Equally Obnoxious Hockey Trash Talk Thread, eh?

[arturo7]

The players are considering decertifying the union then suing the owners for antitrust violations.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410312

 

[Homercidal]

Really though? So lets say Bettman does in fact die today.

You've still got Donald "no linkage" Fehr dealing with 30 owners. Nothing changes, except all the hate that Bettman absorbs is instead distributed elsewhere.

EVERYONE has their head up their ass in this thing. There is zero trust on both sides, and thus the resistance to extend an olive branch from one side to the other. Bettman's not the problem.

No. Most of the 30 some owners are not participating in the negotiations. They are content to sit back and see how much the others can wrangle from the union. They would actually prefer to get a deal done and play hockey. It's the few losers who can't make money in the most profitable period in hockey history who are holding out for pocket change. The ones who signed some huge contracts right before the lockout, never actually planning on paying them out.

If not for those few, we would have hockey. And Bettman doesn't want to concede that there may be a couple of markets where hockey shouldn't be, or that ownership isn't savvy enough to turn a profit in those markets.

After all those years of expansion, he would look like a fool if they have to contract the league to clean out a couple of losing clubs.

We'll see what federal mediators can do to help move the process along. Although they can't make anything binding on their own, perhaps they can discover exactly what is holding up the process and figure out an agreement that both sides will be willing to sign.

 

[dudius]

no. Most of the 30 some owners are not participating in the negotiations. They are content to sit back and see how much the others can wrangle from the union. They would actually prefer to get a deal done and play hockey. It's the few losers who can't make money in the most profitable period in hockey history who are holding out for pocket change. The ones who signed some huge contracts right before the lockout, never actually planning on paying them out.

If not for those few, we would have hockey. And bettman doesn't want to concede that there may be a couple of markets where hockey shouldn't be, or that ownership isn't savvy enough to turn a profit in those markets.

After all those years of expansion, he would look like a fool if they have to contract the league to clean out a couple of losing clubs.

We'll see what federal mediators can do to help move the process along. Although they can't make anything binding on their own, perhaps they can discover exactly what is holding up the process and figure out an agreement that both sides will be willing to sign.

+1

 

[paulster2626]

No. Most of the 30 some owners are not participating in the negotiations. They are content to sit back and see how much the others can wrangle from the union. They would actually prefer to get a deal done and play hockey. It's the few losers who can't make money in the most profitable period in hockey history who are holding out for pocket change. The ones who signed some huge contracts right before the lockout, never actually planning on paying them out.

If not for those few, we would have hockey. And Bettman doesn't want to concede that there may be a couple of markets where hockey shouldn't be, or that ownership isn't savvy enough to turn a profit in those markets.

After all those years of expansion, he would look like a fool if they have to contract the league to clean out a couple of losing clubs.

We'll see what federal mediators can do to help move the process along. Although they can't make anything binding on their own, perhaps they can discover exactly what is holding up the process and figure out an agreement that both sides will be willing to sign.

How do you know what the owners are doing? You talking to them? All I know is that they've had Gary Bettman representing them for 20 years - doesn't seem like they're too upset with what he's done.

As soon as I heard federal mediators, my heart sank - this is not good news. They used mediators in 2004 and it went nowhere. In fact, mediators have never worked for any of the previous labour negotiations in any major sport.

The NHL can kiss my ass - I'm totally over this whole thing now. Yeah, if hockey starts I'll come back and watch, but really I'm fine with a lost season at this point. Owners, players, agents, they all just piss me off now.

 

[Barnzy02]

The NHL can kiss my ass - I'm totally over this whole thing now. Yeah, if hockey starts I'll come back and watch, but really I'm fine with a lost season at this point. Owners, players, agents, they all just piss me off now.

Agreed, at this point, i'd prefer them to just cancel the season because any hockey games played at whatever point they 'agree' would be for nothing more than self serving purposes and an attempt to begin wringing money from our hands again. It's so disappointing.

Who wants to win the 'cup' in a bull**** lockout shortened season ... i know it wouldn't be the same to me if the Flyers were the team to end up winning it.

 

[Homercidal]

How do you know what the owners are doing? You talking to them? All I know is that they've had Gary Bettman representing them for 20 years - doesn't seem like they're too upset with what he's done.

As soon as I heard federal mediators, my heart sank - this is not good news. They used mediators in 2004 and it went nowhere. In fact, mediators have never worked for any of the previous labour negotiations in any major sport.

The NHL can kiss my ass - I'm totally over this whole thing now. Yeah, if hockey starts I'll come back and watch, but really I'm fine with a lost season at this point. Owners, players, agents, they all just piss me off now.

Ah well, if you are a leafs fan, you aren't missing anything anyway.

 

[paulster2626]

Oh please. Continued spells of hope followed by painful disappointment is addictive. Why? I don't know.

Just because I want the Leafs to win doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching other NHL games. I'd love to see a good old fashioned Bruins/Habs tilt right about now.

 

[Homercidal]

Yeah, I want to stay mad at them too, but I know I'll be throwing down some food and beer and hanging on every shift, just like most of us, when (if) they get back to playing.

 

[emjay]

when (if) they get back to playing.

... "if"?!?!

 

[Bulls Beers]

This blows... I'm usually watching a Bruins game right now. If the Feds can't help these pricks, not sure who can...Unfortunately, I think the season is lost. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[dudius]

This blows... I'm usually watching a Bruins game right now. If the Feds can't help these pricks, not sure who can...Unfortunately, I think the season is lost. I hope I'm wrong.

I'd rather they scrap the season than come to some awful agreement and have a bullsh¡t season. And its not like the feds helped negotiations last time they got involved in pro sports.

 

[Gixxer]

You would think the local areas around AHL and in my case ECHL teams would pick up televising some games on a local station. I for one would watch the SC Stingrays not finish checks and play pick up style hockey. Hockey is hockey and I would watch and drink a beer if it were on. Hell, replay the world juniors again on the NBC Sports channel.

 

[Homercidal]

Just read where the NHL and NHLPA are sending a few from each camp for direct discussions. No Gary Bettman, no Donal Fehr. Just 6-7 from each side.

Sounds like mediators have either failed, or have come to the conclusion that NOTHING will come from Bettman and Fehr leading talks.

I hope this is the point where both sides finally realize that they are both goign to lose with this kind of a stand.

 

[Bulls Beers]

Just read where the NHL and NHLPA are sending a few from each camp for direct discussions. No Gary Bettman, no Donal Fehr. Just 6-7 from each side.

Sounds like mediators have either failed, or have come to the conclusion that NOTHING will come from Bettman and Fehr leading talks.

I hope this is the point where both sides finally realize that they are both goign to lose with this kind of a stand.

It's taken a week to decide who would go to this meeting. No wonder why no deal has been done...Idiots....

 

[paulster2626]

Just read where the NHL and NHLPA are sending a few from each camp for direct discussions. No Gary Bettman, no Donal Fehr. Just 6-7 from each side.

Sounds like mediators have either failed, or have come to the conclusion that NOTHING will come from Bettman and Fehr leading talks.

I hope this is the point where both sides finally realize that they are both goign to lose with this kind of a stand.

The mediators were finished last week. They said they determined that their involvement would not be productive at this time, and have no plans to resume meeting with the League/PA any time soon. They said they are available if asked to return.

Now I'm thinking that the players just want to take this to the breaking point of a lost season, so they can show the owners that they too have the power to stop games and income. They do have a point when they say that they're concerned the League will just lock out players every time a CBA is up, and ask for more concessions.

Until the season cancellation is imminent, there is no pressure for either side to ease up on their stance. I don't believe these meetings between the "ranchers and their cattle" will go well. Expecting the same zero-content banter afterwards. "They made their point, and we made ours. We are still far apart on sharing of revenue and contractual demands."

This same crap will continue through Christmas - after that, it'll get serious.

 

[paulster2626]

So if Sidney Crosby saves the season, how will jkratzer feel about it?

Life's greatest mysteries...

 

[Leeds1]

So if Sidney Crosby saves the season, how will jkratzer feel about it?

Life's greatest mysteries...

Fail

 

[HoppyDaze]

You slack jaws gonna have a season or what?

 

[Homercidal]

Bettman says no. Apparently (And I will admit I kind of skimmed since I am busy this morning) the players wanted 8 years contract length and the NHL says that "5-7 is the hill we die on."

Minutes after Fehr announced progress and that they were close, Bettman announced his disappointment and said they were far apart and rejected the NHLPA offer and closed talks.

 

[paulster2626]

Bettman says no. Apparently (And I will admit I kind of skimmed since I am busy this morning) the players wanted 8 years contract length and the NHL says that "5-7 is the hill we die on."

Minutes after Fehr announced progress and that they were close, Bettman announced his disappointment and said they were far apart and rejected the NHLPA offer and closed talks.

This is what Bettman does (I heard Paul Kelly or someone similar on the radio a few years ago). You say something that he's not interested in, he gets pissed. Then a couple days later you get a phone call and it's Bettman saying "you know, I've been thinking of this new idea..." - and it's the exact same thing you've already suggested. He just totally makes it sound like he came up with it.

Anyway we'll see what happens. Was hopeful for an early Christmas present, but that idea got Fehr'd up.

First it was "make whole". Then it was the salary split. Then it was "pensions". Now it's contract length. The NHLPA needs to make up it's effing mind as to what is important to them and stop moving the friggin' goalposts.

This last offer from the NHL was decent - everyone could make millions, and that's really what the final goal is.

 

[solbes]

Oh my, what a bunch of clowns on both sides. I don't think I've ever seen an announcement saying a deal was immenent. And then returning to the podium to say sides are so far apart that they are no longer talking. The sky must be red or purple on their planet.

Empty seats is what both sides deserve, even though we won't have the pleasure of seeing it happen.

 

[arturo7]

It's a fraggin circus.

 

[Homercidal]

Well what it comes down to is that the Owners don't care about playing hockey. They only care about taking as much of the pie as they can get.

Bettman himself said that the owners demand "3 or 4 things". They can work with the players on the other things. Nobody wants to negotiate with ultimatums like that.

It's not really a bargaining process. That would imply there is some give and take from both sides. Players aren't gaining a single thing from this. It's not like they are giving up 7% of revenue and getting something in return. Just maybe less of a buggering in some other area.

 

[paulster2626]

Well what it comes down to is that the Owners don't care about playing hockey. They only care about taking as much of the pie as they can get.

Bettman himself said that the owners demand "3 or 4 things". They can work with the players on the other things. Nobody wants to negotiate with ultimatums like that.

It's not really a bargaining process. That would imply there is some give and take from both sides. Players aren't gaining a single thing from this. It's not like they are giving up 7% of revenue and getting something in return. Just maybe less of a buggering in some other area.

Bettman and the owners believe that the things they are asking for are necessary for the future sustainability of a 30-team league.

They also want the CBA to be 10 years so we (fans) don't have to go through this any time soon.

Please explain to me how these players are getting buggered. They made 57% of revenue last season. That's $1.8 billion. No expenses, just payment. The NHL as a whole made $250 million after paying for, well, everything.

You tell me who's getting buggered in that situation.

Also please tell me what the League has TO give the players. As in, what could they possibly offer? More revenue sharing to keep teams afloat and thus keep more players employed? Well they did that. Increased perks like private hotel rooms? They did that, too. Honoring all the existing contracts? Yup. They said they'd do that as well.

For what it's worth (nothing?) I think we'll have a deal next week. Fehr just wants to make sure he's squeezed every last drop of frustration out of Gary Bettman. The sides are soooo close on a deal, neither of them could be stupid enough to throw it all away. Right???

 

[Homercidal]

If that's Fehr's goal then we'll be here forever. Bettman is a bottomless source of frustration.

Those things you mentioned the owners were giving to the players were things that they took away at the start of the negotiations. It's not like the players are anywhere near gaining. They are still losing badly.

The league has no interest in finding other ways of making money for themselves with the portion they receive. They took 25% just the last contract and ended up in worse shape than ever even when you add their portion of the massive increase in revenue.

It's time they got serious about ending the lockout. At this point it's all about Bettman saving face. He came on camera spitting and sputtering mad about the union taking their concession and wanting to move on to the next provision. That's negotiating. Did he expect them to suddenly roll over on all the other provisions? If so then he is even more ignorant than people think.

He's in a tough spot. The union can disband and sue if it comes to that. Then the league can hire scabs and replacements if it dares. Not sure how that would work out as far as fans go. That's like someone taking the engine out of your 550 HP sports car and replacing it with an L4 Chevy.

I just started to wonder if the league planned on cutting ticket prices if they end up getting a certain amount of concessions from the players. They might be able to afford to attract more fans to the arenas if they spend less on player salaries and perks...

I bet that's what they are trying to do. Make games more afordable for the fans. Yeah. That's it.

 

[Leeds1]

A 30 team league isn't viable, contraction would a good thing for the NHL.

 

[emjay]

A 30 team league isn't viable, contraction would a good thing for the NHL.

It would have been a good thing if they didn't expand so aggressively in the first place, but to go back and contract the league would be utterly disastrous for MANY parties - MANY players, MANY owners, MANY teams, MANY fans, and even MANY other businesses.

This is probably as extreme a case of "easier said than done" as it can possibly get.

 

[paulster2626]

If that's Fehr's goal then we'll be here forever. Bettman is a bottomless source of frustration.

Those things you mentioned the owners were giving to the players were things that they took away at the start of the negotiations. It's not like the players are anywhere near gaining. They are still losing badly.

The league has no interest in finding other ways of making money for themselves with the portion they receive. They took 25% just the last contract and ended up in worse shape than ever even when you add their portion of the massive increase in revenue.

It's time they got serious about ending the lockout. At this point it's all about Bettman saving face. He came on camera spitting and sputtering mad about the union taking their concession and wanting to move on to the next provision. That's negotiating. Did he expect them to suddenly roll over on all the other provisions? If so then he is even more ignorant than people think.

He's in a tough spot. The union can disband and sue if it comes to that. Then the league can hire scabs and replacements if it dares. Not sure how that would work out as far as fans go. That's like someone taking the engine out of your 550 HP sports car and replacing it with an L4 Chevy.

I just started to wonder if the league planned on cutting ticket prices if they end up getting a certain amount of concessions from the players. They might be able to afford to attract more fans to the arenas if they spend less on player salaries and perks...

I bet that's what they are trying to do. Make games more afordable for the fans. Yeah. That's it.

You said it's the players who are giving everything - the owners are offering no concessions. I agree with this, but please tell me what exactly the owners have to offer. What could they offer?

Also I'm curious as to how much cheaper you think ticket prices should get to attract fans to places like Phoenix and Tampa.

 

[dudius]

You said it's the players who are giving everything - the owners are offering no concessions. I agree with this, but please tell me what exactly the owners have to offer. What could they offer?

Also I'm curious as to how much cheaper you think ticket prices should get to attract fans to places like Phoenix and Tampa.

Well teams like the LA Clippers have $11 tickets.

 

[paulster2626]

Well teams like the LA Clippers have $11 tickets.

Do you know how much tickets are in Phoenix? Tickets as low as $20, and that's face-value. They're even cheaper from scalpers. I bought 2 tickets that would have cost $185 each in Toronto for $25 each in Phoenix. And the place is 1/2 full, and they have a great team.

Do you know how much tickets are in Tampa? Upper bowl is $20 as well.

Are you telling me that it's the fact that tickets are $5-10 too much that people don't show up? Point is these teams exist and they aren't going anywhere. It's best for the League and the NHLPA to figure out a way where these teams can exist and not bleed money all year. That's what the owners are trying to do.