Everything tastes like C hops?

[mashdar]

I visited a ~10,000 BBL/yr brewery in Northern NY yesterday, and was excited to see a wide range of lager on the menu. My eyes wandered to kolsh and helles.

I ordered a helles, and while it had a very nice malty finish, but there was an overpowering C-hop citrus flavor. It really ruined the beer for me.

Then I thought, "surely if there's a kolsch on the menu, it must showcase some kolsch yeast esters." Nope. If there was any plum, it was buried in a truckload of oranges.

Thinking back, I had the same experience at a smaller brewpub in NYC a few months ago. Is this a thing now? Can I not trust anything to be remotely to style?

(At least Jack's Abby indicates the unusual hops in their Porchfest, and they make lots to-style.)

 

[Brewer dad]

I find myself very sensitive to C hops, and generally try to avoid them. Typically I can pick them out if they’re there. However I haven’t experienced anything like what you’ve described(though unfortunately I rarely get out to breweries).

Given the current state of the industry I wonder if they are cutting costs by reducing the amount of different hops they stock? I’d hope they wouldn’t try to sub noble hops for c hops. Don’t quote me but I also think there have been some crop issues? I recently picked some bulk noble hops and they’re in the 2% AA range.

 

[dmtaylor]

Americans are experts at ruining every great thing on this planet.

 

[mac_1103]

Except bacon. I don't think anybody has figured out how to screw up bacon yet. Not great in a Kolsch though...

 

[mashdar]

Except bacon. I don't think anybody has figured out how to screw up bacon yet. Not great in a Kolsch though...

Canadians?

(edit: This is a joke. Knives down please! I've never tried it and for all I know Canadian bacon is some yooper conspiracy.)

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Given the current state of the industry I wonder if they are cutting costs by reducing the amount of different hops they stock? I’d hope they wouldn’t try to sub noble hops for c hops. Don’t quote me but I also think there have been some crop issues? I recently picked some bulk noble hops and they’re in the 2% AA range.

I suspect it's more to do with the latter - I know a number of big names were reformulated in response to the disastrous 2022 harvest in Europe - not only was yield way down but the quality, of landrace hops in particular ,wasn't great. 2023 was a bit better but not great, 2024 was OK - but it looks like this heatwave is going to make 2025 another bad year.

So you can imagine that a lot of people have been experimenting with US alternatives, and maybe not adjusting the recipe as much as they should do?

 

[mashdar]

I suspect it's more to do with the latter - I know a number of big names were reformulated in response to the disastrous 2022 harvest in Europe - not only was yield way down but the quality, of landrace hops in particular ,wasn't great. 2023 was a bit better but not great, 2024 was OK - but it looks like this heatwave is going to make 2025 another bad year.

So you can imagine that a lot of people have been experimenting with US alternatives, and maybe not adjusting the recipe as much as they should do?

IMO they could just use Sterling and the helles/kolsh would be worlds better.

 

[AzOr]

I live in the left coast Portland and there are a ton of good breweries. There are also some not so good ones. Some of those are so focused on that beer style that starts with an “I” that some of their other offerings are an after thought.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Canadians?

(edit: This is a joke. Knives down please! I've never tried it and for all I know Canadian bacon is some yooper conspiracy.)

LOL. Canadian bacon is good... ham.

I was in Ireland last October and had several dishes that contained "bacon"... And none of it was bacon as an American would understand it. None of it was even pork belly. I had a pork chop called a "bacon chop".

FYI, for anyone who is a homebrewer, you should start working on curing/smoking your own bacon. It's fantastic

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was in Ireland last October and had several dishes that contained "bacon"... And none of it was bacon as an American would understand it.

Let's face it, there's a lot that USians don't understand about food (Exhibit A - cheese). But then what do you expect of a country that was colonised by all the nations of Europe - French, Italians, Spanish - yet assigned the job of creating a national cuisine to the Germans.

None of it was even pork belly. I had a pork chop called a "bacon chop".

Yes, we don't use just one cut, we're a bit more sophisticated about it - streaky bacon is made from belly so is roughly equivalent to US bacon, back bacon is made from loin. Both are widely available, but in the modern age people tend to choose back bacon as it's less fatty apart from specific cases like making pigs in blankets. (jeez - the US can't even get that right, they're just sausage and streaky bacon).

We have pork chops as well as bacon chops, the latter are cured, the former aren't. You tend to see them in pubs, who like the effect that the saltiness has on your drinking.

See eg https://www.truebites.co.uk/blogs/ask-the-butcher/types-of-bacon

 

[hungupdown]

Except bacon. I don't think anybody has figured out how to screw up bacon yet. Not great in a Kolsch though...

They have. After UK and much of Europe declaring the traditional bacon curing salts were bad for your health, despite having used for centuries. They've now come up with a 'healthy' alternative,which is tasteless, and doesn't keep.
If visiting, try to find bacon, that doesn't declare 'low salt'.

 

[mashdar]

Just visited Marshall's Wharf Brewing Co in Belfast, Maine. A pleasant surprise! I was suspicious of a pilsner "made with maple sap instead of water", but it was quite good, and not in a maple syrup way.

A couple of others had some odd twists (a hint if peat in a brown ale), but the beers were well brewed and as-advertised. Fantastic schwarzbier.

My faith in the profession is restored.

 

[lumpher]

Except bacon. I don't think anybody has figured out how to screw up bacon yet. Not great in a Kolsch though...

Turkey bacon... ... and I wouldn't put it in a Kolsch, either.

 

[Brewer dad]

Just visited Marshall's Wharf Brewing Co in Belfast, Maine. A pleasant surprise! I was suspicious of a pilsner "made with maple sap instead of water", but it was quite good, and not in a maple syrup way.

A couple of others had some odd twists (a hint if peat in a brown ale), but the beers were well brewed and as-advertised. Fantastic schwarzbier.

My faith in the profession is restored.

Ive heard of this being done, it’s also described in The Homebrewer’s Almanac. Been wanting to tap some of the maples at my place and try it but haven’t gotten around to it. Brewing Nordic also talks about doing it with birch. Never would have considered a pilsner with it.

I had a couple beers from a local spot at a community event last week. One was an Irish Red, definitely bittered with C hops. The beer itself wasn’t objectively bad, in fact I’d say it was overall decently done with a clean fermentation and malt flavor. And I can appreciate the logistical and financial reasons to not special order a more to style hop that they probably don’t otherwise use.

Plus the beers were $5, which especially at a special event I found very(pleasantly) surprising.