EZboil, Power Regulator for Boiling DSPR110

[illomenbrewery]

Actually it could be that. I do have an indicator light for my element and it stayed on during the time i described. I will look into that, never heard of that before. The ssr is brand new so i hope there isn't an issue.

 

[doug293cz]

SSR latch up can happen if the SSR gets too warm. Can you post some photos of how your SSR and heatsink are mounted. This is why the SSR will work again if the disconnect the element, since the SSR cools down when there is no current flowing thru it. The latch up resolves itself due to the current interruption, and cooling.

Brew on

 

[illomenbrewery]

SSR latch up can happen if the SSR gets too warm. Can you post some photos of how your SSR and heatsink are mounted. This is why the SSR will work again if the disconnect the element, since the SSR cools down when there is no current flowing thru it. The latch up resolves itself due to the current interruption, and cooling.

Brew on

Here is a pic of my setup. I am just using the normal heatsink that came with the ssr.

 

[doug293cz]

Can you post a close up of the heatsink.

 

[illomenbrewery]

Can you post a close up of the heatsink.

Here is the ssr and heat sink i have. I bought it on amazon.

 

[doug293cz]

I'm familiar with that model heatsink. What I need to see is the details of just how it's mounted on your system. Mounting details can make a huge difference in how well a heatsink works.

Brew on

 

[illomenbrewery]

I'm familiar with that model heatsink. What I need to see is the details of just how it's mounted on your system. Mounting details can make a huge difference in how well a heatsink works.

Brew on

Pretty much cut a square out at the top and connected them through the hole.

 

[doug293cz]

Is there solid contact between the entire common surface area between the SSR and heatsink, and do you have a thin layer of thermal compound between the two? Another possibility is operating a possibly substandard SSR too close to it's "rated" current. A 5500W element draws about 23A when on, and many commodity SSR's are rated higher than the internal components warrant.

Brew on

 

[illomenbrewery]

Is there solid contact between the entire common surface area between the SSR and heatsink, and do you have a thin layer of thermal compound between the two? Another possibility is operating a possibly substandard SSR too close to it's "rated" current. A 5500W element draws about 23A when on, and many commodity SSR's are rated higher than the internal components warrant.

Brew on

Thanks for the info, i guess i will either upgrade the heat sink or get one rated higher.

 

[doug293cz]

You could also try using a fan to blow air across the heatsink.

Brew on

 

[user 125772]

I currently only have a 3-wire 240v setup so figured the ground could act as a neutral.

I have 240v on the other side of the switch when on (120v each side to ground and 240v between the two hots). Will have to give the 9v to the SSR a shot. Wasn't sure that was possible.

You should not be using the ground wire to carry current, that eliminates it's value as a true ground. The DSPR120 and 300 are spec'd to run on 90-260VAC, 50 Hz or 60 Hz so there's no reason to be jacking up your ground to run it on 120VAC.

 

[illomenbrewery]

You should not be using the ground wire to carry current, that eliminates it's value as a true ground. The DSPR120 and 300 are spec'd to run on 90-260VAC, 50 Hz or 60 Hz so there's no reason to be jacking up your ground to run it on 120VAC.

I am native 240v... I live in Belgium. I have live, neutral, ground

 

[TexasWine]

Thanks for the info, i guess i will either upgrade the heat sink or get one rated higher.

I still can't figure out how you mounted the ssr to the heat sink. I just built a panel so this is fresh in my mind. I couldn't simply cut a square and mount them because there would be nothing holding them in place.

For my installation I cut a very large rectangle out of the top of my enclosure, cut and installed a steel plate in that now empty space, and drilled holes in the plate for the SSR bolts, all so I could sandwich the steel plate between the SSR and heat sink.

Without doing this there was no way to mount the SSR without either an air gap or it flopping around in the enclosure hole cut for it.

 

[illomenbrewery]

I still can't figure out how you mounted the ssr to the heat sink. I just built a panel so this is fresh in my mind. I couldn't simply cut a square and mount them because there would be nothing holding them in place.

For my installation I cut a very large rectangle out of the top of my enclosure, cut and installed a steel plate in that now empty space, and drilled holes in the plate for the SSR bolts, all so I could sandwich the steel plate between the SSR and heat sink.

Without doing this there was no way to mount the SSR without either an air gap or it flopping around in the enclosure hole cut for it.

I will look again when i get home from work, now that you put it that way i may have a small gap. It has been a while since i built that panel but for some reason i thought i could cut the square and barely mount them. So, that might be the issue, i may have a gap.

 

[doug293cz]

If there is a gap between the base of the heatsink and the base of the SSR, that is a definite problem. Almost like not even having a heatsink.

Brew on

 

[TexasWine]

I believe we found your problem.

 

[illomenbrewery]

Thanks for all of the help going to mess with it after work then hopefully be able to test it after work tomorrow.

 

[Smellyglove]

I still can't figure out how you mounted the ssr to the heat sink. I just built a panel so this is fresh in my mind. I couldn't simply cut a square and mount them because there would be nothing holding them in place.

For my installation I cut a very large rectangle out of the top of my enclosure, cut and installed a steel plate in that now empty space, and drilled holes in the plate for the SSR bolts, all so I could sandwich the steel plate between the SSR and heat sink.

Without doing this there was no way to mount the SSR without either an air gap or it flopping around in the enclosure hole cut for it.

In my previous setup I cut a hole which was the size of the SSR. Mounted the SSR to the heatsink, and placed the whole thing so the SSR went inside through the cutout. Then fastened the heatsink to the enclosure.

 

[TexasWine]

In my previous setup I cut a hole which was the size of the SSR. Mounted the SSR to the heatsink, and placed the whole thing so the SSR went inside through the cutout. Then fastened the heatsink to the enclosure.

I can see doing that if the heatsink is larger than the SSR. But the one in the screenshot above is just like mine and the heat sink is almost exactly the dimensions of the SSR. There's no where to fasten the heatsink separately. Actually that's what the two bolt holes on the top side of the heat sink are for. Those heatsinks are for mounting inside an enclosure not external to the enclosure.

 

[illomenbrewery]

I can see doing that if the heatsink is larger than the SSR. But the one in the screenshot above is just like mine and the heat sink is almost exactly the dimensions of the SSR. There's no where to fasten the heatsink separately. Actually that's what the two bolt holes on the top side of the heat sink are for. Those heatsinks are for mounting inside an enclosure not external to the enclosure.

Thanks for all the help! I re-applied thermal grease and mounted the ssr/heatsink inside the enclosure. Did a test step mash and boil and everything worked perfectly! Again thanks everyone.

 

[TexasWine]

Thanks for all the help! I re-applied thermal grease and mounted the ssr/heatsink inside the enclosure. Did a test step mash and boil and everything worked perfectly! Again thanks everyone.

Excellent!

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks for all the help! I re-applied thermal grease and mounted the ssr/heatsink inside the enclosure. Did a test step mash and boil and everything worked perfectly! Again thanks everyone.

Great. Now you understand why I was asking all those questions about how your heatsink was mounted. Hope you get many good brews out of your system.

Brew on

 

[cod3ck]

Does anyone know if the power reduction on the EZBoil translates linearly to the amperage pulled by the element?

Ex.

I’m using a 4600 W element that pulls ~20 amps of current @ 240v.
If I set the EZBoil power max to 30%, does this mean the element will then only use 6 amps?

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

kind of... it is PWM, it delivers 100% of the power for 30% of the time period, which I think is 2 seconds, so it is on for .6 seconds and off for 1.4 seconds..

If you are looking to hook it up to a 10Amp circuit, you might just burn your house down... please don't burn your house down...

 

[doug293cz]

kind of... it is PWM, it delivers 100% of the power for 30% of the time period, which I think is 2 seconds, so it is on for .6 seconds and off for 1.4 seconds..

If you are looking to hook it up to a 10Amp circuit, you might just burn your house down... please don't burn your house down...

No, the EZBoils (DSPRxxx) are not PWM. They are pulse count modulated. At 30%, a DSPR will gate "ON" 30 out of every 100 AC cycles, and the cycles may or may not be adjacent. In PWM, the gated cycles are all adjacent. From the documentation of the DSPR's, it appears that they try to spread out the on cycles across the 100 AC cycles, so 50% would be every other cycle (what is shown in the doc), 33% would be every third cycle, 75% would be 3 out of 4 cycles, etc. In any case, just like PWM, whenever the output is gated "on", the load will draw 100% of its rated current, and be 0 when not gated "on". All of the different PID's I have seen used in brew systems are PWM.

Brew on

 

[BeardedBrews]

Note:
1. The burst rate will between 1 and 100 pulses for each 100 AC cycles. The pulse width equals to one AC cycle. It is automatically adjusted for 50 or 60 Hz.


It is as close to linear as you can get with an on off switch (ssr). I imagine an amp meter would show 6amps.

It may burn down your house, you might die, your beer will have elevated dms, your cat will catch fleas, and your aunt will write you out of her will...


I wouldn't use under gauge wiring, or rely on the ezboil instead of properly sized fuses, but it does reduce the average power draw.

(Edit) alas, too slow

 

[cod3ck]

Well... it’s probably still up for debate, but thanks to you guys the house is still standing [emoji23]

The reason I was asking is, I currently have the 4600W RIMS element I mentioned, and I was wondering if I could “get by” with running a mash on a low powered max output while heating up water in my HLT on another 5500W element. All done over a 30A circuit.

The answer appears to be a resounding yes... If Russian Roulette is your kind of thing.....

 

[augiedoggy]

Well... it’s probably still up for debate, but thanks to you guys the house is still standing [emoji23]

The reason I was asking is, I currently have the 4600W RIMS element I mentioned, and I was wondering if I could “get by” with running a mash on a low powered max output while heating up water in my HLT on another 5500W element. All done over a 30A circuit.

The answer appears to be a resounding yes... If Russian Roulette is your kind of thing.....

this is why I went with a 4500w element in my HLT and an 1800w rims but yes if your truly limiting the power to one of them so the draw is under 30a... This is also where a volt/amp/watt meter comes in handy on the panel. with the ezboils I suspect it may work because of the faster cycle time...

 

[clearwaterbrewer]

No, the EZBoils (DSPRxxx) are not PWM. They are pulse count modulated.

I used the acronym PWM very loosely since it is common on this forum... Yes, you are technically correct it is pulse count modulation...

Think about it, any zero-crossing SSR connected to a PWM source instantly becomes PCM..... draw it out on a piece of paper. I think this is how they can say they 'spread them out'. That is what is happening if you make it something like a .1 second mainframe... I helped them come up with the version that has the two relay outputs a few years back, and I currently use the DSPR400 in a distillery controller.


I have played the same Russian roulette with my BCS brewery controller with 3 outlets with 5500w elements on a 50A cord for 10 years, and am still uncomfortable with the chance of all three coming on and warming up the wire while not setting the circuit breaker off... I am an electrical engineer and say that you should not trust the circuit breaker..

Please don't burn down your house...

Other things to read:
chuckjaxfl 5 years ago talkign about splitting up the time in software
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/30a-three-vessels-running-quazi-simultaneously.408223/

7 years ago my post on the BCS forum thinking about how to use digital logic gates on the input to the SSR's to determine a 'priority' system:
https://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=591&hilit=priority

 

[augiedoggy]

I used the acronym PWM very loosely since it is common on this forum... Yes, you are technically correct it is pulse count modulation...

Think about it, any zero-crossing SSR connected to a PWM source instantly becomes PCM..... draw it out on a piece of paper. I think this is how they can say they 'spread them out'. That is what is happening if you make it something like a .1 second mainframe... I helped them come up with the version that has the two relay outputs a few years back, and I currently use the DSPR400 in a distillery controller.


I have played the same Russian roulette with my BCS brewery controller with 3 outlets with 5500w elements on a 50A cord for 10 years, and am still uncomfortable with the chance of all three coming on and warming up the wire while not setting the circuit breaker off... I am an electrical engineer and say that you should not trust the circuit breaker..

Please don't burn down your house...

Other things to read:
chuckjaxfl 5 years ago talkign about splitting up the time in software
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/30a-three-vessels-running-quazi-simultaneously.408223/

7 years ago my post on the BCS forum thinking about how to use digital logic gates on the input to the SSR's to determine a 'priority' system:
https://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=591&hilit=priority

I wonder if this can be done with software like brucontrol with an output device that automatically maps the pulse timing of the outputs/elements involved?
@BrunDog ? Is it feasible? Youve been blazing new trails lately. This would be a good breakthrough for many homebrewers with a 30a dryer outlet in their basement.