Fermentation Challenge: Melomel vs Grape Wine

[Texconsinite]

Havent made mead in awhile, but would like to try an experiment to test difference in taste of same juice fermented as a Mead vs Wine (with sugar).

I plan to make 2 gallons of each, and monitor the progress and finished results, to see how the honey vs sugar affects taste and fermentation differently. Trying to balance keeping the recipes and processes as close as possible, while ending up with finished products that are drinkable and not rocket fuel.

I have enough juice to use 3qts Welchs Red Grape Juice, 1 qt White Grape Cherry in each recipe

Mead will be Joe's Quick Grape Recipe(ish)
1 gallon Grape Juice
Water to make 2 gallons
4 lb Local SE TX honey from LHBS
EC 1118

For the wine
1 gallon Grape Juice
Water to make 2 gallons
Enough sugar (dissolved in hot water to make invert sugar) = Mead OG
EC 1118

Looking for critiques and suggestions, particularly on the Wine recipe. I want both to be as close to equal as possible, (same OG, pitch temp, etc), but have a few concerns:

-JQG calls for 3 weeks of primary fermentation, then racking onto stabilizers, and a lil juice and honey. Do I do the same (w sugar, juice and stabilizers) for the wine, or let both ferm dry at own rates before transferring, or what?
-Will the same starting OG as Mead be too high for the wine?
-Should I add a little nutrients to these recipes, to account for deficiencies in red grape/white grape cherry vs. concord grape in original JQG recipe? If so, how much?
-How else does wine recipe need to be changed from mead, to accoutn for differences in using Honey vs sugar.


I have an old Wine-making book that uses Honey and sugar interchangeably in several recipes, but just want to make sure before I embark on this journey.

 

[Arpolis]

I say let both ferment dry and wait a good 30 days minimum before transferring to secondary. Then yea rack into stabilizers and add honey and sugar respectfully to a gravity of like 1.06 - 1.01 about 24 hours after racking.

My only critique on the recipe is to not use lalvin ec-1118. Go for Lalvin 71b-1112 but if you like a little pucker in the wine then use Lalvin RC-212. In both cases add nutrients at the recommended dose but split it into 3 part and add the part over the first week. You can look up SNA or staggard nutrient additions for a more scientific look at that.

This is a fun experiment. I did the in concert with another member here on HBT with the skeeter pee lemon wine. And I have to say the skeeter mead was far superior with a little age on it. It will be interesting if a grape wine and a pyment compare the same way side by side.

 

[Texconsinite]

Thanks Arpolis. I have read your Skeeter Mead thread, with much interest, and its kinda what gave me the side-by-side idea for this, so I appreciate your input on my experiment. I am curious however, why do you advise against EC-1118, and how will the 71b-1112 be different?

Admittedly,EC1118 is the only wine yeast I've ever used, because i used it for my first skeeter pee and then my brother gave me 10 packets for my birthday soon after, so its kinda become my default, but I'm open to trying something new! I have been spoiled by the super calm ferments of 1118, routinely cramming 6.25 G of skeeter pee in my 6.5 fermenters without any goo flowing into airlock, so please advise if the 1112 needs more headspace.

When you say "recommended doses" of nutrients, how much do you mean? I'm used to the staggered nutrient additions in Skeeter pee, but have not done that in many other batches.

Thank you for the advice, I plan to let both ferment dry and give 30 days as you suggest, plus the yeast and nutrient bits.

 

[Arpolis]

Ec-1118 is a no fuss easy yeast that is low foam and a very neutral profile. That being said many people flock to it. The caveat is that it is an aggressive yeast, that is why it ferments everything so quickly and easily. Also the neutral profile is exasperated by many flavors being blown out of the airlock due to its aggressive nature.

With meads it is all about the subtle flavors. Honey is very complex with each honey being slightly different based off of the flowers and types of bees making the honey. So a yeast that is aggressive and blowing the volatile aeromatics out of the airlock removes the benefit of the honey.

71b-1112 is a great yeast for young meads and wines that is also low foaming. It retains a lot of those volatile aeromatics and the mead/wine matures quickly. Also 71b is unique in that it metabolizes about 30% of the malic acid in fruits which removes a lot of pucker from a melomel. That is important because a melomel compared to a wine, the melomel has a naturally lower PH because honey's natural PH is 3.5 - 4.0 where as sugar and water is 7.

If you like a little more acid and pucker to a wine then I suggested RC-212 because it does not metabolize malic acid like 71b but it is a superior yeast for both color retention and accentuating berry flavors. It's only downfall is that it is a nutrient hog.

When I mentioned recommended doses of nutrient. I just meant that the packaging on your nutrient supplements usually gives an amount per gallon recommendation on it.

Everyone has their own thought on what kind of nutrients and the amounts that should be. I usually use 1tsp per gallon of (DAP) "the white/clear crystals" and 1/2tsp per gallon energizer "any tan colored nutrient". And I always round up to make measurements easy for splitting into 3 parts and staggering them into the must over the first week.

 

[Texconsinite]

Wow. That's very specific and informative, thanks. 71b def sounds like the yeast i want. LHBS only had combo wine nutrient/energizer (Bruvigor i think) so will follow directions on that, split in 3 over first week. rounded up.

 

[fatbloke]

As an alternative to EC-1118 and its habit of blowing aromatics and VOC's straight out the air lock, and given your location can, I believe, get very warm.....

K1-V1116.

High alcohol, low nutrient requirement, very wide temp range, etc etc........

 

[romitaz]

It's pretty warm in Southeast Texas right now so be careful with 71b. It is my go to yeast but it likes to stay in the 60 to 65 degree range while fermenting. Once it hits about 70 degrees, it goes wild and you could end up with rocket fuel that will take months and months to mellow out. If you have a cool area or a way to keep it around 60 to 65 then I would definitely use 71b. Just my .02

 

[Arpolis]

It's funny I here this a lot about 71b but I don't know how terrible 71b really is with this. Now Lalvin D47 fermented the same way I do 71B... Lol that is some rocket fuel. I could only handle a spiced chai mead in shots when I used D47. My house is well insulated and can keep a 70 - 71 degree temps pretty well. But when I cook in my kitchen where the brews are, it can hit 75 - 77 degrees for a couple hours. And that is air temp not internal carboy temp which will be higher. 71b has been great in these temp ranges lack 1 batch of skeeter pee that is a little harsh on the alcohol but that may be because I under sweetened it and used Splenda. So not sure if that extra bite is from that or fusels. Just my 2c and experience.

 

[romitaz]

I guess, as with everything, experiences will vary. I have had my brewing room get up to 72 twice while fermenting with 71b. Both times I noticed much more airlock activity and the SG dropping at a lightning pace. The must temped out at 74 and the resulting mead burned like bourbon going down. One smoothed out after a few months. The other is still too hot to drink many moons later. This never happens when the room and must stays in the low 60's. Like I said though, this is just in my limited experience. I have often thought of doing a side by side ferment with the only variable being temp to see the results. But alas, I'm lazy.

 

[Arpolis]

I guess, as with everything, experiences will vary. I have had my brewing room get up to 72 twice while fermenting with 71b. Both times I noticed much more airlock activity and the SG dropping at a lightning pace. The must temped out at 74 and the resulting mead burned like bourbon going down. One smoothed out after a few months. The other is still too hot to drink many moons later. This never happens when the room and must stays in the low 60's. Like I said though, this is just in my limited experience. I have often thought of doing a side by side ferment with the only variable being temp to see the results. But alas, I'm lazy.

Hey you are a mead maker. Being lazy is what we do

 

[romitaz]

Exactly!

 

[Texconsinite]

Ok, so i finally got around to starting this over the long weekend. Here are the results so far
Each batch (2 Gallons) contains
3 Quarts Welchs White Grape Cherry 100% Juice
1 Quart Welchs Red Grape Juice
1/2 packet of D47 yeast, rehydrated in little bit of honey juice
Water to make 2 Gallons
Mead contains 4 Pounds local SE-TX honey
Wine contains 6 cups white granulated sugar

7/3
Mead OG-1.117
Wine OG 1.091
Added 1 tsp Super Ferment (Wine Nutrient + Energizer) to each batch

7/5
Added 1 tsp Super Ferment to each Batch

7/8
Mead- SG 1.018
Wine- SG 1.015
Added 1 tsp Super Ferment to each batch

Tasted the hydrometer Samples (of course). They both still taste hot, not surprisingly. but I am hopeful about the taste once they are done.

I staggered the nutrient additions throughout the first week, and now plan to let both ferment dry (at least a few weeks) before transferring and topping off with red grape juice.

 

[Texconsinite]

Ok, Fermentation Challenge is complete. Will post pics of bottled

Mead ended up 15.5%
Wine ended up 12.5%
Backsweetened both with a 1/2 gallon of Red Grape Juice, split between them.
Also backsweetened Mead with 6 oz wildflower honey.
Before sweetening, Wine was a lite grape flavor, with cherry note, overall just ok. After adding juice, it pumped up the grape flavor. Id call it semisweet, i didnt backsweeten with sugar, didnt want to make it syrupy.

The mead is hard to judge right away. It tastes hot, of course, but honey flavor definitiely still present, and with time i think itll be good. Comparing it to Joes Quick Grape, the grape flavor is less strong, but the slow and thorough fermentation seems to have lessened the rocket fuel taste of most of my meads on bottling day.

Im mixed on the white grape cherry juice. It has less of a strong flavor than concord grape juice, and the cherry is more of a note than a dominant flavro. Even with the red Grape juice added, this will be different than what ive done before. The real test will be once is had a few months to age.

The yeast i used D47, was impressive in how fully it was able to ferment both the mead and wine down so low.