Fellow homebrewers, meet my new beer engine . . .

[commonlaw]

Hey commonlaw, how did the propane regulator work out for you. I'm in the midst of setting up something very similar, and if you've got some lessons learned to share, it'd be appreciated.

sorry for the late reply. Propane regulator seems to be working great (don't use a natural gas regulator as it does not work). Beer has been staying fresh and it doesn't get pushed out of the rocket pump, so not much to complain about. I'm still playing with some things, like what happens if I introduce a little oxygen in the beginning. But the propane regulator definitely seems like the poor man's cask breather. I love having a pseudo cask beer on tap all the time.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions. Build was really easy--just need to figure out what thread fittings you need to get it all connected (and get a regulator that doesn't have the propane part screwed on already--I bought one and for the life of me I could not get it off--had to spend another $20 for a new regulator with no fittings). I have a co2 tank feeding my single tap handle, another keg with a picnic tap, and the handpump through a 3-way manifold. I can pump up the co2 to force carb and the propane regulator still does its thing.

 

[FrickD]

commonlaw, Are you keeping all 3 kegs at the same temp inside the fridge? Or is your hand pumped beer outside the fridge. I'm thinking of doing a similar setup to yours but I'm not sure on the best way to keep my "cask" corny or polypin at optimum temperature. Thanks.

 

[commonlaw]

commonlaw, Are you keeping all 3 kegs at the same temp inside the fridge? Or is your hand pumped beer outside the fridge. I'm thinking of doing a similar setup to yours but I'm not sure on the best way to keep my "cask" corny or polypin at optimum temperature. Thanks.

All three are in the fridge. It's not quite ideal but when I'm serving other ales I don't mind keeping their temperature somewhat high (~48-52F) too. It's a bit harder when I have a lager on tap, but even then I probably keep the temp in the mid 40s. Generally I think 50-52 is the perfect temp for your basic English cask ale (bitter, mild etc). I would not want my cask outside where it could really warm up, but if your environment stays in the low or mid 50s it could be good. Mine is in a garage where it could easily get into the 60s, 70s or even hotter in the summer, which is just way too warm. I would just shoot for a compromise in temps. As long as it's not ice cold the cask will be good, and it will warm up as you drink it.

 

[14thstreet]

commonlaw, could you describe the steps you're taking to allow oxygen into your system? I'm not too familiar with kegging but have all the parts and want to figure in real-ale if I can. I'm on the fence about getting the pump you have, is that required?

 

[commonlaw]

commonlaw, could you describe the steps you're taking to allow oxygen into your system? I'm not too familiar with kegging but have all the parts and want to figure in real-ale if I can. I'm on the fence about getting the pump you have, is that required?

Sure thing. It's actually pretty simple. I'm using regular soda/homebrew corny kegs. They have an in and out connector that hooks up to quick disconnects. You can read all about this stuff in the kegging FAQ. You carbonate the keg naturally with sugar. After 2-3 weeks, I chill it then vent it (let the excess co2 out). The beer out connector goes to the RV pump/ghetto beer engine as described in this thread.

The gas in also has a quick disconnect on it. At first I just hooked that up to one of the manifolds of my co2 and stuck a propane regulator in the line. This allows you to keep a blanket of co2 over the top without adding excess co2 or allowing the beer to oxidize. I.E. my co2 tank can be at 14 psi for other beers, but lets in just a tiny amount to the "cask" keg because of the propane regulator.

Now I am experimenting with letting o2 in for the first few pints, maybe for a day or so, then blanketing with co2. The idea being I get a bit of the change you get with cask ale from letting air in, without letting the oxidation totally take effect and ruining the beer before I can drink it. To do this I have just been unscrewing the barb on the quick disconnect that connects with the propane regulator and co2. This lets air from the atmosphere in when I draw beer out. Then I'll just screw the barb back on and open up the co2 flow through the propane regulator to blanket again.

You don't *need* the beer engine but if you don't have something that pumps you need to get the beer out via gravity. You could do this by laying a corny on its side tilted down slightly, and attach a quick disconnect and a picnic faucet or some other sort of faucet. But then it would be harder to chill etc. You can see some people have used those plastic containers with faucets and stuck them in the fridge. I like the pump because I can keep the keg refrigerated a bit and it is a bit more like a real beer engine. Someday I'll get a real English one, but then I'll need a bar to mount it to, etc., and they are pricey. As described in the thread, this thing costs like $30 so its not too much of a layout.

 

[FrickD]

You don't *need* the beer engine but if you don't have something that pumps you need to get the beer out via gravity. You could do this by laying a corny on its side tilted down slightly, and attach a quick disconnect and a picnic faucet or some other sort of faucet. But then it would be harder to chill etc. You can see some people have used those plastic containers with faucets and stuck them in the fridge. I like the pump because I can keep the keg refrigerated a bit and it is a bit more like a real beer engine. Someday I'll get a real English one, but then I'll need a bar to mount it to, etc., and they are pricey. As described in the thread, this thing costs like $30 so its not too much of a layout.

I just ordered the pump. For me, it's well worth $30 to give it a try and should integrate with my existing kegerator setup well. I actually think the pump looks nice in commonlaw's setup (and others) and it's much cheaper than a real beer engine. Granted, it would be even cheaper to use gravity.

 

[commonlaw]

When you mount the pump to a box I recommend mounting it somewhat forward of center. Mine is basically in the center and it doesn't really reach my drip tray. I need to redo the box anyway for other reasons, but this might save some people trouble especially if they are integrating it into a kegerator or other existing setup.

 

[jldesign]

ok co2 is heavier than o2...when the keg is filled you purge all the air out with co2 and seal the keg as usual. you let it sit to naturally carb. once it is ready you release the pressure and hook up the engine and open the release valve and pump out the goodness you have created.....

ok would there not always be a layer of c02 in the keg until the last pint laying on the beer to not allow o2 to effect it? or am i assuming it is some sort of super layer and really will blend with o2 over time? mad scientists please reply?

either way I'm making one for festivals and camping!!!!!

 

[FrickD]

ok co2 is heavier than o2...when the keg is filled you purge all the air out with co2 and seal the keg as usual. you let it sit to naturally carb. once it is ready you release the pressure and hook up the engine and open the release valve and pump out the goodness you have created.....

ok would there not always be a layer of c02 in the keg until the last pint laying on the beer to not allow o2 to effect it? or am i assuming it is some sort of super layer and really will blend with o2 over time? mad scientists please reply?

either way I'm making one for festivals and camping!!!!!

Hmmm, well, I'm not a mad scientist but I think you might be onto something with your gas blend theory. Also, some of both gases will likely blend into the beer. Mad scientists...need more info.

 

[FrickD]

For those who used the Valterra, did you use 1/4" ID beverage line and did that fit on the barb on the pump or do I need to get 5/16"?

 

[chucke]

For those who used the Valterra, did you use 1/4" ID beverage line and did that fit on the barb on the pump or do I need to get 5/16"?

I used 3/8" ID.
If it were under serious pressure, I would go to 5/16" ID.
As it is, 3/8" ID is G2G.

 

[FrickD]

I put together a beer engine setup and I totally ripped off commonlaw's setup (thanks). I won't be able to use it until next week earliest (cask is conditioning) so no real ale pics yet. I'd love to try to make my own pump handle with pump clip and everything but I'm a bit nervous I'll destroy the Valterra pump trying to remove the plastic handle that comes with it. Please post if anyone has success with that.

Here's a pic of the setup.

 

[commonlaw]

I put together a beer engine setup and I totally ripped off commonlaw's setup (thanks). I won't be able to use it until next week earliest (cask is conditioning) so no real ale pics yet. I'd love to try to make my own pump handle with pump clip and everything but I'm a bit nervous I'll destroy the Valterra pump trying to remove the plastic handle that comes with it. Please post if anyone has success with that.

Here's a pic of the setup.

looks awesome! Your box is much classier than mine... still haven't gotten around to re-doing mine.

 

[jldesign]

if i force carb a keg like usual with co2....what would happen if i used this hand pump (with the pressure release open like a keg primed keg?

the beer would be kicked in 24-48 hours? would it cause over carb pour or nothing but pouring properly carbed beer? my thought is keg on the go (from my pre-carbed stock) without the need for co2 for camping etc?

any ideas without me testing?

 

[FrickD]

if i force carb a keg like usual with co2....what would happen if i used this hand pump (with the pressure release open like a keg primed keg?

the beer would be kicked in 24-48 hours? would it cause over carb pour or nothing but pouring properly carbed beer? my thought is keg on the go (from my pre-carbed stock) without the need for co2 for camping etc?

any ideas without me testing?

If the beer is at the proper C02 level (not overcarbed in the keg) then I see no reason why that wouldn't work. The functionality of the hand pump really isn't that different from the standard party taps people use on Sanke kegs. Keep in mind though, it won't be cask conditioned and will still have the short shelf life of cask conditioned beer. Not a bad idea for camping though.

 

[jldesign]

If the beer is at the proper C02 level (not overcarbed in the keg) then I see no reason why that wouldn't work. The functionality of the hand pump really isn't that different from the standard party taps people use on Sanke kegs. Keep in mind though, it won't be cask conditioned and will still have the short shelf life of cask conditioned beer. Not a bad idea for camping though.

exactly! im thinking i can take a keg and run without the need for anything but hand pumping. now for the portable keg hauler project.....

 

[Viper78]

So I have a question has anyone else tried collapsible water containers like you would use for hiking? I noticed one guy made a setup like that.

On a side note about real ale I thought you actually do your secondary in the "cask" so there would be no need for additional priming sugar unless you were doing a recipe that called for more carbonation.

 

[jldesign]

portable keg haulder complete with engine done...tried a pale ale fully forced carbed from my kegerator...works but WOW the engine causes the standard level of co2 ber to make a HUGE beauty of a foamy head (looked exactly like a nitro pour) beer tastes fine and also maybe even brings out the faded hops a bit. did i say HUGE HEAD.... party in two weeks will be the kickoff use i have a small session beer i'm carbing for it to only 1 volume or 1.5 and give that a try. a fully carbed keg will work just fine you just have to let the head settle a bit... after that it'll be keg primming with the engine.. had to try it out

 

[chucke]

Valterra Pump Update: I've been using the pump for several months now.

It's holding up well enough- but in all honesty, it's getting to be a real PITA.

It dispenses about 1 ounce per pump... do the math.

-Looking for something else to take its place.-

 

[commonlaw]

sounds like you need a real beer engine. just more $$. but it looks cooler and generally dispenses 1/2 pint (10oz) per pull.

Valterra Pump Update: I've been using the pump for several months now.

It's holding up well enough- but in all honesty, it's getting to be a real PITA.

It dispenses about 1 ounce per pump... do the math.

-Looking for something else to take its place.-

 

[mwhc22]

hmmmm.... this beer engine plan seems intriguing...

dang it!!! i haven't even saved up the money or space to get my kegs out of the fridge and into a keezer yet... now im gonna have to put building a beer engine set up for some traditional ale on the list too...

some times SWMBO says my home brew shopping list grows faster than her clothes/shoes shopping list

 

[jldesign]

terrible phone shot.... rocket pump dispensed 2 full kegs (that were precarbed at home) over a weekend sitting in the sun covered with a blanket at a music fest...stayed cold. no co2 no problem.

kinda ghetto but worked (those are two white paint buckets from big box stores BTW... one cut jammed up into the lid the other jammed down onto it.

working on a better looking setup but for how much i'll use it - works great

 

[commonlaw]

terrible phone shot.... rocket pump dispensed 2 full kegs (that were precarbed at home) over a weekend sitting in the sun covered with a blanket at a music fest...stayed cold. no co2 no problem.

kinda ghetto but worked (those are two white paint buckets from big box stores BTW... one cut jammed up into the lid the other jammed down onto it.

working on a better looking setup but for how much i'll use it - works great

that is pretty slick. portable cask ale. I like it. :rockin:

 

[Homercidal]

Not really sure I want to drink cask ale yet. But for some strange reason, I really want to build a beer engine! Damn you compulsive project building OCD!!!

 

[jldesign]

both kegs i force carbed at home to 1.5vol. or so they served with a nice frothy head that lasted - might even of been better at 1vol...no need to prime if you dont want - both were hoppy pale ales

Not really sure I want to drink cask ale yet. But for some strange reason, I really want to build a beer engine! Damn you compulsive project building OCD!!!

 

[lmnop]

For the people who have mounted these on top of keggerators: what size hole did you ultimately need in the roof of the fridge?

Edit: and how do you think it would work out to drill two holes in the top of a Tap-A-Draft lid for the line and the air filter and use those for your kegs?

 

[Jonnio]

Does anyone else that has done this find that the first beer tastes plasticy?

I got my beer engine done a couple weeks ago and I think I am going to have to start pumping 24 oz of water through it before serving beer

 

[BrewingRob]

I'm going to attach a Valtera pump to the bar I built last weekend. I already have a camping cube (5 Gal) that I'm planning on using for cask ale.

Any current updates on the success of the Valtera/Polypin setup?

My plan is to put about 2.5-3.5 gal in the cubitainer, expunge the extra air, and then bottle the remainder. Anyone else try this?

I'd like to build a sparkler for it. The one described in BYO looks doable, but I'd love to try another (all plastic?) solution. Anyone else build one?

 

[commonlaw]

Mine is going strong a year+ in--it got a bit gummed up because I didn't clean it well, but after a thorough take apart and cleaning it's back like a champ.

Mine comes out of a corny but don't see why you couldn't do the cubitainer. I've been wanting to try one.

I'm not sure you need a sparkler--I get plenty of head with mine (it's called the rocket and it does sort of shoot the beer out)--you get that cascading guinness look in the glass just from the pump itself. but to each his own, don't want to re-start the sparkler debate.

 

[chucke]

I got tired of the Valterra pump.
It works fine, but it dispenses about an ounce per pump.
It's quite the novelty at first, but after a while it's just a huge PITA.

If I use cubitainers I just gravity dispense.

One other method
-Fort Pak container, 2.5 or 5 gallon
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23516&catid=576
Drill a large hole in the cap, which has a secondary thread for 3/4" NPT.

Add a spigot, which is threaded for 3/4" NPT, like this one
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24273&catid=810&clickid=searchresults

Prime with sugar and sit the Fort Pak on its side, so that the spigot is down and the small, second hole on the Fort Pak is up.

Open the small, second hole when dispensing.