Fermentation heater

[specialkayme]

My fermentation chamber is a chest freezer, using an inkbird, located in my unheated outdoor shed. I built one of those "light bulb in a paint can" heating elements when the temp started getting a little cooler outside. 100w lightbulb. The bulb ended up blowing about a month after I started using it.

While the lightbulb did its job well, there is really no knowing when the bulb will blow. With it being outside, I may not notice for two or three days, and should the nights get too low everything in it could freeze. So I'm looking for something a little more reliable.

For those in that situation, would you recomend using a ceramic bulb: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001D7485W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Or going with an electric space heater: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XDTWN2/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Or a seedling heat pad: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074MPQ3NF/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I would imagine the ceramic bulb would likely blow eventually too, but significantly longer. I'd like to avoid the carboy heaters (https://www.homebrewing.org/product...m=ProductAds&gclid=CKevxeKzoLYCFQSg4Aod2zsA5g), as I sometimes have several batches going in the same chamber, and don't feel comfortable heating one carboy and leaving another to be subject to different variations.

So which option do you think is the most reliable?

 

[SEndorf]

I've tried the lightbulbs. 100W was way to warm for my setup (A fermentation fridge) and the controller was swinging the fridge on.
Then then tried a somewhat larger ceramic heater which again, was way too warm. (Too much wattage)
I've been using a ceramic bud heater for a while which works very well. (Like the one in your link). I also have a computer fan always on (not tied to the controller) to keep the air moving. The key is to move the temp up gradually and resist opening the fridge much to check on it.
I've never used the wrap pads.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Just FYI, the Fermwrap on one carboy will keep the others in the fridge/freezer within a couple degrees Fahrenheit. It still works very well, probably about the same as a heating bulb for multiple carboys.

 

[piojo]

In the yogurt maker I built, I am heating with a 30+ watt metal load resistor. These are common and cheap, and have bodies made of aluminum to radiate head. I'm only driving it at ~10 watts, far short of its rated capacity. This would certainly be enough power to warm a well-insulated chamber, and driving it far below the rated capacity means it won't melt the plastic it's sitting on. (To be safe, I use it together with a fan and don't let it directly touch the insulation.)

How cold is the ambient temperature? I doubt you need more than 10 W.

A 4.7K resistor will give you about 10 watts from a 220 V source, and 1.5K will give you the same for a 120 V source. Of course, you still want to buy a 30-45 watt rated resistor to be sure it dissipates heat fast enough to not become plastic-meltingly hot. Test it first to see how hot it gets. Crimp or solder to attach the wires, then cover with two or more layers of heat shrink tubing. I suggest bolting or gluing it to a heat sink, then glue the heat sink to a piece of wood in a way that allows air exchange. Finally, add strain relief for the power cord (silicone caulk or other rubber glue attaching it to the wood block). It should be impossible to knock the heater over, even if you yank the power cable.

Of course working with mains voltage is a bit dangerous, but anything you would do with a lamp and light bulb is almost as dangerous. And remember, the bigger the resistor, the cooler it will stay while contributing the same amount of heat output.

Edit: if you already have a lightbulb working, an easier fix is to swap the 100 W bulb out for a ≤40 W bulb, then rig up a laptop fan to distribute the heat evenly. But for perfect reliability, go with the load resistor.

This is an example of a high power (rated) 1.5K load resistor:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...-3k-5k-ohm-1-5kR-150kR-2-7kR/32873497377.html

 

[specialkayme]

@piojo I greatly appreciate the response, but I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. What is a metal load resistor, and how is it used as a heating source?

 

[piojo]

@piojo I greatly appreciate the response, but I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. What is a metal load resistor, and how is it used as a heating source?

Let me preface this by saying IMO, this is a bit too dangerous to be a person's introduction to wiring. On the other hand, you've gotta start somewhere. Don't be too brave: there are brave electricians, there are old electricians, but there are no old brave electricians.

I assume what you have is a temperature controller, and it has some sort of built in outlet. When it gets too cold, the outlet is turned on, and whatever you have plugged in (a lamp) turns on and warms everything up. You want to totally replace the lamp with a resistor. A lamp is a kind of resistor. Resistors limit the amount of current that flows, and they get hot. A resistor with a bigger resistance (1.5K means 1.5 kiloohms, also 1500 Ω or 1.5KR) will reduce the current that can flow across it more than a resistor with a smaller resistance (fewer ohms).

The core idea is that instead of the electricity flowing through a lamp, it should flow through a special type of resistor (which is meant to get hot and output a lot of heat). That is the "load resistor". They're metal or ceramic, but metal will transfer the energy away faster without getting as hot. The rest of my post was suggestions on how to connect it and how to attach it so the hot surface doesn't touch anything. Basically, it will be wired directly into a power cord.

If this is Greek to you, just replace your 100 W bulb with the lowest wattage incandescent bulk you can find. Maybe you can find a 20 W bulb intended to dimly light a bathroom, or something meant to be part of a chandelier. I would not use a CFL bulb, though they are in the right watt range (total energy output), because they might put out too much blue light or UV.

 

[mongoose33]

If the issue is providing enough heat to overcome cold ambient temps in your shed, then IMO a seedling mat is unlikely to work well enough. I lived in Greenville NC for a time, and as I recall temps can get well below freezing at times. Of course, if you don't have beer fermenting at those times, it's moot.

If the issue is being aware that the light bulb has blown and the freezer is dropping in temp, maybe a simple alarm? There are cheaper options, but imagine this: an Inkbird set at a temp below which you want an alarm to sound. You plug a light into the heating receptacle of the Inkbird, and the temp probe is placed inside the freezer. When the temp drops below the set point, the Inkbird calls for heat--which turns on the light. Set the light in a location where you can easily see it when it's on, and you have an alarm system. I mention the Inkbird because you may have an extra one lying around (I have five of them, one's a spare), or something similar.

Or maybe something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CQQTYWR/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It's a remote temp monitor with an alarm. Cheaper than an inkbird, lets you monitor the temp remotely, and has an alarm to alert you if you're not paying attention.

 

[specialkayme]

If this is Greek to you, just replace your 100 W bulb with the lowest wattage incandescent bulk you can find.

Ok. I understand what you are referring to. It sounds like something that would be very reliable, and very efficient. But unfortunately not having any experience with it, I don't feel comfortable wiring one myself. Especially when it comes to figuring out the right type of heat sink, soldering, and what not to ensure my shed doesn't burn down.

If I had ANY experience with resistors, this sounds fantastic. Unfortunately I don't.

 

[piojo]

If the issue is just getting a lightbulb to not blow, get your hands on a 240 V bulb and run it on 120 V. It will output less power than the intended watts, and it will probably not burn out in your lifetime. It's just a bit hard to find, and I'm assuming you like in a 120 V country.

Edit: saw you're in North Carolina, which is in 120 V country

 

[specialkayme]

If the issue is providing enough heat to overcome cold ambient temps in your shed, then IMO a seedling mat is unlikely to work well enough. I lived in Greenville NC for a time, and as I recall temps can get well below freezing at times.

This past winter was the coldest I can remember in the area. We actually got close to, if not below zero at some points in time. That was atypical, but possible. Typical is to get down to 25 degrees for a few hours or a few days, but mostly to hover in the upper 30's at the lowest.

My goal is two fold:
1. To use a heat source that is able to overcome ambient temps in an unheated shed, and
2. To use a heat source that is reliable.

I can't afford for the heat source to cut out entirely at any point in time over the winter. If it did, everything would freeze and then likely explode. I usually keep a carboy or two in there at a time, either fermenting or cold conditioning, as well as a case or two of bottles from time to time that are either bottle conditioning, or just being stored in there.

The alarm system doesn't sound like a bad idea, but unfortunately won't be very helpful. I'd have to keep the alarm at my bedside in the event it dies in the middle of the night. Which works fine should the light bulb die at night or on (most) weekends. But if the bulb dies while I"m at work, there's no way to know. It isn't typical for temps to stay below freezing during the day, but it does happen from time to time. Should the bulb die at 4am on a wednesday, and the alarm doesn't go off until 7:30am that morning, I'm already at work. I wouldn't know there is an issue until 6:30pm. At which point there is a good chance the bottles have exploded, if not the carboys as well.

 

[specialkayme]

If the issue is just getting a lightbulb to not blow, get your hands on a 240 V bulb and run it on 120 V.

I wasn't even aware there was a difference. Although I probably should have.

So one of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008YXODY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ?

And do they just screw into a standard 120v bulb socket?

 

[piojo]

I wasn't even aware there was a difference. Although I probably should have.

So one of these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008YXODY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 ?

And do they just screw into a standard 120v bulb socket?

It should work. The wattage and voltage are what I would choose, and it appears to be sized for a normal socket (though it doesn't list any number for the base, it should be E26).

 

[mongoose33]

I can't afford for the heat source to cut out entirely at any point in time over the winter. If it did, everything would freeze and then likely explode. I usually keep a carboy or two in there at a time, either fermenting or cold conditioning, as well as a case or two of bottles from time to time that are either bottle conditioning, or just being stored in there.

I think you're overthinking this a bit, but in the end, we all get to choose what makes us feel most comfortable. A freezer--especially with the thermal mass of fermenting or conditioning beer in it--is not going to plunge below freezing just like that. Even if ambient temps are 0*f. It'll take time, a lot of time. The exception would be if you're cold crashing to, say, 32 and the freezer starts out at 32. But at fermentation temps, it's going to take a long time for something in that freezer to freeze.

The alarm system doesn't sound like a bad idea, but unfortunately won't be very helpful. I'd have to keep the alarm at my bedside in the event it dies in the middle of the night. Which works fine should the light bulb die at night or on (most) weekends. But if the bulb dies while I"m at work, there's no way to know. It isn't typical for temps to stay below freezing during the day, but it does happen from time to time. Should the bulb die at 4am on a wednesday, and the alarm doesn't go off until 7:30am that morning, I'm already at work. I wouldn't know there is an issue until 6:30pm. At which point there is a good chance the bottles have exploded, if not the carboys as well.

That bulb is unlikely to die, period. But, if this is a concern, such as with my sink in my garage (burst pipes there would be a disaster), get a splitter that lets you use two bulbs, and if one goes, the other is still working. Like this: https://www.menards.com/main/lighti...202-c-7491.htm?tid=6013179765539979210&ipos=3

I have such a setup to place under my garage sink if I'm concerned about the garage dropping below freezing. If one bulb burns out, the other keeps working. Perhaps this might be the easiest solution to the problem. If you use an inkbird to control it, having two doesn't matter, it'll just heat up faster.

It sounds like you want a bullet-proof, no monitoring, guaranteed to succeed, system that can never fail. That's virtually impossible. What if the power goes out?

Anyway, good luck. Report back on what you end up doing.

 

[specialkayme]

But at fermentation temps, it's going to take a long time for something in that freezer to freeze.

Sometimes I'm fermenting in the chamber at 68 degrees. Sometimes I'm cold crashing at 34 degrees. Yes, it should take longer than a day for it to drop from 68 degrees to 30 degrees if the ambient temps are 0. But it might take 4 hours for it to go from 34 degrees to 30 degrees with ambient temps at 0.

That bulb is unlikely to die, period.

A normal 120v, 100watt bulb?

I had one die in 30 days. That's why I'm asking. I thought it would last me a year at least. But the 30 days gave me concerns.

Maybe it was a bad bulb. Who knows. But I wouldn't say unlikely to die, period, when one just died.

But, if this is a concern, such as with my sink in my garage (burst pipes there would be a disaster), get a splitter that lets you use two bulbs, and if one goes, the other is still working. Like this: https://www.menards.com/main/lighti...202-c-7491.htm?tid=6013179765539979210&ipos=3

https://www.menards.com/main/lighti...202-c-7491.htm?tid=6013179765539979210&ipos=3

I thought about that, but there were two problems I saw with that method:
1. I can't fit a splitter with two bulbs in the paint can. Going to have to build something bigger, taking up more space. Not impossible, just not sure if it's ideal.
2. Two bulbs will make it heat up much faster. I could go with two 40 watt bulbs which should be better, but it will still cause fast temp changes, which isn't the goal.

Although one 100w bulb I've learned isn't ideal either Ooops.

It sounds like you want a bullet-proof, no monitoring, guaranteed to succeed, system that can never fail. That's virtually impossible. What if the power goes out?

Not foolproof. Just something more reliable.

A heated seedmat, or small space heater, or anything else could die out as well. But I would expect its lifespan to be measured in the form of years, not days or months that the lightbulb had. If any of those die and everything freezes, or if the power dies and everything freezes, or I go on vacation and an alarm goes out and everything freezes, it's part of life. But I don't think its unreasonable to try and prevent those things from happening, especially considering the lightbulb has shown to be less than reliable.

 

[SanPancho]

Get an inline duct fan or a large computer fan with decent wattage. They’re pretty indestructible. Gives off decent amount of heat and equalizes temps in the chamber by moving the air.

Typically all you need is a dc 12v supply for few bucks.

 

[d3track]

I can give you my experience, as my fermentation chamber is also a chest freezer in a detached garage. I only run the heat when I am out there (and I am in Minneapolis, so yeah, cold).

I tried the ceramic heater route, but did not have the best success. What I have now had for the last few years is using one of these and I use it to line the back wall of the freezer to provide heat. I have it connected to an STC-1000, and the probe is bungeed to the fermentor with insulation. With the thermal mass and the thickness of the freezer, temps are surprisingly stable, and I have had no issues with anything freezing, and the wrap has had no trouble providing enough heat.

You also don't mention what your temp controller is how you have the temp prob in there - if it's just dangling in the air, it is likely switching the bulb on and off at a really frequent rate, and would lead to blowing it much sooner.

 

[LittleRiver]

My fermentation chamber is a large-ish wine fridge, big enough to hold one fermenter. I use this heat mat. You can get larger mats, that one fit my chamber.

 

[mongoose33]

Sometimes I'm fermenting in the chamber at 68 degrees. Sometimes I'm cold crashing at 34 degrees. Yes, it should take longer than a day for it to drop from 68 degrees to 30 degrees if the ambient temps are 0. But it might take 4 hours for it to go from 34 degrees to 30 degrees with ambient temps at 0.

Yeah...and if the weather forecast was a low of zero, might you do things differently?

A normal 120v, 100watt bulb?

I had one die in 30 days. That's why I'm asking. I thought it would last me a year at least. But the 30 days gave me concerns.

Maybe it was a bad bulb. Who knows. But I wouldn't say unlikely to die, period, when one just died.

Actually, it is unlikely. But not impossible.

I thought about that, but there were two problems I saw with that method:
1. I can't fit a splitter with two bulbs in the paint can. Going to have to build something bigger, taking up more space. Not impossible, just not sure if it's ideal.

Different container.

2. Two bulbs will make it heat up much faster. I could go with two 40 watt bulbs which should be better, but it will still cause fast temp changes, which isn't the goal.

Two 40-watt bulbs are going to be close in heat produced to that of a 100-watt bulb. Wattage is the key. But the nice thing about redundancy is that a 40-watt bulb, even if one is out, will keep you where you need to be. It just will be on more.

Not foolproof. Just something more reliable.

A heated seedmat, or small space heater, or anything else could die out as well. But I would expect its lifespan to be measured in the form of years, not days or months that the lightbulb had. If any of those die and everything freezes, or if the power dies and everything freezes, or I go on vacation and an alarm goes out and everything freezes, it's part of life. But I don't think its unreasonable to try and prevent those things from happening, especially considering the lightbulb has shown to be less than reliable.

This is why it looks to me like you're overthinking this: first, the worst-case scenario isn't likely to happen. Ever. So the odds of you facing bad results are very low to begin with.

Second, it's just beer, not lifesaving equipment. So you lose a batch--end of the world? Or two batches? It's far more important for me to ensure my sink doesn't freeze in the garage due to potential water damage, water running for days and running up my bill hugely, creating a mess. There's a potential loss there that could be measured in thousands of dollars. Your potential--potential--loss could be measured as....what?

*********

Now, all that said, and said in earnest, sometimes I do things just to see if I can, and not because of fiscal or other needs. And if that's part of what you're trying to do, well, far be it from me to say people shouldn't do that.

I'm working on our doorbells right now. They stopped working. It's a wired system coming off a transformer. Don't know why they stopped, I'm trying to figure it out.

Or I could just buy some wireless doorbells and, in an hour, I've replaced them. But I want to know why they aren't working, and get the system that's in place working again. Might even cost more than just a wireless system. But I want to know why. That's not necessarily fiscally important, but it is for other reasons.

 

[specialkayme]

Get an inline duct fan or a large computer fan with decent wattage.

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Can you suggest or recommend a particular fan?

 

[specialkayme]

What I have now had for the last few years is using one of these and I use it to line the back wall of the freezer to provide heat.

Also interesting. I hadn't thought of putting it against the wall, instead of around a fermenter. That very well may be a good idea.

You also don't mention what your temp controller is how you have the temp prob in there -

Sorry. It's an inkbird, the green one. Don't know what it's called. The probe is taped to the side of one of the fermenters, insulated with two pieces of styrofoam from a disposable cup. Not dangling in the air.

 

[pshankstar]

I have a reptile heating pad in my fermentation chamber which sits in my garage. Now that winter is coming in NY it does struggle to keep the temps up in the high 60's. What I'll do to help with that is place a heating pad in there for the few days I need to bump/keep the temps up. Not ideal but it works.

 

[specialkayme]

Yeah...and if the weather forecast was a low of zero, might you do things differently?

I'd like it if I didn't need to do anything differently.

Actually, it is unlikely. But not impossible.

So what were the odds that the first bulb blew? One in ten? One in a hundred? One in a thousand?

I don't know. It blew though. If I wasn't paying attention to it, and the temps were very low, I'd likely have a mess on my hands. Which gives me little confidence that the next one won't blow. And hence . . . this thread.

We can argue about the statistical probability of a lightbulb blowing, but it doesn't really help either of us in this situation, especially considering that the last one blew.

it's just beer, not lifesaving equipment.

If it was lifesaving equipment, do you think I would have spent $20 to screw a lightbulb into a paint can in the first place? If it was lifesaving equipment, do you think I'd be on a forum taking a poll of other people's opinions? Of course not.

By your analogy, it either matters alot or it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, I shouldn't be asking questions about it.

Well, for me, I'd like to avoid issues. If that involves taking 5 min to ask a question on a forum, I consider that a good use of my time in order to improve my set up. If you think I'm chasing unicorns, I get that. I don't think I am. I think I'm trying to improve things.

And I ferment in glass containers. Is it the end of the world if I lose 3 batches (two carboys, and two cases of beer)? Of course not. But I have probably a few hundred dollars gone (in both fermenters and beer), a mess that takes time to clean up, and broken glass shards all over the place which represents a heath hazard. Or I could spend $20 on a better heater and solve the problem. Seems like a no brainer to me.

And yes, I could not ferment in glass. But assuming I have all glass fermenters now, if I switched out of it I'd have to spend a few hundred dollars replacing all my equipment, hence not much savings anyway. Plus I like glass.

 

[mongoose33]

If it was lifesaving equipment, do you think I would have spent $20 to screw a lightbulb into a paint can in the first place? If it was lifesaving equipment, do you think I'd be on a forum taking a poll of other people's opinions? Of course not.

Yet, from my vantage point, you're treating this as if it IS lifesaving equipment. I just offered a chance to look at it from a different point of view.

By your analogy, it either matters alot or it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, I shouldn't be asking questions about it.

You asked for ideas. Not all are technological--some are based on the fact that often we create constraints in our minds that aren't real out there in the world. You don't have to like those ideas, but I'll be damned if I'll be denigrated for having provided them in good faith.

Sorry I wasted my time here.

 

[specialkayme]

Yet, from my vantage point, you're treating this as if it IS lifesaving equipment.

From your vantage point, as has been expressed to me, if anyone asks any question about anything, they must be treating it like lifesaving equipment.

If you think the question is a waste of time, I understand why you'd tell me it's a waste of time. But if I continue to explain why it matters to me, I don't understand why you would suddenly become insulted or frustrated with the results of the forum.

You asked for ideas. Not all are technological--some are based on the fact that often we create constraints in our minds that aren't real out there in the world.

I recognize your point, and consider it very valid. I just believe you've taken my question to the extreme. Your argument fails as a result of an appeal to extremes (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/30/Appeal-to-Extremes), by connecting a small heater to a medical life saving piece of equipment. If instead, you treat the question as it was posed, as in "what's a more reliable heating element for a fermentation chamber than a lightbulb" the question seems significantly more basic and less controversial.

You don't have to like those ideas, but I'll be damned if I'll be denigrated for having provided them in good faith.

Sorry I wasted my time here.

If you believe this conversation has degraded to the point of you being "denigrated" you very well may have created constraints in your own mind.

I don't believe I've insulted you. If you think you I have, I've either poorly communicated to you, or you've misinterpreted my posts. To either extent, I intended neither. I greatly appreciate all of your contributions, including those placed in this thread.

 

[SanPancho]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Can you suggest or recommend a particular fan?

Unfortunately mine is so old the label isn’t legible. I bought it off ebay. Maybe 10 bucks. Very similar to what folks use to diy stir plates.

The drawback is that it warms the ambient air. If you bought a heat wrap or two you could individually control carboy temps inside same chamber. Don’t recall if you said you did that.

 

[piojo]

@specialkayme I will read responses and reply in more detail later, but if you are getting oscillation, it is probably because your probe is too well insulated. By the time the probe notices a temperature change, the interior space is much warmer than the probe (and the probe's reading will continue to rise, though the heater is shut off). This is exacerbated when you have a strong (100 W) heating element, because the interior temp can rise quickly.

If you added a dimmer and set it to 20% (or whatever is needed), it should also help with oscillation and reliability, but I would want to research the effect of dimmers on bulb life. It's not a given that they prolong life. It needs to be verified. The information is surely available.

 

[Dory Rules]

To stick with your current setup, use 1 or 2 20 watt led bulbs. They never burn out!

 

[Transamguy77]

I didn’t read the whole thread but the my heat you had linked in your original post is what I use and have for the last 5 or 6 years and it works great and I would highly recommend one.

 

[augiedoggy]

Maybe try an appliance bulb? They are supposed to be more resistant and are designed to be used in a fridge or freezer and take the vibration from the door closing.
I use heat tape myself like the small silicone heating pad and strips found on ebay..

 

[piojo]

@specialkayme Do you want to build or buy? They're both good options. There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread (my favorite is the appliance bulb augiedoggy suggested, for being (probably) reasonably priced and requiring almost no work), but if you want to make something that would withstand everything but a lightning strike (also reasonably priced), I could walk you through the few parts and steps needed to use a resistor as a heating element and how to hook it up safely. It's basically like building a lamp, but there is a resistor instead of a socket.