Equally Obnoxious Hockey Trash Talk Thread, eh?

[schmoe]

That was a generous slashing call.

 

[jtkratzer]

Disclaimer about my earlier comments - I'm all for big hits, physical play, etc, but there was no need for Kronwall to go full bore into that hit, especially hitting the head/face first.

Jake has to do more than look up before picking up the puck, especially with Kronwall's reputation, but there has to be a respect amongst the players for each other in the same way they talk about not boarding players - because of the risk of injury. With all the concussion talk today, that's exactly the spot to make a hit, but not try to decapitate the guy.

 

[jtkratzer]

That was a generous slashing call.

The calls against the Flyers have generally been soft since the Kronwall hit.

 

[schmoe]

Disclaimer about my earlier comments - I'm all for big hits, physical play, etc, but there was no need for Kronwall to go full bore into that hit, especially hitting the head/face first.

Jake has to do more than look up before picking up the puck, especially with Kronwall's reputation, but there has to be a respect amongst the players for each other in the same way they talk about not boarding players - because of the risk of injury. With all the concussion talk today, that's exactly the spot to make a hit, but not try to decapitate the guy.

I agree. It didn't look like Kronwall was head hunting, but a head shot is a head shot.

 

[paulster2626]

At least the Leafs had a chance against the Bruins this time... that's all we're cheering for at this point.

I'm going to go and cry myself to sleep now.

 

[Boleslaus]

I think it probably should have been a penalty when called in real time. But this is my opinion on supplemental discipline. It is designed to discourage continued behavior (i.e. targeting vulnerable players and delivering dangerous hits). Hits like this should not result in fines or suspension. If you had clean intentions and didn't do anything dangerous, then no suspension is warranted.

 

[schmoe]

I think it probably should have been a penalty when called in real time. But this is my opinion on supplemental discipline. It is designed to discourage continued behavior (i.e. targeting vulnerable players and delivering dangerous hits). Hits like this should not result in fines or suspension. If you had clean intentions and didn't do anything dangerous, then no suspension is warranted.

I think his saving grace will be that he kept his arm down and seemed to be standing pretty straight up.

 

[Boleslaus]

I think his saving grace will be that he kept his arm down and seemed to be standing pretty straight up.

Exactly...some hits are just violent...and if it gets penalized in game then that's fine, it happens. You're opinion will be skewed depending on your allegiances. However, if you view the hit and don't say "that needs to be removed from the game" then you CAN'T suspend it.

 

[jtkratzer]

I think his saving grace will be that he kept his arm down and seemed to be standing pretty straight up.

I think his saving grace will be the player he his wears a Philly jersey.

Flyers win 3 straight for the first time since December...Bryz is looking like he pulled a 180.

 

[jtkratzer]

I think it probably should have been a penalty when called in real time. But this is my opinion on supplemental discipline. It is designed to discourage continued behavior (i.e. targeting vulnerable players and delivering dangerous hits). Hits like this should not result in fines or suspension. If you had clean intentions and didn't do anything dangerous, then no suspension is warranted.

Isn't firmly planting your shoulder into someone's face at least marginally dangerous, considering the atmosphere of the league, all professional sports, when it comes to concussions?

Exactly...some hits are just violent...and if it gets penalized in game then that's fine, it happens. You're opinion will be skewed depending on your allegiances. However, if you view the hit and don't say "that needs to be removed from the game" then you CAN'T suspend it.

The type of hit, as in the d-man stepping up to hit the forward trying to break out, does not need to be removed, but hitting the guy in the face, where the face is the first point of contact is already a rule in the book declared as an infraction.

I couldn't care less who is playing, it is going to get a guy hurt every time you put two 180+ guys going opposition directions and contact is between a shoulder and a head/face.

 

[Boleslaus]

When you are a defenseman stepping up, you are worried about yourself. Kronwall hits with correct form and doesn't charge. If the forward looks down and leans forward that isn't the hitters responsibility. The league needs to suspend players who endanger other players with their own actions. I'm putting the blame on the forward in this instance.

 

[schmoe]

It always seems to come down to the same thing... How much responsibility does the puck carrier have to keep his head up? If he has his head up, he doesn't get hit at all.

 

[Boleslaus]

It always seems to come down to the same thing... How much responsibility does the puck carrier have to keep his head up? If he has his head up, he doesn't get hit at all.

Exactly, Kronwall doesn't break any rules...so how can he be punished? Yes the primary point of contact is the head, but he didn't change his position to increase the likelihood of head contact. The puck carrier literally skated full stride, head down in to him.

 

[Rubes]

At least the Leafs had a chance against the Bruins this time... that's all we're cheering for at this point.

I'm going to go and cry myself to sleep now.

I missed the game, but listening to Leafs Talk on the radio after it sounded like they played a really good game, and actually played hard the entire 60 minutes. I can be happy about that, Boston is a great team.

 

[jtkratzer]

When you are a defenseman stepping up, you are worried about yourself. Kronwall hits with correct form and doesn't charge. If the forward looks down and leans forward that isn't the hitters responsibility. The league needs to suspend players who endanger other players with their own actions. I'm putting the blame on the forward in this instance.

It always seems to come down to the same thing... How much responsibility does the puck carrier have to keep his head up? If he has his head up, he doesn't get hit at all.

I understand what both of you are saying, but he looked up, before accepting the puck, it looks like the puck gets passed him, and he's reaching for it at the same time Kronwall hits him. My point is that Kronwall certainly didn't let up at all and just bump him. He throttled him. That Voracek required stitches above and below his mouth only amplifies my point that the hit was excessive and it was still to the head.

Guys who have their heads down coming across the blue line and leave themselves open to the now-defined blind-side hit are protected because it's a hit to the head and they are vulnerable, as is the guy facing the boards. The point is that Voracek didn't need to be hit as hard as he was to take him out of the play, let alone the game, and possibly the season, or if it's like Crosby, maybe a career.

I'm all about making players responsible for their actions on the ice, including keeping their heads up, but I've seen too many calls go against players, specifically Flyers, where a player turns to face the boards right before impact and the Flyer gets a penalty and sometimes suspended for boarding.

If Scott Hartnell, Zac Rinaldo, Wayne Simmonds, Chris Pronger, etc makes that exact same hit, it's a roughing minor at a minimum.

 

[arturo7]

Blues rising

Hawks fading

 

[jtkratzer]

Exactly, Kronwall doesn't break any rules...so how can he be punished? Yes the primary point of contact is the head, but he didn't change his position to increase the likelihood of head contact. The puck carrier literally skated full stride, head down in to him.

How is it not blatantly obvious that hits to the head, and hits where the head is specifically targeted have been one of the top discussions amongst the league, owners, GMs, etc over the last few years?

He didn't skate into Kronwall by himself. Kronwall changed directions to hit Voracek. Yes, Voracek's head was down, but Kronwall did nothing to avoid the head at all.

It's a tough call, but the fact is he didn't let up at all, didn't avoid the head, at all, and hurt an opposing player by hitting him and making contact with the head first.

 

[jtkratzer]

Exactly, Kronwall doesn't break any rules...so how can he be punished? Yes the primary point of contact is the head, but he didn't change his position to increase the likelihood of head contact. The puck carrier literally skated full stride, head down in to him.

If a player doesn't face the boards, he doesn't get boarded.


It comes down to respect for one another and the safety of the individual player.

 

[Boleslaus]

I understand what both of you are saying, but he looked up, before accepting the puck, it looks like the puck gets passed him, and he's reaching for it at the same time Kronwall hits him. My point is that Kronwall certainly didn't let up at all and just bump him. He throttled him. That Voracek required stitches above and below his mouth only amplifies my point that the hit was excessive and it was still to the head.

Guys who have their heads down coming across the blue line and leave themselves open to the now-defined blind-side hit are protected because it's a hit to the head and they are vulnerable, as is the guy facing the boards. The point is that Voracek didn't need to be hit as hard as he was to take him out of the play, let alone the game, and possibly the season, or if it's like Crosby, maybe a career.

I'm all about making players responsible for their actions on the ice, including keeping their heads up, but I've seen too many calls go against players, specifically Flyers, where a player turns to face the boards right before impact and the Flyer gets a penalty and sometimes suspended for boarding.

If Scott Hartnell, Zac Rinaldo, Wayne Simmonds, Chris Pronger, etc makes that exact same hit, it's a roughing minor at a minimum.

But this isn't' a hit facing the boards or a blind side across blue line hit. Voracek essentially gave himself a hospital pass. When the puck is behind you and there is a defenseman in front of you, you don't put your head down and try to pull the puck forward. You stop and put it on your forehand. I'm sorry, but this is self inflicted. The violence of the hit can't be what determines if it is legal or not. Otherwise you'll have checking turn into rubbing guys into the boards. Open ice hits are by definition violent.

 

[Boleslaus]

How is it not blatantly obvious that hits to the head, and hits where the head is specifically targeted have been one of the top discussions amongst the league, owners, GMs, etc over the last few years?

He didn't skate into Kronwall by himself. Kronwall changed directions to hit Voracek. Yes, Voracek's head was down, but Kronwall did nothing to avoid the head at all.

It's a tough call, but the fact is he didn't let up at all, didn't avoid the head, at all, and hurt an opposing player by hitting him and making contact with the head first.

I just can't justify this as a suspension worthy hit. Why does Kronwall have to let up? Why can't Voracek let up?

 

[jtkratzer]

But this isn't' a hit facing the boards or a blind side across blue line hit. Voracek essentially gave himself a hospital pass. When the puck is behind you and there is a defenseman in front of you, you don't put your head down and try to pull the puck forward. You stop and put it on your forehand. I'm sorry, but this is self inflicted. The violence of the hit can't be what determines if it is legal or not. Otherwise you'll have checking turn into rubbing guys into the boards. Open ice hits are by definition violent.

I just can't justify this as a suspension worthy hit. Why does Kronwall have to let up? Why can't Voracek let up?

I didn't say it was suspension worthy. Just that I was surprised there was no call on the play based on how quick the whistle blows (when it's not a Flyer hit) any time a hit involves the head.

Obviously you don't get suspended for being boarded when you're the guy who turns last minute making yourself vulnerable. Same thing here. You can see in the replay that he did look up as soon as he got the puck on his stick. What makes Kronwall's hit even more malicious was he was stepping up for the hit before Voracek even had the puck on his stick. As soon as he got the puck on his stick, his head comes up.

Why does Kronwall have to let up? Because the intent should be to disrupt the play, not hurt someone and you know you're going to hurt someone when you hit him like a freight train and the head is the first point of contact.

I love open ice hits, and I actually didn't care for the rule about the "blindside" open ice hit as you need to have your head on a swivel. I'm all about not targeting the head, but shoulder to shoulder should be good at any point/position on the ice. Hitting is part of the game, but trying to kill each other is what has shortened careers. Look at the hits Kasparaitis and Stevens put on people (they definitely contributed to the shortening/ending of Lindross's career).

 

[arturo7]

Shanny, Bettman, and NBC will have the players wearing skirts next season.

 

[Northjerzyg]

And dancing like marys....

Missed tonights game, heard Duubs Gotz a Whoopin and left the game with a hand injury? Then the Devils scored a couple lucky goals and won. Oh well, at least they didnt beat us every game this season..........

 

[cmendo2005]

If there is one thing I hate more than anything else in the NHL to be honest its the vs/NBC announcers They're terrible

 

[thedingo]

nucks are screwed if they draw the stars in the playoffs they just can't get up on them this season.

 

[cmendo2005]

Nucks should bomb the rest of the season so they don't have home ice, never seen a team play so well away from home and so mediocre at home.

 

[schmoe]

Nucks should bomb the rest of the season so they don't have home ice, never seen a team play so well away from home and so mediocre at home.

Sounds like the Red Wings from last year.

 

[wildwest450]

Anyone who thinks that hit was anything other than sweet, is nuts. Just because hockey is turning into girls lacrosse doesn't mean someone can't be laid out by a good clean hit.

He was looking for quarters on the ice and got blasted, exactly what should have happened.

 

[paulster2626]

Anyone who thinks that hit was anything other than sweet, is nuts. Just because hockey is turning into girls lacrosse doesn't mean someone can't be laid out by a good clean hit.

He was looking for quarters on the ice and got blasted, exactly what should have happened.

100% agree.

This is the fork in the road for the League right now I think.

According to Shanaban's rules:
The principal point of contact was the head.
The player did not change his position immediately before contact.
It is up to Kronwall to attempt to avoid hitting Voracek in the head.

However - this was 100% Voracek's fault. There's a reason why we don't try to brush out a puck from the boards like that. It's something you learn very early in hockey by - get this - getting pasted. It's why I hate HATE playing left wing (I shoot right). Puck gets caught up in the snow along the boards and you get all screwed up trying to dig it out on the backhand. You have to instead make sure you keep both hands on your stick and are forced to pass it to a breaking forward. It's a recipe for failure.

Plus, I would expect NHL players to know when Kronwall is on the ice and is about to plaster someone with his shoulder.

 

[jtkratzer]

Sounds like the Red Wings from last year.

And this year's Flyers. Before they played like turds for the last few weeks they were the best road team in the league and pretty average at home.

Anyone who thinks that hit was anything other than sweet, is nuts. Just because hockey is turning into girls lacrosse doesn't mean someone can't be laid out by a good clean hit.

He was looking for quarters on the ice and got blasted, exactly what should have happened.

Yeah, that's fine, but no need to destroy a guy's face. You can't blame the player all the time the same way you don't blame the player facing the boards who gets hit from behind.

There has to be some level of mutual respect, at least amongst the players who are not dirtbags. There is a respect amongst the fighters in how they do business. In today's league with the headshot rules, there has to be a respect amongst the players not to destroy each other's skulls...or there should be suspensions.

I am fully aware Jake had his head down, but that's not a free pass to blast him in the face where the shoulder hitting the face is the first point of contact. Kronwall could have just as effectively stopped the play and kept the puck in the zone without trying to kill Jake.

That's my point. It's a lack of respect and a hit to the head. Yes, Jake's head was down. Hit Rinaldo that way, fine. He's a guy that everyone hates.

The other side of the coin is everyone who follows the NHL knows that if that was turned around, and it was a Flyer making that hit, it probably would have been a major and the refs definitely would not have circled the wagons I protect that guy the way they did last night.

It's not a conspiracy thing, it's just the way it is when you play in Philly, the rules are different for you and the penalties are harsher when you're the offender and they're softer when you're the victim of a hit.

100% agree.

This is the fork in the road for the League right now I think.

According to Shanaban's rules:
The principal point of contact was the head.
The player did not change his position immediately before contact.
It is up to Kronwall to attempt to avoid hitting Voracek in the head.

However - this was 100% Voracek's fault. There's a reason why we don't try to brush out a puck from the boards like that. It's something you learn very early in hockey by - get this - getting pasted. It's why I hate HATE playing left wing (I shoot right). Puck gets caught up in the snow along the boards and you get all screwed up trying to dig it out on the backhand. You have to instead make sure you keep both hands on your stick and are forced to pass it to a breaking forward. It's a recipe for failure.

Plus, I would expect NHL players to know when Kronwall is on the ice and is about to plaster someone with his shoulder.

See above. That's the fastest way to learn to keep your head up, but you also play at a different level that in peewee or juniors where dudes do try to kill each other to get to the NHL. Knrowall is not a guy trying to keep his job like Steve Downie a few years ago when he hit Dean McAmmond (spelling, Ottawa player) and got 25 games for charging and a hit to the head. Very similar time frame when Jesse Boulerice had a short stint with the Flyers and got a 25 game suspension for cross checking Ryan Kessler in the face.

Yet when Corburn is boarded by Staal from Bettman's dream team, nothing more than a fine worth less than a weekend bar tab for these guys is handed out.

It's just the way it is for the Flyers. Whenever anyone gets crushed, it's a good solid hit. Any time there's a hit like that and the Flyers are the aggressor, it's dirty, and penalties are handed out, if not for the hit, for the scrum that ensues afterward.

Look at how Rinaldo gets a penalty for breathing on guys, same with Hartnell. It's the way it is.