Ferment with dirt???

[CorporateHippie]

I love brewing outside the box and I have fun challenging myself with off-the wall techniques. Recently I have been wanting to attempt a beer fermented with dirt. I was thinking of collecting some soil from somewhere less traveled, maybe like the side of a mountainous hill. I will probably just step it up in a starter and smell whatever it is that grows to see if it is worth my time. Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions or even experience?

 

[JoshuaW]

Its going to have bacteria, definitely. It will probably also have some wild yeast. It could be interesting, or it could be disgusting. There is only one way to find out, and I think you know what you have to do... Report back when you are finished!

 

[MaxStout]

Watch out for certain nasties found in some soils.

Still...it couldn't be as gross as some off-the-wall brews I've heard of, like beard funk fermentations, etc. Yuk.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Sounds interesting! Just don't know how well using dirt will worked compared to the traditional route. Never tried it but there is some great info on it from this very site! https://www.homebrewtalk.com/collecting-wild-yeast-simplified.html!
Good luck and keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Owly055]

I would suggest using things like fruit from a tree or bush, or some tree bark, leaves, and other things like that as opposed to just dirt.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

Mouse Poop Stout.


Has a nice ring to it.

 

[ColoHox]

Like @MaxStout said, there are pathogens in the soil. People always say that nothing that grows in beer can make you sick, but in this case, you might actually make a Diarrhea-dunkel.

Survival of foodborne pathogens in beer (many of these pathogens are in the soil as well)

Another study about Growth and survival of pathogens

 

[CorporateHippie]

Like @MaxStout said, there are pathogens in the soil. People always say that nothing that grows in beer can make you sick, but in this case, you might actually make a Diarrhea-dunkel.

Survival of foodborne pathogens in beer (many of these pathogens are in the soil as well)

Another study about Growth and survival of pathogens

An interesting read. do you know if any of these pathogens would give off a foul odor? Would I be able to detect something in just the week of starter trials? I've done stuff like this before with open air collections but never with a solid. I have had a couple foul smelling starters that just get dumped . Also, I am less concerned with soil from a hard to reach place like I intend to collect from. My thought was an area that would be completely unwalked on and something that would be hard even for an animal to urinate near, but exposed to air.

 

[shetc]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=525451

 

[Agate]

I'd be concerned with clostridium botulinum in the soil. Could be mitigated with pH adjustment, but still...

 

[bierhund]

Listeria is another common pathogen in dirt (lettuce, melons, spinach, etc...).

 

[MeanDeuce]

mmm anthrax ale

 

[agrazela]

Listeria is another common pathogen in dirt (lettuce, melons, spinach, etc...).

Listerale!

 

[bucketnative]

Google the term "Fecal Veneer". Possibly more true of the great outdoors. If you could isolate specific colonies, and know what you have, it could be interesting. But, same as I wouldn't drink that cold mountain stream without a 0.2-um filter, I'm not sure I would ferment with a starter from dirt.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Nematode Stout!

 

[Microscopist]

I'd be concerned with clostridium botulinum in the soil. Could be mitigated with pH adjustment, but still...

That's probably the biggest risk and it's almost certainly present it also won't produce an off odour.

 

[Fedora]

I ate more mud pies as a kid than I could count. I would drink it. Well, as long as you drank it first.

 

[theheroguy]

I ate more mud pies as a kid than I could count. I would drink it. Well, as long as you drank it first.

Did you give the pathogens in there a stable environment with lots of resources to reproduce for weeks in before eating them?

 

[Aristotelian]

Like @MaxStout said, there are pathogens in the soil. People always say that nothing that grows in beer can make you sick, but in this case, you might actually make a Diarrhea-dunkel.

Don't give this guy any ideas!

 

[theheroguy]

Like @MaxStout said, there are pathogens in the soil. People always say that nothing that grows in beer can make you sick, but in this case, you might actually make a Diarrhea-dunkel.

Survival of foodborne pathogens in beer (many of these pathogens are in the soil as well)

Another study about Growth and survival of pathogens

It is important to note that this about pathogens which are introduced after fermentation has been completed.

 

[CorporateHippie]

I'm not a micro biologist but I have access to lab equipment. I think I could identify most of what was in there but not all of it. The info here does have me less encouraged to try this though.

 

[soccerdad]

Most cultures have some form of edible earth .. kaolin mostly for north Americans

 

[GHBWNY]

Don't know if this has been mentioned in the descriptions of other things, but I would also be concerned about certain parasites --- any variation of intestinal worm which habitually infest the soil --- that might not be killed by fermentation, or worse, propagate under warm, fluid conditions.

I wouldn't chance it.

 

[ColoHox]

It is important to note that this about pathogens which are introduced after fermentation has been completed.

Truly, and many pathogens still survived those hostile conditions. Even worse is that the OP wanted to grow potentially pathogenic organisms in a nutrient rich environment without any inhibitory alcohol or hops.

 

[ColoHox]

That's probably the biggest risk and it's almost certainly present it also won't produce an off odour.

Spores of C. botulinum are likely present. The vegetative cells are anaerobic though, so a starter is not an ideal place for growth. And, FWIW, most Clostridia produce a foul odor in culture.

 

[Owly055]

Don't know if this has been mentioned in the descriptions of other things, but I would also be concerned about certain parasites --- any variation of intestinal worm which habitually infest the soil --- that might not be killed by fermentation, or worse, propagate under warm, fluid conditions.

I wouldn't chance it.

This seems an absurd concern as I don't know of many organisms that can survive an hour boil.

 

[Agate]

He's talking about inoculating wort with bacteria cultured from dirt, not boiling the dirt as a component of the wort. And C. Botulinum spores survive boiling temperatures. A starter is aerobic, but fermenting beer is anaerobic fairly soon, and depending on how quickly pH drops and alcohol increases there's a very real risk of botulism toxin growing in there. Even when the alcohol kills the bacteria, the toxin will persist. Proceed with caution...

 

[JonM]

Risk vs reward. Possibility of developing and ingesting one of the most potent toxins on the planet vs ... what benefit exactly?

ETA: Not "one of," but THE deadliest toxin on the planet.

 

[Agate]

It is kind of a cool idea to isolate some yeast or bacteria from the soil. And you can probably do it safely with good practices and techniques. But unless you know what you're doing, you have to factor in the risks.

But you also have to ask yourself, why would yeast and bacteria that have the potential to make yummy beer from sugars in fruits and grains, be hanging around in dirt in sufficient population to be grown and isolated? Things that live on dead plant and animal materials will be living there, but not necessarily sugar-loving alcohol-producing microbes. Just something to consider.

 

[CorporateHippie]

But you also have to ask yourself, why would yeast and bacteria that have the potential to make yummy beer from sugars in fruits and grains, be hanging around in dirt in sufficient population to be grown and isolated?

True, however, we have to all believe that there are still viable and interesting cultures yet to be isolated.

However, I am convinced that I won't be moving forward with this idea unless I enlist the help of some microbiologists that I know who could help with microscope identification.

 

[GHBWNY]

This seems an absurd concern as I don't know of many organisms that can survive an hour boil.

I don't think the OP is putting the dirt in the boil. His first post indicates he wants to ferment a beer using dirt (instead of a traditional yeast). He talks about making a starter with dirt, hoping to see if any microorganisms residing in the dirt are capable of creating a fermentation.

To your point, if the dirt were added to the boil, yes it would be less concerning to consider the danger of parasites, etc.. But it sounds like his plan is to (pitch) the dirt-starter to the wort post-boil, which to me underscores the concern over something nasty ending up in the theoretical final product.

 

[Owly055]

I don't think the OP is putting the dirt in the boil. His first post indicates he wants to ferment a beer using dirt (instead of a traditional yeast). He talks about making a starter with dirt, hoping to see if any microorganisms residing in the dirt are capable of creating a fermentation.

To your point, if the dirt were added to the boil, yes it would be less concerning to consider the danger of parasites, etc.. But it sounds like his plan is to (pitch) the dirt-starter to the wort post-boil, which to me underscores the concern over something nasty ending up in the theoretical final product.

I was having a "senior moment"............

 

[Fedora]

Corporate Hippy, apparently the consensus is no, but I'd just like to point out the irony in your sig line.

Worse case scenario. Ha.
Cheers, brother.

 

[GHBWNY]

I was having a "senior moment"............

If it weren't for "senior moments", I'd have no moments at all!