Fake PID Controllers

[Nic0]

Hopefully this horse hasn't been beaten to death. But I was searching for info on PID controllers since I had heard the REX C100 is an inexpensive and effective PID controller for homebrewing. I ran accross a thread that seemed to indicate that there are a lot of knock-off REX C100s from overseas being sold for dirt cheap.

If I can get it for cheap, I don't care if they are knock-offs as long as they work.

So my question is... if I find a C100 for 15 bucks, is there a high probability that it's a knock-off, and if so, should I be worried that it might burst into flames and/or be of poor quality such that I shouldn't trust it for homebrewing? My intent is to use these for controlling heating elements and pump for mash.

Thanks!

Nic

 

[big_len]

I am a believer in Chinese electronics but I still remember thinking this same thing when considering one.

This is the only bad case I found:

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,243664,243664

However when you read what he was doing, he was actually using the internal relay to power his heating bed and said he'd had to change the relay already a few times. This would indicate that:

1- He was over working the relays since they were giving out
2- He may have replaced it with an unsuitable relay
3- He may have incorrectly installed the relay or damaged the device in doing so

I bought a cheap-o clone and have being using it, albeit with the relay removed and the 12v signal wired to the relay output pins, for both water heating with an SSR and fermentation control with an external relay. In the latter form, it has done month upons months of faultless running.

Also, I assume you have checked the thread in this forum dedicated to these to fully understand their limitations ?

 

[augiedoggy]

The my pin td4 is like 10 bucks more and way better.. it has manual control to prevent boilovers and control the boil better and ferhenhet readouts... the rec only does Celsius.

 

[Nic0]

Also, I assume you have checked the thread in this forum dedicated to these to fully understand their limitations ?

I have not. Is it a thread dedicated to the C100 or is it just dedicated to PID controllers in general? I wasn't sure what thread you are talking about.

The my pin td4 is like 10 bucks more and way better.. it has manual control to prevent boilovers and control the boil better and ferhenhet readouts... the rec only does Celsius.

Celsius temp reading/programming is not a problem. Is the TD4 only intended to work with a SSR?

 

[augiedoggy]

I have not. Is it a thread dedicated to the C100 or is it just dedicated to PID controllers in general? I wasn't sure what thread you are talking about.


Celsius temp reading/programming is not a problem. Is the TD4 only intended to work with a SSR?

There's a relay version and an SSR version (actually dual version with relay and ssr outputs)
Don't underestimate the convenience of being able to fine tune the boil by being able to manually adjust the duty cycle.

 

[beinert]

I agree with Augiedoggy, the Mypin TD4 is a much better choice if you're looking for a cheap PID.
A friend of mine bought a c100 that he thought would work with a SSR because it was being sold with one. Turned out it had the relay output and needed modifications to get it to work.

 

[mattd2]

There's a relay version and an SSR version (actually dual version with relay and ssr outputs)
Don't underestimate the convenience of being able to fine tune the boil by being able to manually adjust the duty cycle.

It sounds like the OP only wants control to set the mash temp - not for boil control.

From memory the biggest issue with getting the REX PIDs was the sellers not being clear if you were ordering a relay out or SSR output model. But some of those who got burnt with the wrong model modified the relay output (open up / remove relay / jump relay coil points to output terminals) with success.

Also the REX controllers are pretty much set at factory to what they can do - heating only, one specific alarm type, only one type of sensor can be used...
If you ever wanted to reuse it for another project in the future you may be SOL.

Augiedoggy - Do the MyPins have any limitation compared to the Aubers (I know I keep asking you stuff in different threads on these!)?

 

[Nic0]

It sounds like the OP only wants control to set the mash temp - not for boil control.

From memory the biggest issue with getting the REX PIDs was the sellers not being clear if you were ordering a relay out or SSR output model. But some of those who got burnt with the wrong model modified the relay output (open up / remove relay / jump relay coil points to output terminals) with success.

I Guess I was a little unclear in my original post... I had intended to use them to control both mash pump/heating element as well as boil heating element. And since they're so cheap, maybe another for freezer/fridge for fermentation temp control.

I haven't bought anything yet and thus haven't committed to SSR vs. mechanical relays. I'm leaning towards mechanical relays but I don't know that I have really incredible reason for leaning that way. I haven't leaned so far that I'm falling down though. I thought about robbing some mechanical relays from my old electric oven/stove that I saved. But they may not be rated for enough current... not sure, haven't taken it apart yet.

 

[Nic0]

ANd I just re-read your post, apparently the C100 is intended only to control a heating circuit, not a cooling circuit. D'oh! At least for fermentation control. I guess I Could use one for winter fermentation control with a heater.

 

[mattd2]

I Guess I was a little unclear in my original post... I had intended to use them to control both mash pump/heating element as well as boil heating element. And since they're so cheap, maybe another for freezer/fridge for fermentation temp control.

I haven't bought anything yet and thus haven't committed to SSR vs. mechanical relays. I'm leaning towards mechanical relays but I don't know that I have really incredible reason for leaning that way. I haven't leaned so far that I'm falling down though. I thought about robbing some mechanical relays from my old electric oven/stove that I saved. But they may not be rated for enough current... not sure, haven't taken it apart yet.

In that case really look at the MyPin - Augidoggy will give you the ebay listing for a combo deal with nearly all you need to start
In my opinion you will be much happier using this controller rather than a REX (I think a lot of people on here will be pushing you back up from your REX leaning )
For the Fermentation control look into a STC-1000, it is a simple 2-satge (heaating and cooling) controller for about $15.

 

[big_len]

This is the thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/rex-c100-pid-cheapest-pid-ebay-254480/

I have done the SSR modification similar to what is mentioned in the thread.

The standard disclaimer - I am certainly not saying this item is better than the more expensive products, but that it is fit for purpose.

 

[augiedoggy]

It sounds like the OP only wants control to set the mash temp - not for boil control.

From memory the biggest issue with getting the REX PIDs was the sellers not being clear if you were ordering a relay out or SSR output model. But some of those who got burnt with the wrong model modified the relay output (open up / remove relay / jump relay coil points to output terminals) with success.

Also the REX controllers are pretty much set at factory to what they can do - heating only, one specific alarm type, only one type of sensor can be used...
If you ever wanted to reuse it for another project in the future you may be SOL.

Augiedoggy - Do the MyPins have any limitation compared to the Aubers (I know I keep asking you stuff in different threads on these!)?

You can change sensors with the Rex.... I have a pt-100 connected to mine instead of the thermocouple it came with... figuring out the Engrish directions was no fun.

 

[augiedoggy]

In that case really look at the MyPin - Augidoggy will give you the ebay listing for a combo deal with nearly all you need to start
In my opinion you will be much happier using this controller rather than a REX (I think a lot of people on here will be pushing you back up from your REX leaning )
For the Fermentation control look into a STC-1000, it is a simple 2-satge (heaating and cooling) controller for about $15.

Yup I use an stc-1000 myself to control fermentation chamber.... I posted a few links at the end of the Rex thread.
The Rex will work its just after using something better I'm extremely happy I bought one of each and can now replace the Rex with another my pin as soon as it arrives in the mail.
Since you already ordered your Rex units BEFORE asking about them I'm afraid you won't care much to hear others opinions on them....
I Only use mine for temp readout to monitor mash temps and it seems to work OK but I'm going to another TD4 so I have consistent temp readouts instead of converting Celsius each time...
And you will have to keep your hand on the kill switch for the element while boiling because you may find it will be all over the place. I'm not sure myself but that's what I've read here from multiple members... others say there are tricks to get around it.

 

[big_len]

You can set heating or cooling through the inialisation menu - parameter SL6

 

[Nic0]

Since you already ordered your Rex units....

Actually I haven't ordered anything yet. So I just have some more reading and decision-making to do.

So far my spreadsheet of parts has a total of a little over $1000 USD for everything I think I need to buy, so an extra 10 or 20 bucks isn't going to kill me.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I'll read over these threads.

 

[augiedoggy]

Since you already ordered your Rex units....

Actually I haven't ordered anything yet. So I just have some more reading and decision-making to do.

So far my spreadsheet of parts has a total of a little over $1000 USD for everything I think I need to buy, so an extra 10 or 20 bucks isn't going to kill me.

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. I'll read over these threads.

I apologise, I mistakenly thought you wrote the post above which was actually posted by Big Len...

If your only going with one paid get the td4... if your using a second for say the hot or a rim system then get the Ta4 for that which will save you $6 or so.... both of them are my pin and the menus work the same way so its easier to remember how to use them.

 

[Nic0]

Since you already ordered your Rex units.... I apologise, I mistakenly thought you wrote the post above which was actually posted by Big Len...

If your only going with one paid get the td4... if your using a second for say the hot or a rim system then get the Ta4 for that which will save you $6 or so.... both of them are my pin and the menus work the same way so its easier to remember how to use them.

Not a problem... we all make mistakes!

Would a single Ta4 allow control over two separate heating circuits and two separate temp inputs?

 

[augiedoggy]

Not a problem... we all make mistakes!

Would a single Ta4 allow control over two separate heating circuits and two separate temp inputs?

I'm not sure but I don't think so.... it does have separate alarms but I don't think it has desperate points for the outputs... I could be wrong though because Rather than messing with unplugging and switching sensors and possible srcewing something up I just decided seperat pid controllers was the better way to go.....
You can get a my pin pid, ssr, heat sink and a pt-100 all for about $40 shipped on eBay so...
The Td4 is the best unit but the Ta series does everything the TD series does except it does not have the manual duty cycle function for maintaining a finely tuned even boil which is only needed in the boil kettle. ( think I may have already mentioned this so ignore it if I have )

 

[jlb307]

so do you think it would be better to use the TD4 vs. the TA4 for something like jkarp's countertop brutus 20 setup?

 

[augiedoggy]

so do you think it would be better to use the TD4 vs. the TA4 for something like jkarp's countertop brutus 20 setup?

the TD4 is actually cheaper at $25-26 shipped than the TA4's I have seen on ebay and the TD4 is the same in everyway except the sticker across the front and that it has the manual mode option built in if you want to use it so the TD4 is a better buy regardless but only really needed for the boil kettle application...I went with 3 TD4s for my setup
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/facelift-my-control-panel-497593/