Experts on all grain equipment needed

[tnbrewer371]

Looking to go all grain and be able to brew 5 gal batches up to 1.090 OG, and am looking for some advice as to what equipment to set myself up with, heres my questions, thanks in advance for the advice:

1. Is a 7.5 (30 QT) Gallon brewpot and turkey fryer (30,000 BTU) burner sufficient?

2. What type of MLT should I set myself up with assuming money is not the main issue and am looking to get great efficiency?

3. What type of manifold should I use to get the greatest efficiency or which is best once again assuming money is not the main consideration? i.e. bazooka screen, stainless steel mesh screen, false bottom, pvc manifold, etc?

4. Which is more efficient batch sparging or fly sparging? Which is more time consuming? Can you do both with the same MLT/Manifold?

Thanks in advance trying to get setup by the New Year, dont worry brewed forty gallons of extra batches the last eight weeks to hold me over till i get AG setup started.

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

1. Is a 7.5 (30 QT) Gallon brewpot and turkey fryer (30,000 BTU) burner sufficient?

That size is borderline. I would go with something bigger. Me, I use a keggle. The burner should work, but a 50,000+ will get your boil going faster. I use heatsticks.

2. What type of MLT should I set myself up with assuming money is not the main issue and am looking to get great efficiency?

Coolers hold heat best. If you use a foam "float" on top of the mash, you can see a less than one degree heat loss in a hour.

3. What type of manifold should I use to get the greatest efficiency or which is best once again assuming money is not the main consideration? i.e. bazooka screen, stainless steel mesh screen, false bottom, pvc manifold, etc?

I use a SS braid, though I have heard a false bottom might be more efficient. For batch sparging, I don't really think it matters.

4. Which is more efficient batch sparging or fly sparging? Which is more time consuming? Can you do both with the same MLT/Manifold?

Batch sparging is faster, fly sparging is a little more efficient. A false bottom works better for fly sparging.

Where in Tennessee are you located?

Here is my rig. Still getting the pumps keyed in.

 

[wildwest450]

10 gallon pot minimum for 5.5 gallon batches, imo. I prefer 15, you can do an occasional 10 gallon batch without to much trouble. Any cooler/braid manifold combo is capable of yielding 80%+ . Fly sparging is slower, and efficiency gains are debatable at best.

If you're close to Sparta, feel free to come over next time I do a batch, and watch me fumble through a session.

 

[joeunc]

I am able to do 5.5 batches in an 8 gallon with some fermcap I never get close to a boilover. I have a 15gallon also, but most of the time wind up using the 8 gallon.

10 gallon pot minimum for 5.5 gallon batches, imo. I prefer 15, you can do an occasional 10 gallon batch without to much trouble. Any cooler/braid manifold combo is capable of yielding 80%+ . Fly sparging is slower, and efficiency gains are debatable at best.

If you're close to Sparta, feel free to come over next time I do a batch, and watch me fumble through a session.

 

[motobrewer]

Looking to go all grain and be able to brew 5 gal batches up to 1.090 OG, and am looking for some advice as to what equipment to set myself up with, heres my questions, thanks in advance for the advice:

1. Is a 7.5 (30 QT) Gallon brewpot and turkey fryer (30,000 BTU) burner sufficient?

2. What type of MLT should I set myself up with assuming money is not the main issue and am looking to get great efficiency?

3. What type of manifold should I use to get the greatest efficiency or which is best once again assuming money is not the main consideration? i.e. bazooka screen, stainless steel mesh screen, false bottom, pvc manifold, etc?

4. Which is more efficient batch sparging or fly sparging? Which is more time consuming? Can you do both with the same MLT/Manifold?

Thanks in advance trying to get setup by the New Year, dont worry brewed forty gallons of extra batches the last eight weeks to hold me over till i get AG setup started.

1. I would not get a 7.5 gallon pot. It'll work, i've been using one for the last year, but it really, really sucks. best investment you can make is a good, big, pot. it'll last forever. 10 gallon minimum

2. Again, don't go small. I use a 5 gallon, and I can barely get into the 1.060's. I just ordered a 58 quart.

3. I've been using a false bottom, but I'm going to switch to a braid. I've had nothing but issues with wheats/adjunct mashes. All barley are usually fine, but nothing special.

4. I batch, never fly'd. Seems definitely easier. I average 70% efficiency, but I think i'm doing a few things wrong....

I am able to do 5.5 batches in an 8 gallon with some fermcap I never get close to a boilover. I have a 15gallon also, but most of the time wind up using the 8 gallon.

are you topping off after the boil? because I do the same, and I have to fill it to the brim. AG worts certainly don't boil-over like extract worts, but I always have to top off with about 1/2 gallon for a 5.5 gallon batch, because I boil off so much in 60 minutes. Its pretty dry here, tho.

 

[wildwest450]

I am able to do 5.5 batches in an 8 gallon with some fermcap I never get close to a boilover. I have a 15gallon also, but most of the time wind up using the 8 gallon.

We'll my preboil is over 8 gallons. It matters how much you boil off.

 

[MrHat]

I've been brewing on a similar system for several years now. Here are a few pointers based on my experience:

1. I would go for a bigger boil kettle. I selected an 8 gallon and normally make a 5.5 gallon batch. Depending on your evaporation rate and length of boil, you may not be able to fit the contents in the pot to start the boil. Brewing 5.5G of Pliny the Elder clone from Zymurgy requires 8.9 gallons of water in the pot to start (90 min boil, 1077 OG, tons of hop absorption). So either use a larger pot or count on adding top up water in some instances.

The size of a burner, IMO, is really about how much time and money you have. I used a turkey fryer burner (45k) for several years and it works. But of course, it wont boil nearly as fast as the guys using the 100k burners. With 7.75 gallons of liquid in my 8 Gallon pot, I can get from 130 to boil in about 25-30 minutes.

2. I use a converted 10G orange cooler (Rubbermaid from HD) with a braided stainless steel hose and simple ball valve. I've made over 200 gallons of beer on it and my MLT effiiciency is normally 68-72%. The only issues I've had are with Oats, Rye and Wheat sticking the sparge. The addition of rice hulls has worked like a champ to resolve the stuck sparge. The cooler was about $30 and I spent another $25-$35 on misc parts for the manifold. My rubbermaid MLT has never lost more than 2 degrees over an hour (post stabilization). I also pre-heat my MLT every time and this has done more for hitting my target temp than any other technique. I strongly recommend pre-heating if you use a cooler type MLT.

The 10G cooler will support your batch size and gravity requirements, depending on your water-to-grist ratio. At 68% efficiency, you'll need a minimum of 18# of grist to achieve your target 1090. Using 1.25 qt / 1# ratio, you'll need ~7 gallons of space in the MLT. I use Green Bay Rackers "Can I mash it" calculator here:
http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

3. My SS manifold has worked very well. I lose very little liquid in the bottom of the MLT (.25 L or so) and there is no real deadspace. Everyone has their favorite, but I can tell you that the SS braid works well when implemented properly and is pretty low cost. Which method is the "best" often comes down to opinion. For the cost, my efficiency is more than acceptable to me and if I really need more gravity I'd spend the $.89 and get and extra pound of grain. I'd rather spend my time brewing than chasing 1 or 2 points of efficiency.

4. Check this thread regarding batch v. fly
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/batch-vs-fly-steve-holle-article-byo-55164/

 

[joeunc]

i do go up near the top, a good 7.5 gallon boil at least. Never boiled over. Now you do have to monitor your flame. No need to keep it at full blast once the rolling boil is achieved, once I boiled too vigorously and was under 5, so I have backed the flame off some and get to about 5.5 or 6.

are you topping off after the boil? because I do the same, and I have to fill it to the brim. AG worts certainly don't boil-over like extract worts, but I always have to top off with about 1/2 gallon for a 5.5 gallon batch, because I boil off so much in 60 minutes. Its pretty dry here, tho.

 

[motobrewer]

yeah, i don't boil that vigorously and still end up below 5.5, usually below 5.

I attribute a lot of that to living in WI, NC is much, much more humid.

Regardless, 7.5 gal is bare bones minimum to survive. I'd like to collect more than 7.5 gal of wort, but can't.

 

[tnbrewer371]

im ok with adding a half gallon or so to top off after i put it all in the fermenter i feel doing so with tap water from my extendable hand nozzle ( i know many frown upon this ) helps me really oxegenate my wort and i have never had an infection (20+ 5 gallon batches), so adding a bit is not a big deal to me i just want to be sure im not going to be limited by my pot, but i could always boil any extra run off over 7 gallons that wouldnt fit in my brewpot (proposed 7.5 gallon pot) and add it to the fermenter with the main boil wort right? also this would help me get better utilazation of my hops right? even though it would be hard to measure?

 

[motobrewer]

a 7.5 gallon pot is a limitation for 5 gallon all-grain

i strongly recommend 10g minimum. i've brewed 13 5g all-grain batches this year, and every time i wish i had a bigger pot.

 

[tnbrewer371]

a 7.5 gallon pot is a limitation for 5 gallon all-grain

i strongly recommend 10g minimum. i've brewed 13 5g all-grain batches this year, and every time i wish i had a bigger pot.

are you using a 7.5 gallon pot? if not what size are you using and what do you find the limitation is? if you are what is the reason you feel you wish you had a bigger pot?

 

[motobrewer]

i'm using a 7.5 gallon.

the biggest issue is that i can only runoff 6 - 6.5 gallons of wort, which leads me to top off. That isn't a big deal in itself, but doing this kills my efficiency. I'm pretty maxed at 70%.

then there's boilover, yeah you can use fermcap to prevent, but, then you have to use fermcap.

what are your reasons for not getting a 10g pot?

 

[tnbrewer371]

i guess my main reason is that 7.5 gallon pots are cheap (like 20 dollars) as opposed to buying a larger brewpot i cant find anything but expensive ten gallon pots??

 

[motobrewer]

$20 pot!? what's it made out of? mine was $80 i think, stainless.

i'll also note that the bottom of my pot has already deformed a bit, cause it's cheap (but not that cheap i guess)

i donno, a good, big, pot will last your entire brewing career. i would strongly suggest investing in a decent one.

go back to the first page and read MrHat's post. hop absorption, longer boils....you get severely limited with a small pot.

 

[tnbrewer371]

the 7.5 gal pot im looking at is a turkey frying pot 30 qt and is 20$ with lid, but still havent made up my mind, but definately not looking to invest over a hundred on a new pot, just not feasible at the moment, looking at going to an entirely electric non tiered three or four station system with pumps actually, but gonna take time planning and most importantly money to get there so looking really for a pot that i can use to get started in AG and than be able to use the rest of my pieces (minus the pot) in my planned setup.

 

[wildwest450]

the 7.5 gal pot im looking at is a turkey frying pot 30 qt and is 20$ with lid, but still havent made up my mind, but definately not looking to invest over a hundred on a new pot, just not feasible at the moment, looking at going to an entirely electric non tiered three or four station system with pumps actually, but gonna take time planning and most importantly money to get there so looking really for a pot that i can use to get started in AG and than be able to use the rest of my pieces (minus the pot) in my planned setup.

If you eventually are going to do that, it's crazy to waste money on a pot that will never make that transition. You can get a nice 10 or 15 gallon pot for WAY under $100, and it will last forever. Trust me on this, I have a 7.5 gallon turkey pot in my garage that will never be used again.

 

[tnbrewer371]

Where can you find a ten to fifteen gallon pot for under a hundred dollars??

 

[wildwest450]

Where can you find a ten to fifteen gallon pot for under a hundred dollars??

There all over, here's a nsf rated pot for under $60.


http://www.instawares.com/stock-pot-aluminum-60.alsksp009.0.7.htm


http://cgi.ebay.com/New-60-Quart-St...ultDomain_0&hash=item35a2ad3261#ht_682wt_1139

 

[tnbrewer371]

So u couldn't just add any runnings over 7 gal to the brewpot as you boil off? Or boil it seperately? I'm not looking to do anything larger than 5 gal batches?

 

[tnbrewer371]

Looking to go all grain and be able to brew 5 gal batches up to 1.090 OG, and am looking for some advice as to what equipment to set myself up with, heres my questions, thanks in advance for the advice:

1. Is a 7.5 (30 QT) Gallon brewpot and turkey fryer (30,000 BTU) burner sufficient?

2. What type of MLT should I set myself up with assuming money is not the main issue and am looking to get great efficiency?

3. What type of manifold should I use to get the greatest efficiency or which is best once again assuming money is not the main consideration? i.e. bazooka screen, stainlessan steel mesh screen, false bottom, pvc manifold, etc?

4. Which is more efficient batch sparging or fly sparging? Which is more time consuming? Can you do both with the same MLT/Manifold?


Anyone....anyone?
Thanks in advance trying to get setup by the New Year, dont worry brewed forty gallons of extra batches the last eight weeks to hold me over till i get AG setup started.

Anyone anyone?

 

[motobrewer]

Anyone anyone?

lol, don't like my advice?

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

I think you've gotten pretty good advice so far. When I first started brewing, 20 years ago, I used an 8 gallon ceramic coated pot. It served my needs for a couple years, but I was much happier when I switched to a keggle.

Today, I wouldn't recommend anything but a keggle. If you ask around, watch craigslist, etc., you'll find an unconverted keg free or cheap. Bobby M has a video on cutting open the top to convert it. There are many, many people who are using these in their all electric systems (Including me, but I'm using a heatstick). Using weldless fittings, you can manipulate the keg any way you see fit, without worrying about ruining an expensive pot.

I happen to like the Igloo Cube cooler as a mash tun. The 60qt (15 Gal) size sells at Sam's club for about $27, which is less than half the cost of the 10Gal Gott cooler. I use a tube manifold rather than the braided stainless or false bottom. The manifold will work with batch or fly sparging. There are several threads here on how to convert those. (See, you just saved some money that you can spend on a better kettle).

When I first started with all grain, all I ever knew was fly sparging, and that's pretty much what I stuck with. But there are plenty of people in the KISS camp who would argue that's it's not worth the extra time or effort, and I'm not inclined to disagree. But here's an easy way to test it for yourself, no special equipment needed: Simply attach a piece of foam to tubing from your HLT and let it float on top of the mash. Then just watch that the level doesn't get too low, and sparge away. You'll be using a very low flow, so there are noworries about disturbing the grain bed. I guarantee you'll get the same efficiency as a fancy sparging sprinkler. On your next batch, use a batch sparge. Compare you're efficiencies and your beers, and decide which you like better. Once you get going, you may decide to use different sparge methods for different beers.

Hope this helps,

Moose

 

[tnbrewer371]

I think you've gotten pretty good advice so far. When I first started brewing, 20 years ago, I used an 8 gallon ceramic coated pot. It served my needs for a couple years, but I was much happier when I switched to a keggle.

Today, I wouldn't recommend anything but a keggle. If you ask around, watch craigslist, etc., you'll find an unconverted keg free or cheap. Bobby M has a video on cutting open the top to convert it. There are many, many people who are using these in their all electric systems (Including me, but I'm using a heatstick). Using weldless fittings, you can manipulate the keg any way you see fit, without worrying about ruining an expensive pot.

I happen to like the Igloo Cube cooler as a mash tun. The 60qt (15 Gal) size sells at Sam's club for about $27, which is less than half the cost of the 10Gal Gott cooler. I use a tube manifold rather than the braided stainless or false bottom. The manifold will work with batch or fly sparging. There are several threads here on how to convert those. (See, you just saved some money that you can spend on a better kettle).

When I first started with all grain, all I ever knew was fly sparging, and that's pretty much what I stuck with. But there are plenty of people in the KISS camp who would argue that's it's not worth the extra time or effort, and I'm not inclined to disagree. But here's an easy way to test it for yourself, no special equipment needed: Simply attach a piece of foam to tubing from your HLT and let it float on top of the mash. Then just watch that the level doesn't get too low, and sparge away. You'll be using a very low flow, so there are noworries about disturbing the grain bed. I guarantee you'll get the same efficiency as a fancy sparging sprinkler. On your next batch, use a batch sparge. Compare you're efficiencies and your beers, and decide which you like better. Once you get going, you may decide to use different sparge methods for different beers.

Hope this helps,

Moose

moose thats some solid advice thanks! what source of heat do most people use if they make themselves a keggle? propane? electric? NG? are there alot of options for both sources?

 

[tnbrewer371]

lol, don't like my advice?

moto i def did like your advice just trying to gather a broad spectrum of advice from alot of people to figure out what will and what wont work for me as i move towards getting my AG setup completed before my stockpile runs dry.....

if i havent said it thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far to this thread

 

[tnbrewer371]

moose is this what your talking about for a MT:http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=prod1180460&navAction=
if so what is your manifold constructed out of CPVC? copper? did you drill through the sidewall to tap into it?

 

[JohnTheBrewist]

Yep, that's the one. I made a cpvc manifold like this one, but with drilled holes. I'll probably eventually change it to copper tube though and drill through the front. Because the only thing I don't like about the current setup is that the lid is hinged on back so the lid is in the way when doughing in from the valve side.

The keggle will work with any heat source you choose, most use propane for its simplicity.

Moose

 

[tnbrewer371]

Nice thanks moose yah 27 bucks at sams sure beats a 60 dollar bev cooler elsewhere? Any suggestions for drilling through the sidewall to put the ball valve in?

 

[wildwest450]

Nice thanks moose yah 27 bucks at sams sure beats a 60 dollar bev cooler elsewhere? Any suggestions for drilling through the sidewall to put the ball valve in?

You shouldn't have to, just remove the spigot. There's a vendor on here "bargain fittings", he will have everything you need at the best prices and service.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night! Part of the charm of all grain is mixing it all together and letting her rip. You'll know if your burner is sufficient just by using it. You don't need an overkill burner, unless you like paying for propane that isn't heating your pot. A braid or false bottom will work great in a cooler. Lots of guys actually "downgrade" from an expensive MLT to a cooler because they work so well. BobbyM has a pretty accurate spreadsheet on mlt size and og of batches; search "this is how big your mashtun needs to be".....