expensive ag ?

[MarcusKillion]

color me crazy but I spend about 20 to 30 bucks for partial and no boil kits and make some very good beer . Some I do add in a some grains for extra flavor . How ever I just did my first all grain . 47 bucks ! 5 gallons . took me half a day to do it instead of 1 hour . It was a nut brown .
So I thought AG was supposed to be cheaper . Hmmmm.

Okay one more thing on AG . volume of water was way too much in my opinion , 7.88 gallons and took me 1 hour and 20 minutes to boil down to 5 gallons at a full hard boil . Hope that did not affect the bittering hops too much.
Also used a large cooler for tun and when I poured in my 165 water it dropped to 130 so I had to drain some off several times and get it to boil and pour back over grain to get temp up . Hope the slight time it was very hot does not ruin my beer. Think I will switch to a igloo beverage cooler instead of the ice chest as it is smaller diameter and should not loose so much heat when adding in water.

so any comments ? Especially on cost of grain . did I just use a high cost recipe ?

9 pds pale malt
1 pound caramel malt
1 pound oats
.50 victory malt
.25 chocolate malt
1 oz fuggles
1 oz goldings kent
2 packs nottingham

keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .

 

[WoodlandBrew]

All grain brewing is much less expensive for me. About three quarters the cost because I save my yeast from one batch the the next so that doesn't factor in. There are a number of other advantages as well like control and consistency.

Cost per gravity point:
DME 11.3 cents
LME 10.8 cents
barley malt (at 70% efficiency) 7.0 cents. Even cheaper if you buy a 50lb bag.

 

[Yooper]

Well, the no-boil kits are definitely the cheapest way to go. But I didn't like the quality. If you're totally satisfied with the quality, you probably won't save money by going AG unless you can get in on some bulk grain buys and mill your own grain.

That said, $47 for a 5 gallon batch is outrageous. You doubled the cost of yeast, as you didn't need two packages, but that is only about $3 "extra".

Since I pay for grain at less than $1/pound (except for specialty grains), that recipe you listed would cost me about $19. It would actually be less, as I don't usually buy hops individually, and buy them by the pound. But if you're buying them individually they are often $2-3 an ounce.

But the hops are the same cost no matter what kind of brewing you do (except for those prehopped kits). The biggest cost savings comes from buying grain, which is cheaper than DME. DME is $12 or so for three pounds, and you need two packages for a 5 gallon batch. Grain is cheaper than that. 9 pounds of base grain would equal about 5 pounds of DME, so the costs there would be $20 for the extract, and $7 for the grain. That's a $13 savings. The rest would all be the same.

You either got totally ripped off on the grain, or something else isn't right in your $47 batch.

 

[Hex23]

keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .

I presume you don't have an LHBS available? I realize that rounding up is a fact with ordering ala-carte online, but my LHBS will take a recipe and mix/grind all the right amounts. Still $47 sounds really high. Shop around for better grain prices.

As far as having to remove wort mid-mash and boil, that should not be a problem, because it is alot like decoction mashing.

 

[huntingohio]

I agree all grain is super cheap, DME at my lhbs is around $5 a pound as apposed to 2 lbs of 2 row [what my normal pale alle uses] bein less than $4
It would be 75% of that if I bought a 50 lb bag but I think im going to wait till income tax time to do it since I need a new mill and quiet a few more fermenters

 

[sketerbuck]

I run a LHBS and this is a 25-30 dollar recipe. Do you know how much you paid per item.

 

[weirdboy]

The last $40+ AG batch I made was a huge double imperial IPA with over a pound of hops in it. Most of my batches cost far less than that.

 

[bottlebomber]

You got totally raped on that one man.. For 47 dollars I could brew a 10 gallon batch of barleywine. Try Brewmasters Warehouse if you don't have a LHBS, the prices are good, AFAIK he still does flat shipping unlike some of the others are doing now, and his crush is great so you shouldn't have to over sparge to get fair efficiency.

 

[b-boy]

Did you include your shipping in that cost?

 

[JRems]

That is way too much. I usually buy whole sacks and split sacks of specialty grain. That recipe would cost me about $14. It would cost $11 if I used washed yeast.

 

[Gear101]

I just made an 11 gallon brew day for 44usd, yeast and everything. Maybe look at some of the board sponsors.

Austin, Midwest, farmhouse and northern are all good companies with more than superior pricing.

 

[johngault007]

My batches got significantly cheaper moving to all grain. My biggest savings come by buying my base malt in bulk. My LHBS gives a bulk discount and then stacks at 10% military discount on top of it saving me almost $1 per pound.

Additionally, like mentioned before, reusing yeast or making a starter from one tube/pack of yeast for 5+ gallon batches.

Also, invest in a good burner if you are going to stick with AG. You WILL use a great deal more water and the turkey fryer from your local retail store just won't cut it for time.

 

[RmikeVT]

Thats seems really expensive.
My AG brews cost much less than my extract brews. Also, I usually collect 7 gallons of wort and boil an hour and get 5.75-6 gallons into the fermenter.

 

[KuntzBrewing]

Greatfermentations.com you don't have to buy whole lbs of grain or full oz of hops, flat rate shipping for most orders also. Its my "L" hbs (about an hour away that's why I buy online) but prices aren't too high and free crushing, (I get about 72% efficiency with their crush)

 

[Golddiggie]

Best way to seriously save when going all grain is to get in on group grain buys. Get enough grain (at least base malt) to carry you through to the next group grain buy. Most homebrew clubs do at least a couple of grain buys a year. There are more posted on the boards here too. You can easily get your base malt for under $1/# even after all the shipping is included.

BTW, my 15% barleywine batch (brewed on the 27th) came to just under $47. That was with two vials of yeast costs, and 30# of grain. Only used 4oz of hops in it, so that wasn't bad.

Also get your hops in bulk when they're on sale/special. Get a vacuum packer (food saver) and use that to repack them once opened. Keep the hops in the freezer and you're set.

If you want to save even more, you can also look into washing yeast and even freezing it. IF you have the space to do so. Make yeast starters and you reduce how much yeast you'll buy.

You can usually get DME in 3# bags that are less per pound than getting 1# bags. At the LHBS, a 1# bag is $5. The 3# bag is $14. I use the DME for starters, so the 3# bag lasts some time. :rockin:

 

[bredstein]

[...] I just did my first all grain . 47 bucks! 5 gallons. [...] so any comments ? Especially on cost of grain . did I just use a high cost recipe ?

9 pds pale malt
1 pound caramel malt
1 pound oats
.50 victory malt
.25 chocolate malt
1 oz fuggles
1 oz goldings kent
2 packs nottingham

keeping in mind that i had to buy 1 pound of each malt .

Hey, I've just brewed exactly the same nut brown yesterday! I think you payed way too much. My local store (Just Brew It, South Atlanta, GA) charged me 23.40, but I bought only one package of yeast, and whatever amount of specialty grains that the recipe called for:

9 lb pale malt - 9x0.99=8.91
1 lb flaked oats - 1x1.89=1.89
1.75 lb specialty grains - 1.75x1.89=3.31
1 oz fuggles - 1.99
1 oz goldings kent - 1.99
1 pack nottingham - 3.99
6% tax - 1.32
TOTAL: 23.40

 

[Golddiggie]

$2/ounce of hops??? Wow... I haven't paid close to that in some time. Most I paid, in the past year, was $1/oz for EKG. HopeDirect has much better pricing.

 

[bredstein]

$2/ounce of hops??? Wow... I haven't paid close to that in some time. Most I paid, in the past year, was $1/oz for EKG. HopeDirect has much better pricing.

Yes, it is on my list of future improvements... Ideally I would like to grow and harvest my own hops

 

[TrubDog]

At my LHBS the grain and hops came in at $13.45 per your recipe and they only sell hops in 2oz packets. I wash and reuse my own yeast so it makes for a pretty affordable batch. You really need to shop around!

 

[JRems]

Hey, I've just brewed exactly the same nut brown yesterday! I think you payed way too much. My local store (Just Brew It, South Atlanta, GA) charged me 23.40, but I bought only one package of yeast, and whatever amount of specialty grains that the recipe called for:

9 lb pale malt - 9x0.99=8.91
1 lb flaked oats - 1x1.89=1.89
1.75 lb specialty grains - 1.75x1.89=3.31
1 oz fuggles - 1.99
1 oz goldings kent - 1.99
1 pack nottingham - 3.99
6% tax - 1.32
TOTAL: 23.40

you have to pay tax? In NY all food items aren't taxed. Grain and yeast are food items, I think hops are considered herbs? They don't seem to be taxed either.

 

[Golddiggie]

Yes, it is on my list of future improvements... Ideally I would like to grow and harvest my own hops

Not an option for me (growing hops) since I'm using all UK hops. Besides, I have a freezer almost full of hops (been working on reducing how much is in there). It's the freezer that's the top second of my brew fridge (a 10 cubic foot freezer top fridge). I need to see how many pounds of hops I have in there currently.

BTW, look at what Farmhouse Brewing Supply has for prices on 4oz packets of hops. They offer package sizes of 1oz, 4oz and 1#... :rockin: I used to get my hops from them in 4oz packets (all they offered at the time).

 

[bredstein]

Not an option for me (growing hops) since I'm using all UK hops. Besides, I have a freezer almost full of hops (been working on reducing how much is in there). It's the freezer that's the top second of my brew fridge (a 10 cubic foot freezer top fridge). I need to see how many pounds of hops I have in there currently.

BTW, look at what Farmhouse Brewing Supply has for prices on 4oz packets of hops. They offer package sizes of 1oz, 4oz and 1#... :rockin: I used to get my hops from them in 4oz packets (all they offered at the time).

How do you estimate the shelf life of frozen hops (sealed and resealed)?

 

[bottlebomber]

How do you estimate the shelf life of frozen hops (sealed and resealed)?

It is good to break them down to packages of 4 ounces if you buy pounds, and seal them. Do that and they will last a good 2 years.

 

[pelipen]

Also used a large cooler for tun and when I poured in my 165 water it dropped to 130 so I had to drain some off several times and get it to boil and pour back over grain to get temp up .

preheat that tun. I heat water well over strike temp, then dump in the grain when it reaches strike temp. Stays steady for the hour.

 

[FATC1TY]

Going AG was way way way cheaper for me... I did a stout, that for extract cost me over $60 all in.

I brewed a WAY bigger russian imperial stout, that was way bigger in AG, with more hops, and even more yeast for a starter, and it cost me only $42 bucks.

 

[Mojzis]

That is way too much. I usually buy whole sacks and split sacks of specialty grain. That recipe would cost me about $14. It would cost $11 if I used washed yeast.

I 2nd that. Overspending seems to be what happened. Brew days typically run about 4.5 hours, and imo boiling 7.9 gal of water to 5 is too much. Try less sparge or mash water.

 

[Golddiggie]

It is good to break them down to packages of 4 ounces if you buy pounds, and seal them. Do that and they will last a good 2 years.

I've done that, as well as just put what's left into another vacuum sealed bag. I have plenty of bags for the food saver on hand, plus some rolls. When I was brewing at my buddy's place, I would break the pound of hops into 1-2oz packets to take with me. Made it easier that way.

I hope/expect to have all of the current hops used up before they are 2 years old. Luckily, most of them are still in their original sealed bags.

 

[Glynn]

i spent 39.33 at my local and got
15 lb marris otter
1 lb crystal 2
3 oz palisade hops
1 lb corn sugar
and a pack of wyeast american ale
but there crusher sucks and i only got a 66% mash eff which really ticks me off

 

[dietz31684]

My LHBS has bulk extract for $1.99/lb so i dont save any money and it takes more time but I like it.

 

[revco]

I don't know...being able to absolutely control the overall taste of the extract with AG would be worth more to me, but I'd agree that something isn't right here. I averaged $40-$55 for 5 gallon extract batches and between $25-$35 for all grain, depending on hops and whether I use premium yeast. If the bulk of the recipe is 2-row, it usually falls into the ~$20 range since I can buy that in bulk for cheap. And I'm in MT, where economy of scale makes everything more expensive.