Ethics Thread

[FatDragon]

Hypothetical question. You find yourself travelling to a foreign country, where the local currency is very weak in relation to your own. You find out that for a ridiculously small amount of money, say, $1 USD, a person could eat several meals. In short, a single dollar goes a long way.

Is it unethical to tip a single dollar at a restaurant, knowing it is a lot of money for the person receiving it?

Nowhere in the world is $1 a life-changing amount of money unless there are extreme circumstances (i.e. someone is going to starve now without a dollar to buy food). That's not a very satisfying answer, because it ignores the question of where to draw the line, but one-dollar tips aren't crossing it.

As someone else mentioned, tipping isn't always acceptable in the first place. A Mexican restaurant I used to eat at in college had a sign up: "Tipping isn't a city in China." Well it's also not a custom in China, and if you do it here in a non-Western-run establishment, it's often going to be viewed as an insult. I've had taxi drivers wait for me while I ran quick errands before and even help me on said errands (particularly bottle runs from a local bar), and they outright refuse to accept any more than what it says on the meter even though they're losing potential income by waiting for me (there is a timer on the meter, but it pays very little).

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Hypothetical question. You find yourself travelling to a foreign country, where the local currency is very weak in relation to your own. You find out that for a ridiculously small amount of money, say, $1 USD, a person could eat several meals. In short, a single dollar goes a long way.

Is it unethical to tip a single dollar at a restaurant, knowing it is a lot of money for the person receiving it?

"Unethical" as in being too little money for a tip? I'd say no, certainly not. What is the accepted tipping standard in the US, about 10% or 15% of the total bill? In the scenario you posed, it would seem that a single US dollar would be far more than that & would be a very welcome tip by the wait staff.

I've actually done something similar to this. Back in the 80's when the Mexican peso was something like 800 pesos to 1 US dollar, I used to go down to Mexico for a nice evening of food, drink & such. Two of us could eat a really great meal, shoot pool & drink for several hours, get gloriously drunk, call it a night & still have money left in my pocket; all from a $20 dollar bill. I tipped a couple of dollars at both the restaurant & the bar.

Should I have tipped more? No. Those tips were far above the accepted average. Should I have tipped more simply because I could afford to do so? No. Would you expect Bill gates to tip a waitress $5000 when all he ordered was a burger & fries? Of course not. Tipping the poor waitstaff in the poor foreign country a single dollar is certainly acceptable IMHO.
Tho, if you got the meal with a happy ending, your tip should be commensurate with the quality of service provided.
Regards, GF.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Here's a question:
Is it unethical to keep a stray cat/dog? No collar, no microchip ID, no clues whatsoever as to their owner, but it's obvious that until very recently the animal was taken care of by somebody. You like the animal a lot, maybe your kids like the animal a lot too. The animal is well behaved & seems to settle into your home like it's lived there for years.

Do you take it to the pound? Do you put up flyers? Do you simply keep it & love it like your own? What do you do? What should you do?

 

[hunter_le five]

Here's a question:
Is it unethical to keep a stray cat/dog? No collar, no microchip ID, no clues whatsoever as to their owner, but it's obvious that until very recently the animal was taken care of by somebody. You like the animal a lot, maybe your kids like the animal a lot too. The animal is well behaved & seems to settle into your home like it's lived there for years.

Do you take it to the pound? Do you put up flyers? Do you simply keep it & love it like your own? What do you do? What should you do?

No, as long as you make a reasonable attempt to find the owner.

Put up flyers. If nobody responds, it's yours, and better off for it. Screw the pound.

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

Here's a question:
Is it unethical to keep a stray cat/dog? No collar, no microchip ID, no clues whatsoever as to their owner, but it's obvious that until very recently the animal was taken care of by somebody. You like the animal a lot, maybe your kids like the animal a lot too. The animal is well behaved & seems to settle into your home like it's lived there for years.

Do you take it to the pound? Do you put up flyers? Do you simply keep it & love it like your own? What do you do? What should you do?

I quite literally have a cat sitting in my room staring at me right this second, that came to be from this very scenario. Friends in the city had a stray start to show up. Asked around for a while, checked for a microchip, looked for Lost Cat signs - nada. A week or two after he first started showing up, we took him in, thinking he was ferral. When he came RUNNING at the sound of a cat food can opening, and his generally positive disposition around people - we knew he had been someone's pet.

Our options: 1 - Return him to the streets and hope his owners find him before he froze to death or died of some other cause.
2 - Post signs throughout the city hoping someone saw them and actually wanted him back, and actually owned him in the first place.
3 - Take him to the vet, get him checked out, and take care of him.

The obvious answer is #3 in my book. #1 is cruel, and #2 is a pipe dream. The friends that found him looked for missing cat signs, none were to be found. If you lost your cat and don't care enough to put up a few signs in the area, then you're probably not the best owner to begin with.

He's now chipped and collared, you know - responsible pet ownership.
-Kevin

 

[DrunkleJon]

People choose their pet dogs, cats choose who they will tolerate.

If you feed a cat they will most likely stick around. They do tend to have a rather large territory where they will wander. If signs dont result in anything and you are willing to take on the responsibilities, do adopt the animal.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

Here's a question:
Is it unethical to keep a stray cat/dog? No collar, no microchip ID, no clues whatsoever as to their owner, but it's obvious that until very recently the animal was taken care of by somebody. You like the animal a lot, maybe your kids like the animal a lot too. The animal is well behaved & seems to settle into your home like it's lived there for years.

Do you take it to the pound? Do you put up flyers? Do you simply keep it & love it like your own? What do you do? What should you do?

First thing you do it call the local police departments and ask if they have any lost pet calls fitting that description.
The police won't confiscate the animal. They don't want a dog or cat. Nor do they want to send it to death row.
Then, call the local pound and ask whether anyone has called looking for such an animal (tho I don't know if the pound keeps track of such inquiries).

Take a drive around looking for flyers posted by the owner.
Check online "lost pet" resources. Tho I have not checked one before, I've heard they are out there.

Finally, check the feet of the pet (dogs in particular) to try and determine the distance it may have traveled.

If you do your due diligence and don't find an owner, certainly you could keep the pet ... understanding that if an owner becomes known, you have the obligation to return the pet if so requested ... even after a long period of time.

 

[hunter_le five]

I was getting ready to go to work early in the morning a few weeks ago, and went out to go warm up the truck. I open the door, climb in and start the engine, and then suddenly, out of nowhere, this dog just climbs in the truck with me and sits down in the passenger seat, ready to go. Super excited and friendly.

It had a collar, but no tags. I kinda wanted to keep the dumb bastard, but I've already two cats and a snake that I don't want, so I couldn't justify another pet in our tiny house. Perhaps if the dog "took care of them" for me....

I made a brief attempt to locate the owner, but this was about several hours before dawn so nobody else was roaming the neighborhood. Had to wish him the best of luck and kick him out of the truck. Hopefully he found his way back home.

 

[DrunkleJon]

You took a pass on a truck dog? You heathen! I kid, sounds like a good dog though. I do hope it found its owners.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Here's a question:
Is it unethical to keep a stray cat/dog? No collar, no microchip ID, no clues whatsoever as to their owner, but it's obvious that until very recently the animal was taken care of by somebody. You like the animal a lot, maybe your kids like the animal a lot too. The animal is well behaved & seems to settle into your home like it's lived there for years.

Do you take it to the pound? Do you put up flyers? Do you simply keep it & love it like your own? What do you do? What should you do?

You'd inform dog rescue and similar type organizations of the animal found with pictures. Post an ad on craigslist at the very least. 99% chance someone is looking for their pet. If you just keep it it's no different than stealing it.

 

[SupervisingChildren]

I had a dog with no tags come running into my backyard a month before we got our current dog. It ran all over my backyard and I chased it down a few houses away. Dog chilled out while I checked with my neighbors to see if it was theirs, but it wasn't. I brought it to my house and fed it and gave it some water, then took it out for a walk to see if we could find the owners. Eventually, the owners found me and thanked me for holding onto their dog.
I say do what you can to find the owner and if no response, you take care of an abandoned dog.

 

[Homercidal]

Call the police and the pound and describe the dog. ANYONE WORTH BEING A DOG OWNER WILL CALL THOSE PLACES TO SEE IF THEY HAVE IT!

And I can't believe you'd kick a dog out of your truck. You KNOW he was just trying to get back home! Probably got lost while his family was on vacation. You know, like in the movies?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

So. Hypothetical situation. Your longtime buddy who is married tells you he's got a girlfriend on the side, AND that his wife is OK with it. Time goes on & you don't say anything cuz he's your buddy & it's none of your biz.

Now his wife is your friend too, at least by association, but you've known your buddy for a long time; longer than you've known his wife (or girlfriend). So everything seems to be going along just fine until one day your buddy's wife asks you if you knew your buddy was banging another woman. Now you're left wondering if your buddy lied to you about his wife knowing & being OK with it. You're also wondering just what to say to his wife. You don't want to make the situation any worse than it is for anybody, you'd really like to stay out of it, but the wife expects an answer.

The question at hand is: How do you respond?

 

[WildGingerBrewing]

Where do your loyalties lie? I would assume with your friend. So the answer is, "No. No way. He would never cheat on you". If she then responds that she knew and it wasn't cheating, then whether or not you knew, is completely irrelevant. If she doesn't care this is no reason you should.

 

[DrunkleJon]

Wow, good question. I would approach said buddy and let him know that she asked you about it and that it may behoove him to talk with her. I do not know what should be said to her. That is a bad situation either way.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

That is a bad situation either way.

Yes it is.
Regards, GF.

 

[BHebert]

I am always surprised by the amount of people that complain about being overcharged for an item but say nothing when being undercharged.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Where do your loyalties lie? I would assume with your friend. So the answer is, "No. No way. He would never cheat on you". If she then responds that she knew and it wasn't cheating, then whether or not you knew, is completely irrelevant. If she doesn't care this is no reason you should.

Well, apparently she didn't know, hence her original question of "Did you know?"
Unless she's just messin' with your head, but let's say that's not the case.
Let's say the girlfriend & wife know each other & the girlfriend told the wife for whatever reason. You have no clue as to what was said between them, only that the wife seems a bit bent.
You don't want to lose either friend.

 

[Homercidal]

I'd as the buddy WTF was he thinking? As often as I fantasize about all kinds of women, I'd NEVER hurt my wife by cheating on her. If I disliked her enough to do that to her, I'd already be divorced.

Now if she were ok with it, that would be cool. But she'd probably want to help pick the other woman, and I know from experience that she's probably pick a reliable model with leather seats. I'd go for something that looks great with the top down and makes everyone stare.

Then of course she's want her own with a stick shift and quiet exhaust.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

I'd as the buddy WTF was he thinking? As often as I fantasize about all kinds of women, I'd NEVER hurt my wife by cheating on her. If I disliked her enough to do that to her, I'd already be divorced.

Now if she were ok with it, that would be cool. But she'd probably want to help pick the other woman, and I know from experience that she's probably pick a reliable model with leather seats. I'd go for something that looks great with the top down and makes everyone stare.

Then of course she's want her own with a stick shift and quiet exhaust.

Having had some limited experience with polyboinkery in my past, and having extensive watching the actions of friends and acquaintences, I have to say I would never have let this situation get to where it did. "Your wife is ok with this you say? My unsolicited advice is to stop now, early on." He is either lying to you, or lying to himself without exception.

I have seen 3 kinds of polyamory scenarios (with 0 exceptions, out of a rather large sampling).

1) The couple who knows they are eventually breaking up anyway. For instance, the woman who will eventually be marrying a Jewish man and having a family with him because her current boyfriend doesnt have plans to convert. What did we have to lose? I mean, what would this hypothetical couple have to lose?
2) The couple who categorically ENDS this part of their relationship and decides to return to monogamy. Past partners are told firmly that the rules of their friendships have changed, and any dating profiles that might have been opened are closed.
3) World War III. The lines blur and eventually arguments on everything from where your shoes are put after taking them off to money to politics break out. Passive aggressiveness is on the rise, and seeing such a couple as an outsider is a decidedly unsettling experience. There is a 25% chance the police will visit their apartment before they break up. He will ask to sleep on your couch a few nights while he "figures some things out".

My advice retroactively to YOU gratus, if this is more than just hypothetical, is to immediately begin seperating yourself from this friend when he tells you about his new arrangement. You need the crap that will come of it like you need pernicious anemia.

 

[Pappers_]

"polyboinkery" is my new favorite word @CreamyGoodness

 

[fuzzy2133]

So. Hypothetical situation. Your longtime buddy who is married tells you he's got a girlfriend on the side, AND that his wife is OK with it. Time goes on & you don't say anything cuz he's your buddy & it's none of your biz.

Now his wife is your friend too, at least by association, but you've known your buddy for a long time; longer than you've known his wife (or girlfriend). So everything seems to be going along just fine until one day your buddy's wife asks you if you knew your buddy was banging another woman. Now you're left wondering if your buddy lied to you about his wife knowing & being OK with it. You're also wondering just what to say to his wife. You don't want to make the situation any worse than it is for anybody, you'd really like to stay out of it, but the wife expects an answer.

The question at hand is: How do you respond?

Right or wrong my buddy I grew up with knows I would hang him out to dry and would still verify with his wife she is/was OK with that.

1. IMO Totally sleazy to do
2. I am his son's god parent
3. 100% know how his parents raised him
4. IF His dad found this out he would go "missing" one day

+1 on "polyboinkery"!

 

[FatDragon]

My response would be something like, "He told me about that a couple months ago and said that you knew about it and were okay with it. That sort of thing is way out of my comfort zone so I just took (Don)'s word for it and pushed it to the back of my mind."

If the question's truly hypothetical and you're trying to gird yourself for the possible event of your buddy's wife asking you about his (apparently permitted) affair, then it sounds like you doubt that your buddy actually has his wife's permission. If that's the case, you've gotta get things clarified with your buddy tootsweet, and preferably arrange a sitdown with him and his wife where she personally makes it clear that she's given him the go-ahead. Doubting your buddy's veracity on an issue like this is a nasty place to be, and if you're right to doubt him and you get dragged into the fallout, that would be absolutely miserable.

 

[blackbeer]

thats one of them "need a moment" moments.

 

[Opiate42]

Just before the first snow hit last year, had a dog run across a 4 lane busy road on my way biking home one day, owner didn't have the leash on (stupid considering the traffic). Dog bolts right into the road. I start hollering and wave my arms, pull my bike across the lanes and directly in front of a ton of cars going fast enough to do some harm. Someone on the other side of the road did the same for the other direction.

Dog ran right by me ignoring the owner, you could see the "YAH AWESOME RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA" in it's eyes. Pup had no idea how close it was to getting smackered.

Anyhoo, owner was on the opposite side of the road, dog eventually ran back oblivious of all the honking cars, other person blocking traffic looked like she had a few unhappy words for the person in question. I just watched long enough to watch the leash go on.

I had a dog with no tags come running into my backyard a month before we got our current dog. It ran all over my backyard and I chased it down a few houses away. Dog chilled out while I checked with my neighbors to see if it was theirs, but it wasn't. I brought it to my house and fed it and gave it some water, then took it out for a walk to see if we could find the owners. Eventually, the owners found me and thanked me for holding onto their dog.
I say do what you can to find the owner and if no response, you take care of an abandoned dog.

Damn straight.

We ended up with a new kitten along these same lines. Mother in law's building has a garage in the back, back in the fall finds a young-ish cat trying to get some shelter there. So she puts down some food and water, some blankets in a box. Little thing set up shop fine enough.

But when it started hitting -20C, she scooped it up and plopped it into a vacant apartment so it wouldn't freeze to death. We come visit and "oh hi here's a cat, take it home, the apartment is getting rented out and the cat has nowhere to go"(couldn't take it herself, her dog would likely kill it trying to play with it, poor dumb happy thing doesn't know it's own strength).

So now we have another cat. I figured by the size of her skull and how light she was, maybe 2 years old. The vet figured closer to 1 year old, had her scanned and no chip so no owner to track down in theory. So this poor thing, alone was surviving for months on it's own in the fall, no idea what happened to it's mom or litter was surviving on it's wits likely before it's first birthday.

Whenever she got up on the window sill near the balcony door or the cat-door we have in the window she sniffs the cold air a bit then runs away. Poor thing must have been just freezing most nights until she got scooped up. Now she curls up on the couch with me and licks my face.

Still wonder what happened to her littermates.

Only started going out on the balcony this last week after it started getting back to only negative single digits.

 

[motobrewer]

is it ethical to sh*t in someone's soup and call it pho?

 

[The_Dog_42]

Well, apparently she didn't know, hence her original question of "Did you know?"
Unless she's just messin' with your head, but let's say that's not the case.
Let's say the girlfriend & wife know each other & the girlfriend told the wife for whatever reason. You have no clue as to what was said between them, only that the wife seems a bit bent.
You don't want to lose either friend.

My response would be "I think you need to talk to [Dave] about this." If she continues to press, depending on how, I'd try to understand what she hopes to get out of the conversation. If she doesn't trust the guy and wants confirmation of something bad, that's a pretty clear sign of the relationship. If she wants to figure out how much you know because they're really swingers and she wants to proposition you, that's a different, albeit awkward conversation.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

So. Hypothetical situation. Your longtime buddy who is married tells you he's got a girlfriend on the side, AND that his wife is OK with it. Time goes on & you don't say anything cuz he's your buddy & it's none of your biz.

Now his wife is your friend too, at least by association, but you've known your buddy for a long time; longer than you've known his wife (or girlfriend). So everything seems to be going along just fine until one day your buddy's wife asks you if you knew your buddy was banging another woman. Now you're left wondering if your buddy lied to you about his wife knowing & being OK with it. You're also wondering just what to say to his wife. You don't want to make the situation any worse than it is for anybody, you'd really like to stay out of it, but the wife expects an answer.

The question at hand is: How do you respond?

Play dumb. Ask her if she's being serious, because it's not a funny subject. Ask who is the woman. Act shocked.

Is she attractive? Well... tell her if she ever needs to talk, she can always come by and vent over a few homebrews.






You're welcome.

 

[Zuljin]

So. Hypothetical situation. Your longtime buddy who is married tells you he's got a girlfriend on the side, AND that his wife is OK with it. Time goes on & you don't say anything cuz he's your buddy & it's none of your biz.

Now his wife is your friend too, at least by association, but you've known your buddy for a long time; longer than you've known his wife (or girlfriend). So everything seems to be going along just fine until one day your buddy's wife asks you if you knew your buddy was banging another woman. Now you're left wondering if your buddy lied to you about his wife knowing & being OK with it. You're also wondering just what to say to his wife. You don't want to make the situation any worse than it is for anybody, you'd really like to stay out of it, but the wife expects an answer.

The question at hand is: How do you respond?

My best friend and I became best friends after fighting over the same girl. Later, we dated sisters, and then traded same sisters. It was an entirely open and mutual situation. This history, and questionable acquaintances, lead to an agreement. If either of us knew the others girlfriend was cheating, we'd tell. If we were the one she was cheating with, we'd tap that for all it's worth, and tell. The agreement was quite the opposite should one of us be the infidelitant. Hedonism is an ethic.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

Polyboinkery.
I still don't think it's gonna end well.