Espresso brewers, roasters, lovers...

[senorswiss]

The price may seem a bit high (hell, you can get a decent espresso machine for less than that ), but you're getting a commercial-grade grinder.

I don't mean this to sound like it's going to, but a Rocky is emphatically not a commercial grade grinder. By home standards, it is a good grinder, but not commercial grade.

 

[DeusInnomen]

I don't mean this to sound like it's going to, but a Rocky is emphatically not a commercial grade grinder. By home standards, it is a good grinder, but not commercial grade.

Could'a sworn it was, but alright, I'm ready to believe that. Reset my measuring stick for me, then, what's commercial grade then?

 

[senorswiss]

Could'a sworn it was, but alright, I'm ready to believe that. Reset my measuring stick for me, then, what's commercial grade then?

Well, perhaps it can be used in a light commercial setting. What I meant when I typed that was it's not up for constant heavy use (as in a busy cafe), from what I've read over the last couple of years. I have not owned one, so I feel somewhat badly for making a comment like that. My knowledge of the rocky is strictly from what I have read on coffee forums, so take it only for what that's worth. I know many many people have been completely satisfied with them and that they are definitely quality grinders.

Some heavy duty commercial grinders that come to mind are: Mazzer, Mahlkonig, and Compak. There are many others...those just come to mind.

 

[HalfPint]

First and foremost, are you using fresh beans? Within two weeks of roast date (not 'Best By' date)? If not, that's going to be the easiest way to improve your espresso. After that, you might consider equipment upgrades.

When I first found out that pulling espresso wasn't as easy as I thought, I went over to Coffeegeek.com and one of the things a lot of people said was just that. With that said, I typically shop at whole foods and get my fresh roasted beans from there. I always only buy for one week at a time as well.

I would strongly recommend looking into a used commercial grinder if you have the space for it.

Thanks for the advice. I think I may look on CL for a commercial grinder, but I'm feeling lazy and may actually just buy one on ebay or something (when I do decide to buy). Also, I've actually priced those Baratza's and I really like the digital display. I've also priced the Ascaso I-mini, which I've heard is a great grinder for the $$.

I owned a PID'd Silvia for about a year, and it is a very capable machine - a little touchy about grind, but capable of great espresso. For the retail price of a new one, with a PID, though, you can spend a little more and get lots more machine (or again something used).

So what type of machine do you think would be a good pick? I know you say for more I can get a better machine, but are you talking about a rocket more?

Thanks for all of the advice,
Jacob

 

[DeusInnomen]

Well, perhaps it can be used in a light commercial setting. What I meant when I typed that was it's not up for constant heavy use (as in a busy cafe), from what I've read over the last couple of years. I have not owned one, so I feel somewhat badly for making a comment like that. My knowledge of the rocky is strictly from what I have read on coffee forums, so take it only for what that's worth. I know many many people have been completely satisfied with them and that they are definitely quality grinders.

Some heavy duty commercial grinders that come to mind are: Mazzer, Mahlkonig, and Compak. There are many others...those just come to mind.

Nah, no worries man, I'm capable of taking criticism if I'm wrong or disagreed with. It's definitely marked as a commercial-grade device, but on closer inspection it's mostly the burrs that are referenced as such. In either case, Mazzer definitely is something I'd pick up for a cafe, that's for sure.

 

[senorswiss]

Sounds like you've already done quite a bit of reading, so that's good (Coffee Geek is the forum I had in mind).

So what type of machine do you think would be a good pick? I know you say for more I can get a better machine, but are you talking about a rocket more?

Perhaps I also should have said you can get almost as nice of a machine for a bit less money. From what I have learned (reading, not owning), something like a Gaggia will give you similar performance to the silvia for less money. Part of this is b/c the silvia is built like a tank and housed in brushed stainless.

If prices haven't changed lately, a new silvia and PID will set you back something like $850, which is too much for that machine, I feel. If you can find a great deal on one (as I did), then by all means, it's a great machine with a waning cult-like following (meaning tons of info about modding or fixing it). The PID is not necessary, but it makes consistency a lot easier. You can read about temperature surfing, otherwise.

Once you're near $1000, you start to get into the range of affording an HX (Heat Exchanger) machine. The Salvatore One Black comes to mind as being around $1000...I think they increased the price to $1100, though a while back. An HX will allow you to pull a shot and steam without the wait time associated with a single boiler machine. So will a Double Boiler machine, but those get even more expensive. Again, buying used can save you a bunch of money; you've just got to be sure it has been well-maintained.

I think you're best off doing a lot of reading about the various choices / experiences over at CG or elsewhere and see what you feel matches your needs / budget. From the sounds of things, you likely have already been doing this. Have fun!

 

[JonW]

Sounds like you've already done quite a bit of reading, so that's good (Coffee Geek is the forum I had in mind).

Perhaps I also should have said you can get almost as nice of a machine for a bit less money. From what I have learned (reading, not owning), something like a Gaggia will give you similar performance to the silvia for less money. Part of this is b/c the silvia is built like a tank and housed in brushed stainless.

If prices haven't changed lately, a new silvia and PID will set you back something like $850, which is too much for that machine, I feel. If you can find a great deal on one (as I did), then by all means, it's a great machine with a waning cult-like following (meaning tons of info about modding or fixing it). The PID is not necessary, but it makes consistency a lot easier. You can read about temperature surfing, otherwise.

Once you're near $1000, you start to get into the range of affording an HX (Heat Exchanger) machine. The Salvatore One Black comes to mind as being around $1000...I think they increased the price to $1100, though a while back. An HX will allow you to pull a shot and steam without the wait time associated with a single boiler machine. So will a Double Boiler machine, but those get even more expensive. Again, buying used can save you a bunch of money; you've just got to be sure it has been well-maintained.

I think you're best off doing a lot of reading about the various choices / experiences over at CG or elsewhere and see what you feel matches your needs / budget. From the sounds of things, you likely have already been doing this. Have fun!

Some good suggestions here, but I've had a couple of Gaggia's and while they are OK, they're not the caliber of a Silvia/PID. They also run out of steam quick (although the Silvia can also since it is a single boiler). Both he Rocky grinder and the Gaggia MDF grinder are very usable home grinders. Neither are considered professional grade, but they're about the only (prosumer) ones in the $300 price range that can grind espresso adequately. All the professional ones go up in price from there.

Do your research for what is important to you. Just like building an all grain setup, there are choices to make that will affect your brew (espresso). Interested in a HX style machine? Then learn the terms: water dance, temp surfing and cooling flush - they'll rule your shots. Do you do a lot of milk based drinks (especially for dinners or company)? Then look for a dual boiler with fast recovery times. Good dual boiler machines let you pull shots and steam simultaneously (but will likely require a dedicated 20 AMP circuit) and can do it with no recovery times.

You can spend $200 or $2000 (or more) for a machine. Only your research and what's important to you can dictate what to get.

 

[HalfPint]

Thanks Jon and Senor.

I have done a lot of research about machines and grinders and read around on coffeegeek.com, but it's still nice to hear others opinions on things.

I do temp surf with my current machine ALWAYS and don't typically make milk based drinks unless swmbo wants one. I think when I first got my machine I offered to make drinks for company and since then, I don't do it anymore (takes too much dang time). I know SeattleCoffeeGear.com has a Rocky/Silvia package for around $1000 or so I think http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Rancilio-Silvia-and-Grinder-Package-p/scg14032-03.htm. I think with the money I can get for my current machine, it really wont break the bank that bad. I believe that I'll keep my current grinder simply because it's good for french press and my Technivorm that I'll get some day (also good to have separate grinders for espresso and drip/press).

Overall, I'll continue to dream until then,
Jacob

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I am dreaming about picking up a Silvia and a Rocky for the office. Not sure if it can happen, but I am going to try to get some help from Christmas gift exchanges and hope for some luck.

Also, I have been drinking machiatos lately and those are great.

 

[CrankyOldLibrarian]

I am dreaming about picking up a Silvia and a Rocky for the office. Not sure if it can happen, but I am going to try to get some help from Christmas gift exchanges and hope for some luck.

Also, I have been drinking machiatos lately and those are great.

Check craigslist. I picked up an older Silva & a Rocky for $200 a few weeks ago. The Silva needs a new gasket, but that is a simple repair.

 

[JonW]

Check craigslist. I picked up an older Silva & a Rocky for $200 a few weeks ago. The Silva needs a new gasket, but that is a simple repair.

That's a huge score for that combo!