Feedback request Munich Dunkel

[shockey8oz]

This is one of my first posts. So be nice!

Looking for feedback to make my best Munich Dunkel recipe. KC Beir Co (here in Kansas City) makes a very good dunkel. I would like to make a similar style beer. I have never made a dunkel style before. I am not scared of decoction mashing either. Numbers from brewers friend.

5.0# Munich Dark
2.5# Munich Light
3.0# Pilsner
6.0 oz Carafa II (color)
6.0 oz Carapils (mouthfeel)
22g German Tradition (6.5%AA) @ 60 min -19 IBU
17g German Tradition (6.5%AA) @ 5 min -3 IBU

Mash Schedule
122F (50C) - 45 min
152F (67C) - 45 min
167F (75C) - 10 min

 

[Smellyglove]

I'd say you'd strip that mouthfeel away pretty quick with 45min @ 50C. You get some body from the munich but that step will break some of that down.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I wouldn't bother with the carapils - all that munich malt will give plenty of body and head retention.
Almost a gram per litre of hops at 5 min is a lot. That's OK if it's what you want (more hop aroma than normal), just be aware of it.
Importantly, which maltster(s) are the grains from?
Describe the flavours and aromas in the KC Bier Co Dunkel.
I'd suggest a more typical German mash at 145F for 30mins (maltose rest), then 160 for 30mins (dextrin rest) then mashout. This really helps with fermentability and keeping some dextrins for body and head. You could have a short rest at 130 beforehand if you wanted to (limit to 15 mins).

 

[shockey8oz]

I'd say you'd strip that mouthfeel away pretty quick with 45min @ 50C. You get some body from the munich but that step will break some of that down.

I wouldn't bother with the carapils - all that munich malt will give plenty of body and head retention.
Almost a gram per litre of hops at 5 min is a lot. That's OK if it's what you want (more hop aroma than normal), just be aware of it.
Importantly, which maltster(s) are the grains from?
Describe the flavours and aromas in the KC Bier Co Dunkel.
I'd suggest a more typical German mash at 145F for 30mins (maltose rest), then 160 for 30mins (dextrin rest) then mashout. This really helps with fermentability and keeping some dextrins for body and head. You could have a short rest at 130 beforehand if you wanted to (limit to 15 mins).

Thank you! I adjusted using the info given so far.

I also went to the website (DUH!) and pulled stats from KC Bier Co.
Malt: Munich, Pilsner, other dark specialty malts
Hops: Perle
5.1% ABV 18 IBU Color:Brown

4.5# Munich Light
3.5# Munich Dark
2.75# Pilsner
6.0 oz Carafa II (color)
4.0 oz Chocolate
17g Perle (8.2%AA) @ 60 min -18 IBU

5.1% ABV 18.4 IBU Color: 24.87 SRM (Morey)

Mash
145F - 30 min maltose
160F - 30 min dextrin
168F - 10 min mash out

 

[Gnomebrewer]

The reason I asked about the flavours in the Dunkel that you like is to try to match the recipe to your expectations. A 'true' German dunkel is typically all continental dark munich malt. It's malty in a toasty and smooth way, with little (or no) caramel or toffee. The first dunkel I ever had was a Konig Ludwig that, I now know, was oxidised. It had toffee and dark fruit and was rich and delicious - that's what I wanted in a dunkel.
What you have will give something with more roasty notes than a typical dunkel. Is that what you want? Or do you want a normal dunkel? Hoppier than normal? More caramel sweet? Toffee?
That's why I asked for a description of the dunkel that you liked.
Also, the yeast strain and ferment schedule will be important.
Again, so will the maltster. Especially for the dark munich. Some are completely different to continental dark munich malt and won't work in the quantities you have listed.

 

[Smellyglove]

oz and lbs does not say me a thing. % should be the universal standard. Because it's unaffected by batch/grist size, and not everyone uses that totally useless imperial-stuff

I don't know your ratios, but the blend looks good. Although I'd hold the beta-rest for at least 40 minutes. Munich (dark at least) is a very heavy malt.I've done Dunkels with 99& dark munich and 1% choco, and it can be pretty heavy.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Munich (dark at least) is a very heavy malt.I've done Dunkels with 99& dark munich and 1% choco, and it can be pretty heavy.

It can be. It really depends on the maltster, which is why this info is important. Some dark munich malts (not the German ones) are really more like aromatic and can't self convert. There is a BIG difference between them.

 

[Smellyglove]

It can be. It really depends on the maltster, which is why this info is important. Some dark munich malts (not the German ones) are really more like aromatic and can't self convert. There is a BIG difference between them.

Comparing to the "original" (European/german) standards a dark munich malt should be able to selv convert. But it's at the upper boundaries of diastatic power.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Comparing to the "original" (European/german) standards a dark munich malt should be able to selv convert. But it's at the upper boundaries of diastatic power.

Absolutely. But not all do, and they vary considerably in intensity.
Weyermann Munich 2 is great at 100%.
Bestmalz Dark Munich is at the upper end of intensity (for my tastes) at 100%.
Joe White (Australian) Dark munich is too sweet at 80% of the grist (IME and only from one batch). I've read that some US dark munich malts are similar.

 

[Smellyglove]

Why not use authentic malts to brew an authentic style. I know that price and availability can be an issue, but still. If you wan't to brew an as close to authentic Dunkel, use german malts.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Why not use authentic malts to brew an authentic style. I know that price and availability can be an issue, but still. If you wan't to brew an as close to authentic Dunkel, use german malts.

Yep. I agree 100%.