exchange of rare rhizomes

[lurker18]

From work, shipping grain around the world, there are multiple tests that need to be done on things like this to move between countries. Just because you have an import or export permit does not mean you can ship everything. Each shipment needs to go through phytosanitary testing before shipping, even same crops going to same destination, all lots need to be tested. Testing for grain is usually at least a week turnaround, and the cost depends on where it is going as each country looks for different pests and diseases. Unless you are a company that is set up to get things like this done fairly regularly, I can't see is being possible. Even sending hop seeds would need to go through a phyto to be shipped. Actual live plants would be an even tougher task I assume.

 

[Apimyces]

From work, shipping grain around the world, there are multiple tests that need to be done on things like this to move between countries. Just because you have an import or export permit does not mean you can ship everything. Each shipment needs to go through phytosanitary testing before shipping, even same crops going to same destination, all lots need to be tested. Testing for grain is usually at least a week turnaround, and the cost depends on where it is going as each country looks for different pests and diseases. Unless you are a company that is set up to get things like this done fairly regularly, I can't see is being possible. Even sending hop seeds would need to go through a phyto to be shipped. Actual live plants would be an even tougher task I assume.

That's not actually the case. I'm not saying it's not true for you, but as I mentioned as an example in my previous message, large grain shipments have a very different legal framework than small seed lots for non-grain crops. If I want to import 250kg of corn seeds into Canada, then I have a lot of hurdles concerning permits and varietal registration. If I want to import 250 hop seeds into Canada, I don't need any paperwork at all. That's because our laws have "small seed lot" exemptions for anything under two given amounts (depending on if it's small seeded or large seeded, the weight limit differs). And that's hard baked into our seed laws, and the grain restrictions are not part of the default seed regulations, but tacked on top of them.

To contrast, the United States also has small seed lot exemptions, but from my research it looks like americans need to actively request this exemption instead of benefiting from it automatically.

For most countries (obviously some cases like Australia might differ), but sending a handful of non-grain seeds is subject to no legal restriction or oversight whatsoever, at most asking a negligible amount of paperwork. It's not impossible that hop seeds be specifically regulated in some countries, maybe those with larger hop industries, but the fact is that for the most part, regulators on average don't care at all about hop seeds, simply ignoring them when not outright excluding them from formal restrictions.

Furthermore, a lot of the national regulations regarding seeds follow international treaties, and are largely alike, with a bit of variation depending on interpretation and which version of the treaties are being adhered to, so I very much doubt that only Canada and the USA have their own version of "small seed lot exemptions", most countries probably have it in some form. For reference, I could import up to about 175 000 hop seeds (500g) before needing a permit for it.

 

[lurker18]

I was not talking about large grain shipment, I mean small test samples being sent around the world for research and baking trials, they all need to go through phyto before leaving Canada. However there are policies in place depending on what the research being done is. If the seeds are to be destroyed, ie baking, the needs are really reduced. However, if the seeds are to be propagated, the need for phyto is mandatory.
Agree that small seed lots do not need to provide the paperwork, but they still fall under the seeds act, and must follow the act just the same as any "big" importation. The importer must follow the seeds act, and be responsible for the paperwork and proof the seeds act was followed if requested.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I very much doubt that only Canada and the USA have their own version of "small seed lot exemptions", most countries probably have it in some form.

Actually I doubt it, it's not the sort of thing that countries that are serious about plant health would do.

I didn't have anything to do with seeds when I was involved with this stuff so don't quote me on this, but it doesn't sound the sort of exemption that the EU would give.

 

[lurker18]

The small seeds exemption is not an exemption from testing, that is still required is requested by whoever is in charge of pulling these things in (boarder patrol for example). The exemption is only that small seeds do not require the paperwork on every shipment.

Seeds in small packets, intended primarily for home gardens, and imported by home gardeners or by commercial businesses, must comply with the requirements of the Seeds Act and Seeds Regulations. Imported seed must not contain Canadian prohibited noxious weed seeds and must meet the minimum standards for other weed and crop seed as prescribed by the Seeds Regulations. The importer is required to keep the seed separate from all other seed and intact in its packaging at the import's first destination until a Notice of Import Conformity is issued indicating that the seed meets the requirements of the Seeds Regulations unless an exemption to this requirement applies.

"Small lots" of seed, that is quantities of less than 5 kg of large seeded kinds such as peas, beans and corn or quantities of less than 500 g of small seeded kinds such as carrot or alfalfa, are exempted from providing an import declaration or a seed analysis certificate and do not require an ICA. Most seed imported by Canadian gardeners would fall under the "small lot" category. However, seed imported for commercial purposes will often require an ICA as the combined weight of commercial imports often exceeds the "small lot" size. The importer is responsible for ensuring that all requirements are met, including freedom from prohibited noxious weed seeds regardless of the exemptions that apply.

The above is a cut and paste from the Canadian Seeds act, states that documentation may not be needed, but the testing must still be available.

 

[Apimyces]

I was not talking about large grain shipment, I mean small test samples being sent around the world for research and baking trials, they all need to go through phyto before leaving Canada. However there are policies in place depending on what the research being done is. If the seeds are to be destroyed, ie baking, the needs are really reduced. However, if the seeds are to be propagated, the need for phyto is mandatory.
Agree that small seed lots do not need to provide the paperwork, but they still fall under the seeds act, and must follow the act just the same as any "big" importation. The importer must follow the seeds act, and be responsible for the paperwork and proof the seeds act was followed if requested.

Thank you for the clarification, the interaction of phyto requirements and small seed lot exemptions are one I meant to investigate further, but never had to, because the seeds I import are not targeted by any particular phyto restrictions. Even live hop cuttings, last I checked, did not require a phytosanitary certificate when imported from Oregon for propagation, merely an import permit. I may be misremembering, though, because looking it up right now, a phyto would indeed be required for that. (edit: last time I imported from the states, I did require a phyto, so that memory of not needing a phyto, if it was ever true, dates back to many years. The phyto only asks for an absence of soil, though.)

Hop seeds aren't targeted by any phyto requirements in Canada, though.

Actually I doubt it, it's not the sort of thing that countries that are serious about plant health would do.

I didn't have anything to do with seeds when I was involved with this stuff so don't quote me on this, but it doesn't sound the sort of exemption that the EU would give.

As Lurker said, the small seed lot exemptions don't necessarily mean you can do whatever you like with small lots, there remains restructions, just less bureaucracy and cost.

For an international reference, see: OECD SCHEMES FOR THE VARIETAL CERTIFICATION OR THE CONTROL OF SEED MOVING IN INTERNATIONAL TRADE © OECD 2021

Page 169 of the report, appendix 6, has a table called "Maximum Weights of "Small Packages" of Vegetable Certified Seed", which ranges from 5kg for leguminous species and corn, to 500g for a number of vegetable seeds, to 100g for all other vegetables. That's not the exact same as Canada's own regulations, but differences such as these are not uncommon with these things. Not all nations part of UPOV adhere to the same versions of the treaties or have the exact same interpretation. Nations remain sovereign, after all, and don't all share the same concerns and priorities. In Oceania, there's a great concern over importing pests, in Europe or at least parts of it, there seems to be some kind of fixation over registered varieties, and overall all states vary on their obsessions with phytosanitary concerns and varietal registrations.


I think we can all agree though that one needs to just look up his own country's guidelines for a definitive answer.

 

[royger]

For what is worth, I've asked some local hop growers in Spain, and one of them will have neomexicanus varieties (Neo1, Amalia, Multihead and Willow Creek) available next year. They are currently in the process of propagating them after having imported the genetic material 3 years ago. I've asked and they have the legal paperwork required to ship to whole Europe. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, their web page is: Vendo Lúpulo | Venta de lúpulo

 

[Brewjoey]

Hi

hello !
I’m looking for someone who owns Amalia, Medusa(Multihead), Neo1 and Willow Creek.
I live in France, and even though these varieties are not protected by a patent, we don’t have access to them in France.
In exchange, I can offer exclusive German and French varieties( Tardif de Bourgogne, Petit Blanc, Mandarina Bavaria, Ariana, Hallertau Blanc...).

ps: I believe that if you live in the USA it is impossible (borders and customs officers)

thank you very much.


"je recherche quelqu'un qui possède Amalia, Medusa(Multihead), Neo1 et Willow Creek. j'habite en France et même si ces variétés ne sont pas protégés par un brevet, nous n'y avons pas accès en France.
En échange, je peux proposer des variétés exclusives Allemandes et Françaises.
ps : je crois que si vous habitez aux USA c'est impossible (frontières et douaniers)
merci beaucoup.

hello !
I’m looking for someone who owns Amalia, Medusa(Multihead), Neo1 and Willow Creek.
I live in France, and even though these varieties are not protected by a patent, we don’t have access to them in France.
In exchange, I can offer exclusive German and French varieties( Tardif de Bourgogne, Petit Blanc, Mandarina Bavaria, Ariana, Hallertau Blanc...).

ps: I believe that if you live in the USA it is impossible (borders and customs officers)

thank you very much.


"je recherche quelqu'un qui possède Amalia, Medusa(Multihead), Neo1 et Willow Creek. j'habite en France et même si ces variétés ne sont pas protégés par un brevet, nous n'y avons pas accès en France.
En échange, je peux proposer des variétés exclusives Allemandes et Françaises.
ps : je crois que si vous habitez aux USA c'est impossible (frontières et douaniers)
merci beaucoup."

Hi, would you care to send Tardif de Bourgogne rhizomes to Austria, Europe???
I could offer to trade Cascade, Hallertauer and Mount Hood

 

[Sylvain]

I have some Tardif de Bourgogne. A shipment is possible. However, I already have your three varieties

 

[Brewjoey]

Hi, I would of course offer to also pay for them

 

[Brewjoey]

I have some Tardif de Bourgogne. A shipment is possible. However, I already have your three varieties

You can email me. [email address removed for privacy reasons]

He will send you his email address in a conversation. --Mod.