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recently my brother and i found an old family recipe for a beer our great great grandfather used to brew. we tried making it and we were very unsure how the beer should be brewed. it is a very strange mix and the end result came out pretty nasty, which we nicknamed cobra venom. the recipe is below and is written exactly how we found it:

hops bitters all ground herbs 7 qts of water all ground herbs 2 oz of hops 1 quart of malt 1 oz of ginseng 1 oz of orange peel 3 oz wild cherry bark
boil down 4 1/2 qts of water after straining them add 1 pound or 7 cups of sugar. add a half a pint of yeast.
let this stand for a night then strain again and ass half a pint of gin. let this stand for 24 hours. then it can be bottled.

for the list of ingredients we used (since the recipe does not tell you):
malt- maris otter
hops- fuggle leaf

i followed a standard 60 min boil with 2 hop additions, one at 60 the other 30 minutes in.

the final product was a grog of sorts with EXTREME earthy notes (it tasted like dirt, literally) from the ginseng and wild cherry bark.

i am looking for some advice to convert this into a modern recipe that does not taste like dirt but still uses all of the above ingredients
 
Did you use fresh ginseng, bark, and orange peel or dried stuff. Wet would use a lot less.
 
A half pint of yeast? Yikes.

Here is what I would do...

I would use 6 pounds of liquid malt extract.
I would boil 3 gallons of water, add hops, any hops sound like it'll do fine. 60 min addition and 15 min addition, 1.5 ounces combined of each hop.
5 min before flameout, add orange peel, ginseng, and then secondary maybe do the wild cherry bark or some kind of oak. Or skip it. Can you even find that?

The ginseng and orange may make for a neat hefeweizen so maybe wheat malt extract, the hops, fuggle may not be awesome with a hefe but try it, and of course the spices.

1 package of US-05 or a hefe/wit yeast.
 
Beer was different a while ago. Have you seen any of the original recipes by George Washington?
I would first do some research for other recipes of the time and the available ingredients.
You may find the recipe was the local town favorite. Must be something to learn about the ingredients or brewing procedure though for you to nick name it cobra venom.
 
I'd dry hop on the peel and maybe follow the steps used for using wood in the secondary for the bark (I haven't used wood yet, but I think you smoke it?). I definitely would boil the ginseng.

Maybe completely skip the gin and do a slower fermentation with the proper amount a yeast. I suppose a half pint of re-hydrated dry yeast is actually about right, though. Would be pretty interesting to see if this was ever figured out.
 
I'd dry hop on the peel and maybe follow the steps used for using wood in the secondary for the bark (I haven't used wood yet, but I think you smoke it?). I definitely would boil the ginseng.

Maybe completely skip the gin and do a slower fermentation with the proper amount a yeast. I suppose a half pint of re-hydrated dry yeast is actually about right, though. Would be pretty interesting to see if this was ever figured out.
I didn't think about the half pint being rehydrated. I was thinking a full half pint of yeast. :) Silly me.
 
A half pint of yeast? Yikes.

Here is what I would do...

I would use 6 pounds of liquid malt extract.
I would boil 3 gallons of water, add hops, any hops sound like it'll do fine. 60 min addition and 15 min addition, 1.5 ounces combined of each hop.
5 min before flameout, add orange peel, ginseng, and then secondary maybe do the wild cherry bark or some kind of oak. Or skip it. Can you even find that?

The ginseng and orange may make for a neat hefeweizen so maybe wheat malt extract, the hops, fuggle may not be awesome with a hefe but try it, and of course the spices.

1 package of US-05 or a hefe/wit yeast.

the wild cherry bark we found online, it was not cheap along with the ginseng it gives far to strong flavors. my brother has been working on making a tea/extract of them so we can taste the in liquid form and then add the liquid instead of the unknown amount of flavors it might put off while soaking
 
the recipe is below and is written exactly how we found it:

hops bitters all ground herbs 7 qts of water all ground herbs 2 oz of hops 1 quart of malt 1 oz of ginseng 1 oz of orange peel 3 oz wild cherry bark
boil down 4 1/2 qts of water after straining them add 1 pound or 7 cups of sugar. add a half a pint of yeast.
let this stand for a night then strain again and ass half a pint of gin. let this stand for 24 hours. then it can be bottled.

My modern take followed by my thoughts on it.

Great Great Grampa's Tonic

1 gallon batch

Ingredients:
2oz hops (variety see below)
1oz Ginseng (fresh, muddled)
1oz Orange peel (fresh, muddled)
.5oz wild cherry bark (toasted dark and crushed)
1 quart of malt (Light DME)

Directions:
Mix the DME into 7 quarts of cold water and bring to boil. When boiling add the remaining ingredients. Boil for 30 minutes. Cool and strain into sanitized fermentor. Cover and shake like hell.

Make a proofed starter with bread yeast to get to the pint of rehydrated yeast volume and pitch into fermentor.(I have no idea how much this will be, you will need to experiment) Primary until krausen drops, then rack to secondary add gin to taste. Then add in appropriate amount of dextrose to prime the bottles and bottle. Bottle condition as normal.


Reasons/guesses as to the recipes and my modern interpretation:

GGGrampa did not have a LHBS to get supplies he most likely gathered the hops, bark and orange peel himself. Wet bark would probably have NOT been used so he probably would have dried it in the oven or toasted it in a pan would be my guess. If we guess using the hop drying formula starting with 3oz of wet bark, then drying and toasting it down would give you about .5 oz. I would toast it dark due to the large amount. Also he probably did not know how to describe muddling the orange peel and ginseng so he called it grinding. Wet would also give you WAY less in the recipe and this just sounds right to me. Also regarding the orange peel I would try to find some orange that have a thin pith, pith does not taste particularly good.

There were ways to get malt extract, which was the most popular way to make beer at that time (If I am guessing the time frame correctly). The most popular was Blue Ribbon and it would be pretty close to modern Light DME.

Now lets think about the hops. The best way to figure this out would be to figure out where GGGrampa was living when he was brewing or at least a decent guess. This may elude to the type of hops he would have had access to. My guess would be Willamette or Cascade as those where the most popular in that timeframe across the country. I can also guess these were fresh, wet hops or dried whole leaf, they may have come with the malt, IDK. For the sake of argument I would side with Cascade because that would probably taste the best in this recipe. I would make 2 batches one with the 2oz dried whole leaf and one with 1/2oz dried whole leaf to simulate the wet hop idea. (Wet hops weigh x5 more than dried hops FYI) There is no benefit from crushing or grinding the hops so I would not. (he probably did not know this and did it anyways.)

The malt was measured by a quart, probably a mason jar. This is going to make a STRONG beer lol. I would guess 3lbs but I would measure it out in a quart jar. Mixing DME in cold water is easier than boiling water, this is why I recommended that technique, you will get less clumps.

We know that GGGrampa starts with 7 quarts of water and boils it down to 4.5 quarts. Assuming a standard boiloff rate of 1 gallon per hour he boiled for 25-30 minutes. This would also make it less offensively bitter and not boil all the flavor from the other ingredients to nothing.

The fermentation time is tricky to. If he made this 1st thing in the morning (eating the oranges for breakfast) and overpitched the yeast it would have had the whole day plus an additional 24 hours to primary which is not out of the realm of feasible.

He then seems to strain the krausen off and add in gin. I am guessing this would have stalled the fermentation but left enough yeast and sugars to carbonate the beer in the bottles. This is a dangerous way to do this so I recommended waiting a little while longer and let the krausen drop. IMO I would actually ferment it out then add in a small amount of gin to taste (start with an oz and add an oz at a time until it tastes good) and add in the correct amount of sugar to bottle condition it, it is way easier to predict the end results this way and you will have less bottle bombs. I will also guess the bottles GGGrampa had were MUCH thicker than the ones we have today.

I recommend omitting the extra sugar, at least for a few batches. 7 cups does not equal a pound and I will guess he played with the amount trying to increase the alcohol content or make it sweeter. I would try to get something that doesn't taste like snake venom before making it stronger!

Judging by the high alcohol content I can guess he used plain old bread yeast, it would have been WAY easier to get than brewers yeast and has a high alcohol tolerance. Oddly the JOAM recipe also calls for orange peel and bread yeast so I just assume this is correct.

Well that is my take on it. GL! :mug:
 
You assed half a pint of gin into it. What did you think it would taste like?

well i knew it would not taste that great with all the gin in it. but i wanted to taste it how he used to drink it that way i can alter it properly and make this into a modern day recipe with possibly juniper berries instead of gin, to get a subtle taste or aroma.
i really just wanted some help with brain storming, and so far it has helped so much

thanks everyone for posting your thoughts :)

i just went to the LHBS yesterday to pick up ingredients. i will post after my brew session
 
so the recipe i posted on here i found out last night is not a recipe for beer but a recipe for HOPS BITTERS for making mixed cocktails. our family loves gin.
with that being said last night my brother and i still brewed the batch that i had prepared, and i hope it turns out well.
recipe:
5lb vienna malt
5lb pilsner
1 lb honey malt
1lb cara red
simcoe @ 60
palisade @ 30
cascade @15
whirlflock @ 15
1/3 oz orange peel @ 15
wild cherry bark extract (homemade) @ 10
ginseng extract (^) @ 10

not 100% positive what that recipe would be considered. but i hope it turns out well. i will keep you updated
 
Notice the herbs? Those are probably bittering herbs, not hops. Could use both. You need to think about what was readily accessible/gathered in the area at the time. I think that it's the key to making this beer. A true clone of his beer probably sucks by today's standards, but could have been acceptable then. I would expect harsh bittering tones from the herbs, earthy and musky from the bark, and some lacto souring from less than perfect sanitation. You can boil the wort for fifteen min, cool it and throw in some raw grain. Let the lacto sour to taste (a few days to a week), then do your normal boil with bitters to kill off the bugs, cool, pitch yeast.

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