Ferment and serve in corny - sediment options?

[Cider Wraith]

Just had a thought.
Cut 3” off dip tube. Put 4” tubin, sliding it to the height you want to leave and make an adjustable end

Nice!

 

[Bassman2003]

... can't imagine anyone is still reading - ain't pretty but there's purging serving ... surprisingly got enough pressure in serving to have bubbles return in just a minute or so

View attachment 779938

Looks good. The only improvement would be EVA barrier tubing as O2 seeps through the old style tubing.

 

[Cider Wraith]

I will start by saying, the professional or time tested proper way to make fermented beverages is to remove all sediment throughout the process. Hands down, this is the best way to make these beverages.

This. However you do it, this

Two ciders refigerated and served directly in corny fermenters with full-sized dips. Cold and motion free. Initial pour, highly sediment charged. Remainder of the pours that day, clear. Following day, sediment blast just like the first pour, then clear. Day after that, sediment blast just like the first pour

Sediment is resettling ... sediment can't be in serving

 

[Cider Wraith]

Looks good. The only improvement would be EVA barrier tubing as O2 seeps through the old style tubing.

Oh yes. I'm working on it. I posted a new thread talking about lines and transfers but yeah, I'm gonna' get with the program

 

[Bassman2003]

It is a great hobby!

 

[BongoYodeler]

Oh yes. I'm working on it. I posted a new thread talking about lines and transfers but yeah, I'm gonna' get with the program

That's great. I switched to Duotight fittings and Eva Barrier tubing and would never go back. Quick, simple, and better.

 

[Cider Wraith]

Drawing from the top let's you have the first glass without sediment

... yes ...

they do a good job draining the keg

... can't wrap my simple mind around how do they do not ultimately crash into the sediment?

(thanks for the reply!)

 

[balrog]

First sign of sediment is the end of pouring. Or, if desperate, the end of pouring clear.

 

[Cider Wraith]

Or, if desperate, the end of pouring clear

 

[Cider Wraith]

End of a long day went to pour a few ounces and got the usual "next day" sediment blast. As glass was filling, in small fractions of a second, thinking like, dang, what do I do? ... just fill up the glass with the sediment and drink it, or stop, or what? Got a sizable sediment blast so wound up pouring out maybe four ounces of good drink. Another four ounces of good drink lost

Maybe someone, someday will find this useful. Note -

For ciders (at least), with fine sediment in serving, the sediment continues to resettle, resettle, resettle, resettle and apparently will do so until there are pints of wasted beverage. And, although I wish all possible good fortune to the Church of the Floaters that floater is eventually going to crash into the sediment

Sediment simply must be proactively eliminated.

Thanks again @Bassman2003 & @Murph4231

 

[balrog]

that floater is eventually going to crash into the sediment

But until the end you have clear pours.

Just sayin.

 

[Bassman2003]

If you have a lot of sediment, it sounds like you might benefit from some more time or a 2nd vessel. Seems like a process could be created to get it clear before you are serving/drinking.

 

[Cider Wraith]

I don't think I have an unusually large amount of sediment.... I think my ferments create an unusually small amount of sediment... it's just that cider sediment is highly subject to resettling .... seems to be completely resettling overnight

EDIT - but serving in the ferm was just a goofy effort... won't do it again... and I can report that what's going to work is a slightly trimmed dip in fermenter to be used to transfer to a serving ... kind folks, there's just no way around dip trimming and transfer out of ferm to serv

 

[Cider Wraith]

... fun stuff - nothing new here just a journal type entry ...

This started out as an experiment and the results are in - at least for ciders as I make them it's been observed that as a keg is served sediment will continue to resettle around the dip tube. This tulip glass (which looks larger than it is) was poured halfway three days ago and received the usual "first pour of-the-day blast". Rather than throw it out, put into the fridge to settle

This morning poured contents off the sediment. What observation shows is that if a few ounces are poured one time each day the same amount of sediment will be produced each day until either the sediment is eliminated from the keg or the keg is emptied of liquid. So cider sediment is efficiently resettling around the dip tube again and again and again. That's the answer to the original goofy experiment

Floating dip tube? Sure, great. However seems to me, you're just choosing to get your sediment hit at the end and not every day you pour. But, if it can be done, I'd rather eliminate original fermentation sediment, and it can be done. I wouldn't deceive myself and expect that if doing a transfer from ferm to serving and letting it sit for six months that there still wouldn't be some additional settling - some yes, but not a mountain, not a blast with every "first pour of-the-day", and it wouldn't be the original fermentation sediment. Finally, I worry about what would happen to a flexible dip tube left in an alcohol based beverage for half a year. Would it lose flexibility and become frozen into position? Could it kink? Could the float fail? Could a synthetic material leach into the beverage? And anyway, sooner or later it's going to crash into the sediment

Plan is to designate two kegs to be fermenters. Received these two relatively rough condition cornys six years ago (and they're the only two this color). And as a testament to how well these vessels are made, one of these has a noticeably bent post and at the time the post was bent the dip tube was also bent

So two cornys ferms, one with an already bent dip I'll trim, and heck, dips are only $20 so it's not the end of the world whatever happens. Thinking I'll start at about 3/8" and there'll be experimentation to find the compromise length. And what works for what I typically make might not work for someone else. Then of course do @Bassman2003 's procedure transferring out of ferm to serv - which will be my procedure here forward. Then I'd have a conventionally configured corny, without the fermentation based sediment, nothing unpredictable that could fail, ready to consume or store

....thanks everyone for previous replies and insights -

 

[balrog]

And what happens to the sediment compaction if you let the ferm and serve keg sit, cold, for 6-8 weeks before serving at all?

 

[Cider Wraith]

Good question. In an earlier post I asked what effect would time and temperature have? And, for those that use different types of ingredients including hops, does that contribute to the sediment "setting up"?

 

[balrog]

As i understand it, there's floc-ability and compactability, two different things, with yeast.
The first is how well it falls out when finished fermenting and the second is how tightly it'll adhere to itself once fallen out. Most of the powdery strains are not good at either. But time does wonders, and colder temp helps.

 

[BongoYodeler]

@Cider Wraith How much cider is left in your keg at the point you're drawing sediment? I have to ask, "how far are you willing to go to get that last pour?" Personally I'm beer only, and I have several kegs going at once, so when one of my kegs gets down under a pint or so, trying to squeeze out every last drop of clear nectar is just not worth it to me if I have to take extreme measures to get it. Now with that said, most times when I get to that point and I open up the keg I'm quite surprised to find very little beer left inside. But if any I call it the cost of doing business. I brew, so I'll just brew more. Don't get me wrong, I want sediment-free beer for as long as I can get it.....but without worrying too much about the getting the very last drop of clear beer out of my keg.

* I just read @balrog post about the type of yeast and how it flocs out. Makes sense. I don't know anything about yeast used for ciders so my post may be irrelevant to the last few posts.

 

[balrog]

I do Apfelwein, just apple juice and Montrachet (now called something else) yeast.
I keg it.
By one month, every single pour is crystal clear. And I don't always keep it colder than cellar temp.

 

[Cider Wraith]

... as always appreciative of comments ...

Dang it, what a numbskull, did the exact same thing again ...

.... and if anyone is still reading the FYI the keg kicked while fire-hosing out sediment ... everything is different over space and time but in this case liquid was exhausted before it could transport out all the sediment

EDIT - after settling for two hours, yowza -

EDIT - swinging by Lowes tomorrow for a miniature pipe cutter

 

[Cider Wraith]

As i understand it, there's floc-ability and compactability, two different things, with yeast.
The first is how well it falls out when finished fermenting and the second is how tightly it'll adhere to itself once fallen out.

Here's what's crossing my mind

https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-liquefaction

 

[Cider Wraith]

How much cider is left in your keg at the point you're drawing sediment?

I understand this is a rhetorical question but i guess the practical answer is to just pop a top and do a cane auto-siphon and see what's left and then make a seat-of-the-pants cutting decision

 

[Cider Wraith]

Your transfer after fermentation will be just elevating the fermenter keg and hooking up gas to gas jumpers and liquid to liquid jumpers and let gravity to the work

Greetings @Bassman2003 ... odd, doesn't seem to be a lot of material on corny-to-corny transfers

Wondering how do you start gravity feed from ferm to serv? I'm thinking with ferm elevated well above serv make liquid-to-liquid connection, then bump ferm with C02 tank starting siphon, then connect gas-to-gas and gravity takes over.

Sounds about right? Any words of wisdom?

 

[Bassman2003]

You start from a place of equal pressure in both containers. This is why one hooks up the flow of fermentation gas through the keg. You get free pure CO2 and if your spunding valve is after the keg, both containers will have the same pressure when you are ready to transfer. Then decrease the pressure on the serving keg and the liquid will flow via gravity nice slowly. If you let a lot of pressure out it will flow faster but it is not wise to transfer carbonated liquids quickly. It also helps to unhook the serving keg a few hours before transfer and put it in a fridge if it is warmer than the fermenter. Hope this helps.

 

[Brewhunter]

... looks like little interest in this thread, hm ... thanks for those that replied! - I'm still trying to understand how big fermenting in cornys is ... any additional thoughts appreciated

I have a recent interest in corny fermentation as well, and also no chill, although have not yet tried it. still researching it, but moving toward it soon. Thanks for your post