Extract to all grain

[Katfeesh]

Well, the good news is you have the opportunity to learn a lot.
[/QUOTE
That is true just started doing all grain after not brewing for about 3 years feels like I'm starting over

 

[marc1]

Well fermentation stalled at 1.050 og was 1.090 guess I didn't get the yeast right for the batch

Can you go over your recipe, brewday notes, yeast, and fermentation conditions? This sounds like something is way off.

Maybe also take a picture of where you are reading the 1.050 from on the hydrometer (and confirm that the hydrometer isn't bottoming out in the test cylinder).

 

[Katfeesh]

Here is the recipe defiantly screwed up only using one packet of yeast. That's all I used when I would do it as an extract

 

[bracconiere]

Viking pale 2-row and a pound of Briess 350 Chocolate, with an ounce of Cascade

wait a second! did one of us copy off our papers for the test? that sounds exactly like what's finishing up in my fermenter......

 

[camonick]

I hate to say it, but that recipe is kind of a mess. Your base malt only consists of 40% of the grist. 5 lbs of crystal 60??!!!! plus an additional 6+ pounds of roasted grain and sugars aren’t going to work well for a 5 gallon batch. That’s going to be sickly sweet and no surprise it didn’t finish below .050 no matter how much yeast you used. 26 IBUs of hops isn’t going to do much either. That’s why the advice about using proven recipes given above is relevant. You need to understand what everything contributes to a recipe. I doubt that will be drinkable.

 

[marc1]

Whoah! 25.5% Crystal 60 with 5% maltodextrin! This could be part of the issue. One pack of yeast for a 1.090 beer isn't helping, either.

You can try to get it to finish out more, but I'm not sure how much more there is to go.

 

[camonick]

Whoah! 25.5% Crystal 60 with 5% maltodextrin! This could be part of the issue.

View attachment 758846

Could be?

 

[marc1]

Try it and see what it tastes like. Probably sickly sweet, but maybe you'll like it.

If you hate it, the only thing I can think to do is add glucoamylase to the fermenter. It will make it all fermentable, and if the yeast is still up to it, it will take it down around 1.000. Not sure if it would taste good then, even, but probably better than now.

 

[camonick]

Well fermentation stalled at 1.050 og was 1.090 guess I didn't get the yeast right for the batch

Unfortunately, the yeast isn’t the real problem here.

 

[camonick]

Here is the recipe defiantly screwed up only using one packet of yeast. That's all I used when I would do it as an extract

Can you provide the extract recipe or a link to it? Seeing it will help everyone be able to give more useful advice.

 

[Katfeesh]

Here's the extract recipe

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Here's the extract recipe

From one the links I mentioned earlier, following those links will get to these grain bills (in percentages):

• Traditional Dark: "54% Bonlander® Munich Malt 10L, 30% Base malt, 13%, Caramel Malt 60L, 3% Black Malt"
• Golden Light: effectively 100% two row base malt.

 

[camonick]

I would try something like this—
13-15 lbs 2-row
1lb crystal 60
1lb Munich 9 °L
12 oz pale chocolate
8 oz honey malt
8 oz CaraPils
4-6 oz black patent
Use enough hops to get between 30-40 IBUs.

 

[Bobby_M]

One of the best parts of this thread is that it was suggested (and agreed to by many more) that it's best to start with some tried and true all grain recipes because conversions and seat of the pants recipe creation is an advanced move. Then the OP made grave mistakes in the conversion.

26% crystal is about 20% too much. This only ferments about half as much as other grain types.
5% maltodextrin (not fermentable at all).

The real issue is the yeast. Without knowing what the package date was on it, I can say that you underpitched by at LEAST 4 packs. If the pack was just 2 months old, you underpitched by 7 packs. Your pack may have even been older. It sounds crazy in those terms but it's true. Using dry yeast, a 1.090 ale would call for THREE 11.5 gram packs but you could get away with 2.

If you really want to keep using liquid yeast, it's best to make starters to save money. For example, you could pitch TWO packs of 2 month old yeast into a 2 liter starter and end up with the same cell count as 8 packs.

 

[Bobby_M]

I have that book. It is pretty good, too, except the author assumes that the reader will have a way of keeping his fermentation temperature down to the upper 60's at most. Myself, I don't use any chilling system and I ferment at room temp, around 72 degrees, and big beer fermenting temps often reach into the high 70's during the most vigorous part of the process. Most beginners likewise will not have a way to keep the fermenting beer cold. Someone really should write a similar book with room temperature fermenting in mind. Yeah I know, that would mean no true lagers but ales are something else. I kind of rock my own recipes and I don't care about winning prizes or conforming to a style, but I know a lot of brewers enjoy all that.

This is ridiculous. The author assumes you want to make the best beer possible. There is no way to advise someone how to violate best practices and get away with it. The temperatures listed will yield the best results. The amount of yeast suggested yields best results. The mash temperatures listed yields best results.

I suppose a caveat could have been written out that says something like "the fermentation temperatures listed will give you best results. If you wish to ferment 10F hotter, that's your prerogative but don't complain about the book if the beer sucks". That same thing could be said for ignoring any other prescription in the book.

 

[Katfeesh]

I don't know why everyone thinks this was my first all grain brew. I've been hom brewing for 9 years now and half that would be all grain brewing. I just got tired of making someone else's beer and wanted to make my own. I made this extract recipe years ago it's the one beer that all my friends and family always asks of I have some of it. I just didn't want to do it as an extract any more and bring it all grain and maybe make it better in the process. I see where I went wrong now with it I want with that much crystal 60 because both the light and dark extract have it in them. I'll cut it back and make changes all part of brewing.

 

[marc1]

I don't know why everyone thinks this was my first all grain brew. I've been hom brewing for 9 years now and half that would be all grain brewing. I just got tired of making someone else's beer and wanted to make my own. I made this extract recipe years ago it's the one beer that all my friends and family always asks of I have some of it. I just didn't want to do it as an extract any more and bring it all grain and maybe make it better in the process. I see where I went wrong now with it I want with that much crystal 60 because both the light and dark extract have it in them. I'll cut it back and make changes all part of brewing.

Good lessons can be learned from mistakes. Sometimes they are happy accidents, sometimes not

If you post the original recipe, I'm sure people will be willing to help with converting it.

 

[Katfeesh]

Good lessons can be learned from mistakes. Sometimes they are happy accidents, sometimes not

If you post the original recipe, I'm sure people will be willing to help with converting it.

I have them both in here now

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I just didn't want to do it as an extract any more and bring it all grain

Assuming 75% mash efficiency (and assuming my math is accurate), these substitutions should be a good starting point:

• For each pound of "Golden Light" DME, substitute 1.63 lbs two row base malt
• For each pound of "Traditional Dark" DME, substitute
  • 0.88 lbs Munch 10L
  • 0.49 lbs Two Row
  • 0.21 lbs Crystal 60L
  • 0.05 lbs Black malt

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Katfeesh : In #41, I see two recipes: 1) the original recipe, and 2) an "upsized" recipe.

If you are willing to post the converted all-grain recipe of the one you want to brew (based on #41), I am willing to review it.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Katfeesh : another option to consider: if the extract recipe is (or started as) a kit recipe, check to see if there is an all-grain version of the extract kit.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

One of the best parts of this thread is that it was suggested (and agreed to by many more) that it's best to start with some tried and true all grain recipes because conversions and seat of the pants recipe creation is an advanced move.

Or one could focus on the initial question (how to convert a recipe from extract to all grain), then over the duration of the topic, take turns provides the necessary information to get a converted recipe that's been reviewed.

We're almost there @Katfeesh.

Let me know if I can help.

 

[camonick]

Or one could focus on the initial question (how to convert a recipe from extract to all grain), then over the duration of the topic, take turns provides the necessary information to get a converted recipe that's been reviewed.

We're almost there @Katfeesh.

…which I did in #43. The grain bill I posted is for an “imperial” porter, which is what I assumed the OP was after, since his recipes above were for a 9ish% beer. Adjust base malts up or down in my recipe to achieve desired ABV, use the hops of your choice to get 30-40 IBUs and dose with enough yeast of your choice to finish the job. Add whatever flavorings at the appropriate time if desired and you’re golden. I’m not trying to convert the ingredients of the DME listed, just providing a decent porter recipe.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

which I did in #43.

Back in #43, I saw a range for the base malt (13-15 pounds).

If OP desires, they can use the info in #49 to narrow the range.

The choice is theirs to make.

 

[camonick]

Back in #43, I saw a range for the base malt (13-15 pounds).

If OP desires, they can use the info in #49 to narrow the range.

The choice is theirs to make.

Fair enough. I see yours is probably a more exact conversion for the DME. Even I’ve been brewing for a long time and don’t normally write my own recipes from scratch. I either steal the ingredients lists from MoreBeer or other online supply companies who publish their kit ingredients and tweak them a little or I find half a dozen or so recipes of a style I want to make, look for common ingredients, discard some of the off-the-wall stuff or things that aren’t really appropriate for the style and then morph them into my own design. I still keep in mind all the appropriate percentages or amounts of all the specialty grains.

 

[marc1]

I have them both in here now

I see the pictures, but there's other scribbles on there, too. Can you type it out so that it's easy to look at and understand? I see stuff like Flaked oats 1lb = .25, which is confusing.

With at least OG/FG/IBU, volume after boil and volume in fermenter (specify kettle losses and top up water, if any); and then the fermentables, with schedule if there are late additions, and then the hop schedule.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't know why everyone thinks this was my first all grain brew. I've been hom brewing for 9 years now and half that would be all grain brewing.

I hope you weren't too insulted there but the original question and subsequent recipe came across as all grain noobish. If that assumption was correct, I think the advice to stay away from conversions would have been sound. My mistake.

Aside from the conversion advice already given that answers your question directly, one other resource that should help is that most maltsters list the usage percentage for each of their grains which acts as a last sanity check that you're not overdoing something.

I also hope you take my advice on yeast pitch rates.

 

[Katfeesh]

Ok so I been messing with the recipe I think I might have something now.

 

[Katfeesh]

I hope you weren't too insulted there but the original question and subsequent recipe came across as all grain noobish. If that assumption was correct, I think the advice to stay away from conversions would have been sound. My mistake.

No I wasn't insulted. I guess in a sense I am kinda of a noob this extract recipe is the only recipe I ever made I always brew others recipes I just didnt want to start a square 1 making a new one. But with all the help I've gotten with this I think I will start trying to change and make recipes now more often.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It appears the topic has changed from "extract to all grain" to "can some one review this recipe?". I do not have an opinion on the recipe in #58; but I'll continue to watch the thread in case it goes back to "extract to all grain".