Fermentation questions

[MrSmug]

How long should one leave their batch in a primary fermenter? Is this all dependent on the OG and target FG? I see some post about people leaving their batch in the primary for up to a month... ??? Why would anyone need to ferment that long?

That brings me to my second question. When should one rack to a secondary?I've been reading more and more that secondary fermentation isn't really needed... why is that the case? What if my batch requires dry-hopping?

Thanks for you help

 

[scoundrel]

I leave my beer in the fermenter a minimum of 3 weeks for many reasons. Most notably, it gives the yeast time to clean up compounds like diacetyl (buttery flavor) and acetaldehyde (young green apple flavor). Additionally, when you rack, you want as much yeast to settle out as possible so you have nice clear beer. If you bottle and rack too early, you run the risk of bottle bombs.

Most people who leave their beer in primary for a month don't move to secondary. Whether to move to secondary is a big debate with tons of threads discussing it. In my opinion, other than adding fruit or spices, I see no reason to ever go to secondary. As for dry hopping you can do it in primary or in a keg (if you keg).

Here's a link to dry hopping in primary. Hope it helps!

http://www.brewgeeks.com/dry-hop.html

 

[Revvy]

This is the most discussed topic on here, it has been readily covered. I suggest you read THIS thread, it's become the "uber discussion" on this topic thread.

To Secondary or Not? John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff Weigh In .

Many of us leave our beer in primary for a month minimum then bottle.....We find out beers to be clearer and better tasting.

I suggest you read that thread, and experiment for yourself, and make up your own mind.

There's thousands of threads where folks have ventured their opinions, and argued incessantly, but it ultimately comes down to what works for you......

 

[Yooper]

How long should one leave their batch in a primary fermenter? Is this all dependent on the OG and target FG? I see some post about people leaving their batch in the primary for up to a month... ??? Why would anyone need to ferment that long?

That brings me to my second question. When should one rack to a secondary?I've been reading more and more that secondary fermentation isn't really needed... why is that the case? What if my batch requires dry-hopping?

Thanks for you help

The beer should ferment out in 3-5 days (assuming the proper amount of yeast and keeping the beer at the proper temperature). After active fermentation ends and fermentable sugars are gone, the yeast will go back and digest whatever they can, including their own waste products. This takes a day or two. After that, the yeast will clump together and begin to fall to the bottom of the fermenter ("flocculate"). Once the yeast starts to do that, the beer will clear quite a bit. Some yeast strains are more flocculant than others- some will clear the beer in a day or two after fermentation ends, while others will hang around in the beer much longer.

The advantage to leaving the beer in the fermenter a couple of weeks is to give this process enough time so that you can package clear beer.

The purpose of a "secondary" (more properly called a bright tank) is so that the beer can have time to clear and another batch can be started in the fermenter. If you have several fermenters, this isn't an issue and the beer can stay in the fermenter instead of being racked to the clearing vessel. There is nothing magical about racking the beer to make it clear faster- it'll clear when it clears.

A secondary can be useful for adding fruit, oaking, etc. I dryhop right in the fermenter often, so don't usually rack to a second vessel just for dryhopping.

I wouldn't say that "many of us" leave the beer in the fermenter for a month. I think it's a vocal minority that do that. I'd guess that many of us leave the beer in the fermenter for 2-3 weeks. Most of my beers are in the fermenter for 10-14 days.

 

[Revvy]

We need to clarify something for you...Your beer doesn't ferment for x number of weeks. Beer only ferments for as long as the yeast takes, which is usually about a week. And you determine that with 2 consecutive hydro readings.

The rest of the time a beer is left alone is for conditioning whether in extended primary OR a secondary.

You don't CHOOSE how long a beer ferments for.....you let the yeast do it's job...you want a beer to finish fermenting.

Nowadays even many instructions, in BYO magazine, and even some kits suggest a long primary as opposed to using a secondary. So it's pretty obviously that it's not just a "vocal minority." It's become more and more acceptable in the GREATER brewing community beyond this place....We just started arguing/discussing/ and experimenting earlier....Especially after John Palmer and Jamil started discussing it....it's gained wider cachet despite what some folks may wanna argue.

 

[Beer-lord]

I also leave in the primary for 3 weeks minimum, don't use a secondary and carb in bottles or mini keg for 3 weeks then in to the fridge for 2 weeks at about 50 degrees. My beers may not be perfectly clear but I could care less as long as they taste good.

 

[MrSmug]

I'd guess that many of us leave the beer in the fermenter for 2-3 weeks. Most of my beers are in the fermenter for 10-14 days.

Ok this about what I am doing... only 2 batches so far though. The first week is usually so fermentation takes place and the second week is for dry-hopping. Usually at this time I take a gravity reading to make sure its at or close to the target FG. So far so good. Then I bottle about 2 weeks and refrigerate for 2-3 days.

We need to clarify something for you...Your beer doesn't ferment for x number of weeks. Beer only ferments for as long as the yeast takes, which is usually about a week. And you determine that with 2 consecutive hydro readings.

Got it.. I should have possibly named this thread differently.


My initial fermentation takes place in a bucket so I was thinking about getting a 5 gallon better bottle for secondary fermentation, thus freeing up my primary for another batch. I'm guessing I could just purchase another bucket for fermenting but a better bottle just feels like it would be better Thoughts? If I go with the BB, spigot or no spigot?

Thanks again!

 

[fozzman]

Before I brewed my first batch I researched every aspect of home brewing to death. The equipment kit I bought included a fermenting bucket, a carboy, and a bottling bucket. I read a post here on HBT, sorry I can't provide a link, but the jist of the post was 1,2,3. 1 week in the primary, 2 weeks in the secondary, and 3 weeks conditioning in the bottle. I think everything about this hobby comes down to preference. Do what you want to do for you and document what you do so you don't make mistakes more than once. This forum is a wealth of information and knowledge and I appreciate everyone's opinnion. Transferring from primary to secondary to bottling bucket does take a little extra work, but for me it is worth it as I feel my beer comes out better. Best of luck.

 

[unionrdr]

I find that 1,2,3 thing not to be very accurate. Most average brewers' batches will take more than 1 week to finish fermenting & settle out clear. If I'm not adding fruit,oak,etc,I don't botther with secondary at all. Risk of oxygenation,& loosing some beer in the transfers. And 3 weeks in the bottle is minimum for carbonation. But conditioning in my experience takes about 2 weeks longer,depending on the gravity & how dark it is.
But make sure you take good brewing notes so you can refer back to them to compare various things between then & now.

 

[MrSmug]

But make sure you take good brewing notes so you can refer back to them to compare various things between then & now.

Good idea



If using a bucket would you recommend racking to secondary? I've heard that plastic buckets aren't the best for extended periods of time due to the slight chance of oxidation. Apparently BB are supposed to be better?

Basically my question comes down to should I buy a BB for secondary or just buy another fermentation bucket so I can brew 2 batches at the same time?

 

[Revvy]

Good idea



If using a bucket would you recommend racking to secondary? I've heard that plastic buckets aren't the best for extended periods of time due to the slight change of oxidation. Apparently BB are supposed to be better?

Basically my question comes down to should I buy a BB for secondary or just buy another fermentation bucket so I can brew 2 batches at the same time?

I've left beers in buckets for 6 months with no issues.

I really encourage you to read the thread I linked above...all these questions about long primary have been thoroughly gone over in that thread. There's plenty of info. It's the best reference on here about this topic, that's why I linked it.

 

[scoundrel]

But make sure you take good brewing notes so you can refer back to them to compare various things between then & now.

MrSmug you might want to look at google docs for note taking. I track all of my procedures and record all the beer I brew. I find it quite useful since its accessible anywhere and easy to update.

Here's a link to my brew log since I moved away from pen and paper. It has a bunch of tabs with all kinds of stuff.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amm1GT0FcxYsdEpnb09VOGhXbGVhNHNKY01MUndRW mc

Just a thought. Good luck!

 

[khiddy]

That's a pretty sweet brew log, scoundrel!

 

[MrSmug]

That's a pretty sweet brew log, scoundrel!

That is a sweet idea

 

[MrSmug]

I really encourage you to read the thread I linked above...all these questions about long primary have been thoroughly gone over in that thread. There's plenty of info. It's the best reference on here about this topic, that's why I linked it.

I just read through a good portion of that thread. It does mention that racking to a secondary is not necessary UNLESS you are dry-hopping. Why does dry hopping make a difference?

And to re-ask my question. I need to buy something so I can start my second batch while my first is aging. So if I were going for another piece of equipment to primarily dry-hop in for a 2-3 weeks should I get a Better Bottle or just buy another fermenter?

Thanks

 

[tknice]

I just read through a good portion of that thread. It does mention that racking to a secondary is not necessary UNLESS you are dry-hopping. Why does dry hopping make a difference?

And to re-ask my question. I need to buy something so I can start my second batch while my first is aging. So if I were going for another piece of equipment to primarily dry-hop in for a 2-3 weeks should I get a Better Bottle or just buy another fermenter?

Thanks

Heya Mr Smug. Dry hopping is all about adding that burst of aroma to your beer. I dry hop right in primary, generally during the third week. I would say go for a 6gal better bottle for your next equipment purchase. If you have two then you can brew another batch while the first finishes. My advice would be don't worry about secondary for now and get used to using one fermenter for everything.

I use 4 different better bottles for my rotation and none have spigots. The idea sounds cool but it seems like one more place to harbor potential bacteria. Maybe someone else can chime in who has experience with it. An auto siphon works great for racking and the better bottles have a curved bottom that offers a place to rest the cane while siphoning your beer.

Congrats on your first batches and welcome to the addiction!

 

[MrSmug]

Thanks tknice for the advice. Any reason you like your primary fermentation to take place in a BB over say a bucket? I've been using a bucket like in the following setup: http://morebeer.com/view_product/15909/102142/Personal_Home_Brewery_%231_-_Standard

I have to say I've grown quite fond of the spigot but I'm sure siphoning won't be a problem. Also the wide top makes dry-hopping a breeze. How do you rate the BB for dry-hopping?

 

[bschoenb]

I leave my beer in the fermenter a minimum of 3 weeks for many reasons. Most notably, it gives the yeast time to clean up compounds like diacetyl (buttery flavor) and acetaldehyde (young green apple flavor). Additionally, when you rack, you want as much yeast to settle out as possible so you have nice clear beer. If you bottle and rack too early, you run the risk of bottle bombs.

Most people who leave their beer in primary for a month don't move to secondary. Whether to move to secondary is a big debate with tons of threads discussing it. In my opinion, other than adding fruit or spices, I see no reason to ever go to secondary. As for dry hopping you can do it in primary or in a keg (if you keg).

Here's a link to dry hopping in primary. Hope it helps!

http://www.brewgeeks.com/dry-hop.html

+1; 3/3 three weeks in Primary/three weeks in bottle ir Keg. I also dry hop right in the primary

 

[tknice]

Thanks tknice for the advice. Any reason you like your primary fermentation to take place in a BB over say a bucket? I've been using a bucket like in the following setup: http://morebeer.com/view_product/15909/102142/Personal_Home_Brewery_%231_-_Standard

I have to say I've grown quite fond of the spigot but I'm sure siphoning won't be a problem. Also the wide top makes dry-hopping a breeze. How do you rate the BB for dry-hopping?

Sure thing. Buckets are fine and plenty of people like using them. I personally prefer seeing inside and I also feel like the inside stays free of scratches a little better than a bucket because of the way you have to clean them. Scratches in fermenters lead to problems which is why stainless is ultimately the best option.

 

[scoundrel]

That's a pretty sweet brew log, scoundrel!

Thanks alot buddy! It's open source so feel free to copy it for personal use

 

[Jamesbeer]

This had been really helpful. My fermenter is outside. Do you think I should consider bottling earlier than usual to limit the risk of bugs etc getting in?

 

[scoundrel]

This had been really helpful. My fermenter is outside. Do you think I should consider bottling earlier than usual to limit the risk of bugs etc getting in?

Definitely not and can you bring the fermenter inside? Somewhere with stable temps? I'm not being a smart ass, it's just that yeast don't like wild temperature swings.

 

[Jamesbeer]

Definitely not and can you bring the fermenter inside? Somewhere with stable temps? I'm not being a smart ass, it's just that yeast don't like wild temperature swings.

The wife won't allow! And we don't really have room. I'll work on it as I know how important it is to have stable conditions. It's in a cool, protected place, out of the sun and the elements

 

[scoundrel]

The wife won't allow! And we don't really have room. I'll work on it as I know how important it is to have stable conditions. It's in a cool, protected place, out of the sun and the elements

Aww man I'm sorry. I suspect she's not a beer drinker, like my wife. Don't worry about the bugs if you're using an airlock or blowoff. Bottling too early could cause bottle bombs at warm temps and you want to give the yeast time to finish and clean up. Don't worry about secondary, let it sit for a few weeks and when your final gravity is steady... bottle. There's no need to rush and you will thank me when you pour a glass of nice fully fermented clear beer!

 

[Trail]

Oh man. For the first half the thread I didn't understand why everyone was being so mean to the OP. Then I realized that "Mr. Smug" is actually his NAME...

I think the main reason people rack for dryhopping is because getting a bag of hops down the neck of a carboy is a frickin' nightmare.

 

[scoundrel]

I think the main reason people rack for dryhopping is because getting a bag of hops down the neck of a carboy is a frickin' nightmare.

I guess that's true if you use glass. Nightmare for a Better Bottle... 4oz yes. 1oz... not so bad.

 

[MrSmug]

I guess that's true if you use glass. Nightmare for a Better Bottle... 4oz yes. 1oz... not so bad.

Doesn't really make a difference if using pellets though right?

 

[scoundrel]

Doesn't really make a difference if using pellets though right?

You bring up a great point. Typically, pellets suck for dryhopping, but if you put them in a nylon bag, it does reduce the amount of matter that ends up in the beer.

That being said, leaf is still better overall. I must admit though that if I were doing say a Pliny clone and decided to add 6oz of hops , I'd probably use pellets. Bottom line, use leaf when you can and if you only have access to pellets use a nylon bag

 

[Yooper]

I don't bag my hops, leaf or pellet. The pellets are easier, as they sort of fall apart and either float, or fall to the bottom. Either way, you can rack easily simply by starting the siphon in the middle of the fermenter and lowering it as the level of the beer lowers. For leaf hops, they tend to float, but I always manage to suck up a few small pieces. I haven't ever clogged up my siphon, though!

 

[bschoenb]

I don't bag my hops, leaf or pellet. The pellets are easier, as they sort of fall apart and either float, or fall to the bottom. Either way, you can rack easily simply by starting the siphon in the middle of the fermenter and lowering it as the level of the beer lowers. For leaf hops, they tend to float, but I always manage to suck up a few small pieces. I haven't ever clogged up my siphon, though!

+1; I do attach a "NEW" sanitized nylon stocking to the end of my racking hose as well to filter everything suspended out as well. I find this pretty easy