Falstaff Recipe Advice

[Tobor_8thMan]

@brewmanStan Thanks for posting! On my brew list.

 

[brewmanStan]

@brewmanStan Thanks for posting! On my brew list.

Thanks very much Brooothru and 8thMan. I think you guys will like this especially if you can find Falstaff's yeast strain of that era. This recipe has taken several years of experimentation, using many hop combinations and grain combinations. This is the closest I've got thus far. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm going by my 69 year old taste memory since there is no original Falstaff available nowadays but to me it's getting there. And to you Mark M, I hope you can find someone near you who can brew you some Falstaff for your father.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

@brewmanStan I will brew with BYO's yeast recommendation.

I do remember drinking and enjoying Falstaff in the 1970s so I really do appreciate posting the recipe.

We face the same problem. Attempting to recollect how beers tasted in the 1970's vs when we attempt to brew them now

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

These types of things are what I really enjoy about homebrewing. Research, history, digging, discovery, experimentation, etc.

Friends probably believe, bast*ard just drinks all the time.

No, actually enjoying my creation is the final part after items mentioned in beginning sentence.

 

[Broothru]

These types of things are what I really enjoy about homebrewing. Research, history, digging, discovery, experimentation, etc.

Friends probably believe, bast*ard just drinks all the time.

No, actually enjoying my creation is the final part after items mentioned in beginning sentence.

^^^TOTALLY^^^^

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

@Brooothru I've posted before and I'll post again your profile picture is way cool!

 

[Broothru]

Thanks very much Brooothru and 8thMan. I think you guys will like this especially if you can find Falstaff's yeast strain of that era. This recipe has taken several years of experimentation, using many hop combinations and grain combinations. This is the closest I've got thus far. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm going by my 69 year old taste memory since there is no original Falstaff available nowadays but to me it's getting there. And to you Mark M, I hope you can find someone near you who can brew you some Falstaff for your father.

I'm really looking forward to brewing this. Just spent about a hour looking up references and playing with BeerSmith to lay some serious ground work. The yeast presents some interesting possibilities. As I mentioned earlier, I'm leaning away from "American lager" yeasts from the regular yeast propagators and was almost set on WLP-830 "German Lager" yeast. Then I happened to see a recipe that used WLP-833 "German Bock" and it was like, "WHAM. Done deal." Just happen to have a 1st generation sample from a recent overbuilt starter sitting in the beer fridge waiting for a viability check and step up. I've got all the other ingredients on hand except the Victory and the flaked barley (even have the 6 row!). Only issue is no empty kegs until after next months' competition entries get bottled. First world problems.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Hmm... I do wonder whom posted the Falstaff recipe using WLP-833 ;-)

 

[Broothru]

Hmm... I do wonder whom posted the Falstaff recipe using WLP-833 ;-)

Ohoooo!

Thanks for the heads up! I think the -833 will be the perfect yeast for this project.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Ohoooo!

Thanks for the heads up! I think the -833 will be the perfect yeast for this project.

I too am excited about brewing the recipe.

 

[brewmanStan]

I too am excited about brewing the recipe.

I'm glad to see you guys hopefully take this recipe to the next level by using an appropriate lager yeast with it. I'm looking forward to hearing how your beers turn out. I always felt that the lager yeast just might turn out to be that little tweak in flavor/aroma that I seemed to always be chasing using US-05.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

It's on my schedule. Will probably brew in the fall after scalling up to my brewhouse. @brewmanStan I do thank you for posting!

 

[brewmanStan]

It's on my schedule. Will probably brew in the fall after scalling up to my brewhouse. @brewmanStan I do thank you for posting!

You are more than welcome. Can't wait to hear how it comes out. I have flirted with trying this recipe with that San Francisco lager yeast just to compare with one made with US-05. My basement area stays around 64-66F most of the year so maybe that is possible one of these days. In the meantime I'll just keep making it with US-05. Like I mentioned before, I can't keep enough around, everybody likes it so much.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Hmm... I do have the California Common yeast in reserve... perhaps

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I wonder if, perhaps, Yeast Wyeast 2487 or White Labs 833 is the key to my Stroh's recipe.

 

[brewmanStan]

I wonder if, perhaps, Yeast Wyeast 2487 or White Labs 833 is the key to my Stroh's recipe.

Could be. I have no experience with lager yeasts at all so I wouldn't have a clue. I do remember drinking Stroh's on occasion and I liked it. Good beer.

 

[ba-brewer]

I wonder if, perhaps, Yeast Wyeast 2487 or White Labs 833 is the key to my Stroh's recipe.

I would think boiling with propane would be the key.
Stroh's was one of my favorites from the 70s. Most of the beer I drank in the 70s was krausen the old world way.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

"Fire Brewed" was more marketing hype than anything. Probably, at one time, all beer was "fire brewed".

 

[bwible]

"Fire Brewed" was more marketing hype than anything. Probably, at one time, all beer was "fire brewed".

Well thats so you know its not “ice brewed”

 

[AmarikinBrew]

OK 8thMan, here's a 4 gallon recipe of my 1960's Falstaff Tribute:

5.6# Rahr 6 Row
.5# Briess Victory Malt
1.6# Flaked Corn
.8# Flaked Rice
.7# Flaked Barley
.4oz Cluster @ 60 min
.2oz Brewer's Gold @ 20 min
.2oz Hallertau Mittlefruh @ 5 min

This recipe makes a really good beer that is to date the closest I have made to 1960's-70's Falstaff. You can use 2 row in lieu of all or half of the 6 row if you wish, and you can use Liberty in lieu of Hallertau Mittlefruh, although I think Hallertau renders closest to Falstaff flavor. If you can nail down which yeast strain Falstaff used back then, you'll be very happy with this. I personally use US-05 because I don't have proper lager capabilities but everybody seems to like it nonetheless.

Refueling for Hyperthreading:

https://beerandbrewing.com/repro-or-retro/


However, before sequencing revealed the genomic differences between these strains, chromosome fingerprinting established two basic types of fingerprints in U.S. yeast strains. Greg Casey began researching chromosome fingerprinting as a post-doctoral researcher at the Carlsberg Research Laboratory in the 1980s. Before retiring in 2013, he used the process in research while working for Anheuser-Busch, Stroh Brewery, and Coors (as well as the brewing partnerships of which Coors became a part).

His studies identified two families of industrial strains, called Carlsberg and Tuborg because the purified cultures traced back to those respective breweries. There were variations within the family, but after World War II only two large breweries in the United States were using Tuborg-type yeast—Anheuser-Busch and Coors, both of which thrived as the population of American breweries shrank.
The list of shuttered breweries that used Carlsberg [Ed. AKA S-189] yeast is familiar to those who collect Breweriana and includes Schaefer, Blatz, Falstaff, Hamms, Heileman, Lemp, Lucky Lager, Olympia, Schlitz, and many others.

So Carlsberg lager yeast, I believe to be S-189 (by way of Spaten brewery), -also known as the old Brewferm lager yeast. Danish lager may still be out there in the liquid form.

brewmanStan's grist has a almost cream ale look to it. 6Row, Victory, and flaked are all barleys. With the other grist it makes a Cream of Three Crops in a way..... but grainy like the old Genesee cream ale.

Has anyone finished any yet?

 

[brewmanStan]

My current Falstaff recipe uses an ale yeast, US-05, and that's because I do not have the capacity to lager, but I do get a good beer very reminiscent of Falstaff's late 1960's to early 70's lager. Someone who does have the capacity to lager could perhaps take my recipe and ferment with a mid west strain of yeast and a couple of tweaks and get closer to the real thing. A three gallon formula for my Falstaff Tribute is:
4.45# Rahr 6-Row
.35# Briess Victory Malt
1.2# Flaked Corn
.6# Flaked Rice
.42# Flaked Barley
.225 oz Brewer;s Gold @ 60 min.
.225 oz Cluster @ 60 min.
.15 oz Hallertau @ 5 min.
My three years of experimenting with this shows that some combination of these three hops gives you that Falstaff flavor profile. I'm planning on trying a small addition of Cluster, Styrian Golding or Saaz at the 5 min point along with the Hallertau and see if this inches me closer. Hope this helps.

Hey guys. Haven't changed much on this recipe posted four years ago, although I've moved away from the flaked barley and lowered the biscuit malt/Victory slightly along with slight variances in hops and addition times. All my friends and family love this beer (they can't believe I make it) but I'm always trying to improve it, so here's my question. Has anybody out there used malted corn in lieu of flaked corn? If so, what are the advantages or disadvantages? I'm thinking I may want to try it when I use up 5 lbs of flaked corn I have.

 

[Broothru]

Interesting question, and one I asked myself after recently brewing a Mexican lager (think Pacifico, Corona, Modelo) that I felt lacked enough corn flavor. He’s what Chat AI bot had to say:

“In brewing, flaked corn and malted corn serve different purposes and impart distinct flavors. Flaked corn, also known as flaked maize, is commonly used as an adjunct to lighten the body and color of beer, particularly in American lagers. It provides fermentable sugars without adding much body or strong flavor. Malted corn, on the other hand, is a more specialized grain where the corn has undergone malting(germination), offering a sweeter, earthier flavor that can complement various beer styles, including pre-Prohibition lagers.“

I’ll probably try it next time. Also, a year or so ago I brewed a Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer that also had a corn adjunct (flaked maize) which I also thought lacked enough ‘corniness’ to be authentic. It’s not that I like the corn taste that much, but if you’re trying to replicate something, it might as well be authentic.

 

[brewmanStan]

Interesting question, and one I asked myself after recently brewing a Mexican lager (think Pacifico, Corona, Modelo) that I felt lacked enough corn flavor. He’s what Chat AI bot had to say:

“In brewing, flaked corn and malted corn serve different purposes and impart distinct flavors. Flaked corn, also known as flaked maize, is commonly used as an adjunct to lighten the body and color of beer, particularly in American lagers. It provides fermentable sugars without adding much body or strong flavor. Malted corn, on the other hand, is a more specialized grain where the corn has undergone malting(germination), offering a sweeter, earthier flavor that can complement various beer styles, including pre-Prohibition lagers.“

I’ll probably try it next time. Also, a year or so ago I brewed a Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer that also had a corn adjunct (flaked maize) which I also thought lacked enough ‘corniness’ to be authentic. It’s not that I like the corn taste that much, but if you’re trying to replicate something, it might as well be authentic.

Absolutely Broothru. It has always seemed to me that the flaked maize was lacking what I wanted out of it. I suppose it would have to be milled along with the other grains, which is no problem, I was just wondering if it should be milled separately. Incidentally, I took your lead from several years ago and replaced the 6-row with 2-row, and I do use Liberty in lieu of Hallertau occasionally, so I want to thank you for your input there. Also, a smaller amount of Biscuit and no flaked barley nowadays.

 

[Broothru]

Totally agree on the 6 row. It can’t possibly be an authentic U.S. tribute beer without using at least a portion of the grist as 6 row. I understand the arguments for/against its inclusion, especially the “but it’s well modified” one. There’s a subtle difference in the malt, whether it’s taste, texture, mouthfeel or just my imagination.

Maybe it’s the terroir, or maybe it’s the ghosts of George Miller or Auggie Busch that demand using ‘American’ native barley and North American cultivars of European noble hops, just like they had to use when they emigrated to the ‘States in the 1800s.

Don’t get me wrong. My favorite beers by far are the classic lagers and Pilsners from Central Europe, though there’s still a soft spot for the iconic beers of the Pre- and Post-Prohibition eras. I try to brew at least one of them every brew season, to remind me of the wonderful days of growing up, listening with my Dad and his brothers to the Phillies and the A’s Saturday baseball games on the radio.

It really was a blessing growing up as a Boomer in the 50s and 60s. Here’s to you, Dad.

 

[brewmanStan]

Totally agree on the 6 row. It can’t possibly be an authentic U.S. tribute beer without using at least a portion of the grist as 6 row. I understand the arguments for/against its inclusion, especially the “but it’s well modified” one. There’s a subtle difference in the malt, whether it’s taste, texture, mouthfeel or just my imagination.

Maybe it’s the terroir, or maybe it’s the ghosts of George Miller or Auggie Busch that demand using ‘American’ native barley and North American cultivars of European noble hops, just like they had to use when they emigrated to the ‘States in the 1800s.

Don’t get me wrong. My favorite beers by far are the classic lagers and Pilsners from Central Europe, though there’s still a soft spot for the iconic beers of the Pre- and Post-Prohibition eras. I try to brew at least one of them every brew season, to remind me of the wonderful days of growing up, listening with my Dad and his brothers to the Phillies and the A’s Saturday baseball games on the radio.

It really was a blessing growing up as a Boomer in the 50s and 60s. Here’s to you, Dad.

Yeah, I can relate to everything you wrote there, except down here it was the Braves we rooted for after they moved from Milwaukee, and Alabama football in the fall. My father, and almost all of my friends' fathers, aunts and uncles drank Falstaff, Shiltz, or PBR. Those, along with Bud and High Life were the main beers here, which is why I have a soft spot in my heart for Falstaff. It and Shiltz was truly really good beers in the late 60's and early 70's before things changed.

I've gotten to the point that I'm not so worried about making the beer "right" anymore. I just want it to be as close as I can remember for me and friends to enjoy. And you are one of those guys that can relate to what I'm saying. For some reason, some of the younger guys think mid 20th century beer was s*%t, but it really wasn't, it was good.

Here's to your Dad, my Dad, and my Aunt Edna!

 

[brewmanStan]

Interesting question, and one I asked myself after recently brewing a Mexican lager (think Pacifico, Corona, Modelo) that I felt lacked enough corn flavor. He’s what Chat AI bot had to say:

“In brewing, flaked corn and malted corn serve different purposes and impart distinct flavors. Flaked corn, also known as flaked maize, is commonly used as an adjunct to lighten the body and color of beer, particularly in American lagers. It provides fermentable sugars without adding much body or strong flavor. Malted corn, on the other hand, is a more specialized grain where the corn has undergone malting(germination), offering a sweeter, earthier flavor that can complement various beer styles, including pre-Prohibition lagers.“

I’ll probably try it next time. Also, a year or so ago I brewed a Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer that also had a corn adjunct (flaked maize) which I also thought lacked enough ‘corniness’ to be authentic. It’s not that I like the corn taste that much, but if you’re trying to replicate something, it might as well be authentic.

Hey Broothru, I ordered and received several pounds of Root Shoot Corn Malt to try in an upcoming batch of '60's Falstaff Tribute. Hope this is what my recipe has been missing. We'll see. It's featured in a pre-prohibition lager from Northern Brewer and I thought about your interest in that regard. Just mill it along with other grains. Might want to check it out for your next batch.

 

[Broothru]

Hey Broothru, I ordered and received several pounds of Root Shoot Corn Malt to try in an upcoming batch of '60's Falstaff Tribute. Hope this is what my recipe has been missing. We'll see. It's featured in a pre-prohibition lager from Northern Brewer and I thought about your interest in that regard. Just mill it along with other grains. Might want to check it out for your next batch.

Yep. That’s the ticket. I wish I’d subbed some corn malt in place of flaked corn. That said, my Cervesa Dorado Mexican lager came out really good. Just needs a hint more corn aroma/flavor. Still think it will do well in comps, and I know it’ll get drained quickly in the the ‘Cave.

 

[brewmanStan]

Yep. That’s the ticket. I wish I’d subbed some corn malt in place of flaked corn. That said, my Cervesa Dorado Mexican lager came out really good. Just needs a hint more corn aroma/flavor. Still think it will do well in comps, and I know it’ll get drained quickly in the the ‘Cave.

Glad your Mex lag turned out well. Good luck in the comps and enjoy.