Fellow homebrewers, meet my new beer engine . . .

[Biermann]

Indeed. I don't know if you recall or not, but not too far back, there was an article in the Washington paper about a local beer club started by two area doctors from OSF. . .well, if you read the article, I am one of the doctors featured in that article. We are going to have our first homebrew night in August. Let me know if you are interested. We could use as many brewers as possible.

 

[Biermann]

Oh, and I am NOT a member of the homebrew club. . . :cross: I am the founder of the Beer Club. . .*L*We deal almost exclusively with commercial beer. . .

 

[sonvolt]

Yeah! I do remember that article!!! Great stuff! I would love to make a meeting. Give me some details.

 

[Biermann]

We've got a meeting scheduled for the 29th this month. Theme is American Pale Ales. We use Friar Tuck's as our supplier, and establish a "beer registry" for the meeting.

 

[sirsloop]

If you have a keg and c02 tank, why not just get a traditional tap and let the c02 do the work for you? Costs of co2?

 

[sonvolt]

If you have a keg and c02 tank, why not just get a traditional tap and let the c02 do the work for you? Costs of co2?

Certainly not! This is a purist issue - a fascination with real ale/cask conditioned ale. Read the pdf that Brewpastor posted regarding CAMRA and Cellarsmanship. There is a tradition surrounding real ale in which any addition of CO2 is seen as a departure from an authentically historical drinking experience.

If there is a brewpub close to you which serves it, try a cask conditioned ale served from a real beer engine - you will definitely notice the taste difference.

 

[sirsloop]

There is a local brewpub in Princeton that serves porters and stouts out of a hand pump. I cant really make a comparison because they dont have a CO2 only version to compare with.

As far as being purist, drinking forced carbonated beer (or carbonated at all) thats anything but room temperature seems to be a contradiction to the goal! They certianly didnt have fridges or means to make ice other than what nature provided back in the day. Not tryin to be mean or anything... just your response kinda seemed out of place, considering.

 

[budbo]

There is a tradition surrounding real ale in which any addition of CO2 is seen as a departure from an authentically historical drinking experience.

If you really want to get "purist" you can't use any plastic or stainless in the process, the wort should go from a copper fermenter, into an oak cask with a wooden plug valve for ageing touching nothing plastic or stainless.

 

[sonvolt]

There is a local brewpub in Princeton that serves porters and stouts out of a hand pump. I cant really make a comparison because they dont have a CO2 only version to compare with.

As far as being purist, drinking forced carbonated beer (or carbonated at all) thats anything but room temperature seems to be a contradiction to the goal! They certianly didnt have fridges or means to make ice other than what nature provided back in the day. Not tryin to be mean or anything... just your response kinda seemed out of place, considering.

But there is a difference between a beer that is carbonated and dispensed using a tank of pressurized CO2 and serving a beer that is naturally conditioned and serving it without using CO2 to push it into the glass.

I am no real ale evangelist or CAMRANazi, and I could really care less about how you feel beer should be enjoyed. I simply made a beer engine so that I could enjoy a real ale in a manner that real ale enthusiasts prefer it to be served.

If you are truly interested in the kind of beer and serving methods that I am discussing in this thread, perhaps you should look outside this thread for information regarding the tradition of beer engines and real, cask conditioned ale. Better yet, go ask the owner of the brewpub you reference why he/she chooses to serve stouts off of the beer engine rather than force it with CO2, since this is your question and my answer does not seem to satisfy you.

Additionally, when one refers to enjoying an historical tradition, that could mean any number of things. Traditionally, cask conditioned ale is not served at room temperature but at cellar temps around 50 degrees. My post above explains that I like it a bit cooler.

Beer engines and cask conditioned ale is not for everyone - obviously. You should feel fine pulling beers off of your tap with your CO2. For me, however, I enjoy richer and more meaningful "sessions" and pulling drafts off of my beer engine gives me that.

Sorry that you don't "get it."

 

[sirsloop]

I really tried not making my response now sound snitty, picky, and snobby....

If you like your beer 50 degrees, force carbonated, and pulled through a manual spicket...dude...more power to you. We ALL homebrew cause we find store bought beer less than satisfying...for whatever reason that is

 

[sonvolt]

If you like your beer 50 degrees, force carbonated, and pulled through a manual spicket...dude...more power to you.

The point in all of this is that I do NOT like my beer force carbonated . . .

. . . and the word you are looking for is "spigot" . . .

 

[Brewpastor]

I realize, even if I don't understand why, some people don't find cellar temperature, gently carbonated beer appealling. But I really believe most folks if given a GOOD draft of real ale would see the light. I wish there was more real ale available in the US. But until that day, I have my engines and the means to brew all the beer I could ever want. Life is good.

Sonvolt, you enjoying the CAMRA guide?

 

[sonvolt]

Sonvolt, you enjoying the CAMRA guide?

I am! What a great read. Thanks for the post. I am only a few pages into a close read, but I have browsed it well.

 

[Brewpastor]

It is one of those thing I pull out from time to time and read, picking up some tid bit each time.

 

[Leaky barrel]

Wow! Please post instructions to build that. I have to have one of those!

 

[Leaky barrel]

Nevermind i just saw you instructions to build. I got so excited i posted that request before reading the whole thread. You're a genious, somehow the idea of real ale at home has never occured to me. I love it!

 

[mysterio]

I realize, even if I don't understand why, some people don't find cellar temperature, gently carbonated beer appealling. But I really believe most folks if given a GOOD draft of real ale would see the light.

Absolutely!

It's not even one of those things that you have to 'develop a taste for' or train yourself to like it, it's just naturally very tasty. I think one of the problems is there's just as much, if not more, bad cask ale out there as there is good cask ale.

 

[lethian]

There isnt any reason why this hand pump wounldnt work with a refriderator. Somthing like that Sanyo that people are converting into kegerators. Maybe get a tempature control device to keep the temp around 58 degrees?

 

[NEPABREWER]

alright mates - just returned from the UK and I must say real ale is where its at! I will be building my engine as soon as I am able. Those Brits sure know how to leave a good thing alone and enjoy it. I must say it is different and absolutely not ice cold silver bullet, but it is unique, rich and satisfying. Cheers.

 

[sonvolt]

alright mates - just returned from the UK and I must say real ale is where its at! I will be building my engine as soon as I am able. Those Brits sure know how to leave a good thing alone and enjoy it. I must say it is different and absolutely not ice cold silver bullet, but it is unique, rich and satisfying. Cheers.

I am jealous!! I cannot wait to have one of my favorite styles of ale in its native environment. So . . so jealous!

 

[Some Hasbeen]

I had the joy of experiencing "real ale" in the UK about 5 years ago and they truly taste amazing. I also think that a force-carbed ale pumped out of my kegerator in my back room also tastes amazing. I think comparing them, however, is a little unfair. It's like comparing two different kinds of beer. You'd never compare a stout with a Miller Lite because they are too different to even compare. I think the cask ale is awesome but a completely different animal than a force carbed ale. I guess what I'm trying to say is you can like both and I don't see any inherent contradiction whatsoever. It seems somewhere in this thread a line was drawn where you're either a real ale fan or a forced carb fan. I, personally, am both.

By the way, that beer engine is awesome. To make a piece of equipment that would allow me to experience the draught beer again may be worth all the dirty looks my wife would give me as I was making it. Well done.

 

[lustreking]

Would anyone be able to scan the two beer engine articles from byo? I desperately want to build one (and sonvolt's looks fantastic), but I only started subscribing to byo early this year.

Thanks, dreaming of cask conditioned ale....

-S

 

[sonvolt]

Would anyone be able to scan the two beer engine articles from byo? I desperately want to build one (and sonvolt's looks fantastic), but I only started subscribing to byo early this year.

Thanks, dreaming of cask conditioned ale....

-S

I'll get those articles to you. Some kind people from this board sent them to me, and I am ready to spread the wealth.

Good luck with your beer engine, and let me know if you have any questions. I won't be able to forward those articles until this evening as they are on my home computer.

 

[Pumbaa]

Think ya may be abler to do a how to write up and post it over here?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10277

 

[Todd]

I'm curious how well it ages after you begin to serve. I would imagine most pubs go through a cask pretty fast. It might take me a couple months to drink a keg. Would it still be good for that long?

 

[sonvolt]

I'm curious how well it ages after you begin to serve. I would imagine most pubs go through a cask pretty fast. It might take me a couple months to drink a keg. Would it still be good for that long?

This is a great question. If I were to answer using CAMRA's beer ethics, I would tell you that the resulting oxidation of a beer over the days after it is tapped contribute to the complexity and that such oxidations should be enjoyed.

You and I both know that such oxidation may be ok after a few days, but after the amount of time that it takes me to kill 5 gallons, such oxidation would be detrimental.

Here is what I do. I tap the keg with my beer engine and pull the release valve on my keg all the way off. So, oxygen is entering the keg as I pull the beer through the engine. After a night of drinking, I unhook my beer engine and force some CO2 into the keg . . . bleeding it off so that I know that my beer is covered with a blanket of CO2 at a very low pressure. This limits any oxidation.

I just finished two fo the first beers that I kegged and used with the beer engine. After about 3 months or so, the beer had definitely changed . . . but it was not badly oxidized. In fact, the last draft of a Pale Ale I did was the best draft of the whole keg.

Hope this helps

 

[lustreking]

My pump should arrive on Tuesday! I wish I had time to brew this weekend.

Sonvolt, how much priming sugar did you use?

-S

 

[sonvolt]

My pump should arrive on Tuesday! I wish I had time to brew this weekend.

Sonvolt, how much priming sugar did you use?

-S

Lustre,

Did your engine come together ok?

BTW, I used about half the sugar I would normally use for bottling conditioning. However, on one of those kegs, I screwed up and added the normal amount (1.25 cups of DME). I couldn't tell much of a difference. You can always vent, etc. if you overcarb.

 

[lustreking]

Lustre,
Did your engine come together ok?

BTW, I used about half the sugar I would normally use for bottling conditioning. However, on one of those kegs, I screwed up and added the normal amount (1.25 cups of DME). I couldn't tell much of a difference. You can always vent, etc. if you overcarb.

I completely ripped off your cooler design. In fact, I even used the same exact cooler, but mine's red and old and beat up.

It turned out very well. I served it at a party last weekend and it was pretty well received. I wish I had put it in the fridge in advance to get the yeast to drop out a little better. I think I used a quarter cup of corn sugar. I'll probably use more next time, as well as a more flocculant yeast.

I have a question about the pump. Are you able to get all the fluid out of it? I pumped it until it's dry, and left the handle pulled forward (labeled drain) but I can still hear the water inside it.

I have an observation about the pump. I like how on the back of the packaging they say driil a 1 7/8" hole.... Nobody sells a 1 7/8" hole saw!



Thanks again!
-S

 

[sonvolt]

I hear you! I had to use a file to cut the whole to the right size.

As for getting water out - it never gets completely dry. After using it, I run a lot of water and some sanitizer through it (usually happens the next day). Then, before using it, i do the same again.

More of a novelty/special event use for me than an everyday/every weekend kind of thing.