English ale with honey ... first brew ... smells like wine? Bottling tomorrow!

[jph2275]

Hello!

My name is Pat from Temple, TX by Austin. My father in law and I brewed a batch of English Ale with an extra pound of honey in it two weeks ago. We are excited about bottling tomorrow, but I have one concern ..

My beer smells like fruit/wine! When I take the airlock off it smells like I opened a bottle of wine or some sort of fruit flavor when I smell it!

We are brewing in a 5 gallon plastic carboy. We used cleanatizer religiously throughout the whole process but I am afraid it could have gotten contaminated somehow? There is a brown crust lining the top of the carboy and a slight white growth is developing in the neck. This could be from the foaming of fermentation, perhaps? There is no white mold or growth floating in our carboy however. We had a strong bubbling roll for 7-8 days from the yeast.

Is the smell of wine/fruit from an english ale considered normal? Do we have a contaminated batch of beer or is this "esters" produced as an alcohol byproduct? IF we have ruined it, any way to salvage it?

Thanks. New here. Trying to learn. Thanks for your help, we are hoping to bottle tomorrow!

I have included pictures below:

Respectfully,

Patrick

 

[jph2275]

Sorry for the sideways pics .. stupid iPhone

 

[globe]

How does it taste? It is most likely fine, lots of weird smells can come from the carboy. The stuff you are seeing is indeed from the foam aka krausen. Its just yeast/hop particles/etc, nothing to worry about.

 

[RM-MN]

It looks like a pretty normal fermentation to me. The smell could be caused by 2 different things. If you ferment the beer too warm the yeast will create some esters that may smell fruity or perhaps like bananas. The other is the smell of green apples or cider and it is from acetaldehyde, one of the intermediate products the yeast make on the way to alcohol. I'd suggest you not bottle this tomorrow and instead wait another week as the yeast will work to eliminate the smells.

 

[jph2275]

How does it taste? It is most likely fine, lots of weird smells can come from the carboy. The stuff you are seeing is indeed from the foam aka krausen. Its just yeast/hop particles/etc, nothing to worry about.

I haven't tasted it yet. Perhaps I should. Thanks for the relief. I just thought that perhaps I had contaminated my first batch want it to be a success. Ill taste it tomorrow when bottling and post taste description

 

[jph2275]

It looks like a pretty normal fermentation to me. The smell could be caused by 2 different things. If you ferment the beer too warm the yeast will create some esters that may smell fruity or perhaps like bananas. The other is the smell of green apples or cider and it is from acetaldehyde, one of the intermediate products the yeast make on the way to alcohol. I'd suggest you not bottle this tomorrow and instead wait another week as the yeast will work to eliminate the smells.

The beer was fermented in a plastic carboy in a dark closet at 70-74 degrees ambient temperature. Maybe that was too warm? Thanks for the advice, ill consider not bottling tomorrow. Kind of want to still, trying to wrap my mind around the whole "being patient" thing.

 

[boydster]

The beer was fermented in a plastic carboy in a dark closet at 70-74 degrees ambient temperature. Maybe that was too warm? Thanks for the advice, ill consider not bottling tomorrow. Kind of want to still, trying to wrap my mind around the whole "being patient" thing.

What yeast strain did you use? Initial thoughts: Yes, probably warmer than you typically want to go, the fermentation temperature can be 5-10° higher than ambient temperature and most ale yeasts will begin making a lot of esters in the mid-70°+ range. I think it fades some with time (I've read it before but haven't experimented myself to confirm) but for most ale yeasts, you want to target a fermentation temperature in the low to mid 60°s.

With respect to bottling, are you able to take gravity readings? Specific gravity should be the same for 3+ days, and within your target range, to make sure you are at the final gravity before bottling. Otherwise you risk having bottle bombs

 

[jph2275]

What yeast strain did you use? Initial thoughts: Yes, probably warmer than you typically want to go, the fermentation temperature can be 5-10° higher than ambient temperature and most ale yeasts will begin making a lot of esters in the mid-70°+ range. I think it fades some with time (I've read it before but haven't experimented myself to confirm) but for most ale yeasts, you want to target a fermentation temperature in the low to mid 60°s.

With respect to bottling, are you able to take gravity readings? Specific gravity should be the same for 3+ days, and within your target range, to make sure you are at the final gravity before bottling. Otherwise you risk having bottle bombs

Bottle bombs ... that would stink. I used a dry yeast that came in a package with my kit from the homebrew supply store. Ill see if I can find the exact name. I guess I'll try and keep the next batches of Ale we make a little cooler than. Ahhh today is supposed to be bottling day, to wait or not to wait ...

 

[jph2275]

What yeast strain did you use? Initial thoughts: Yes, probably warmer than you typically want to go, the fermentation temperature can be 5-10° higher than ambient temperature and most ale yeasts will begin making a lot of esters in the mid-70°+ range. I think it fades some with time (I've read it before but haven't experimented myself to confirm) but for most ale yeasts, you want to target a fermentation temperature in the low to mid 60°s.

With respect to bottling, are you able to take gravity readings? Specific gravity should be the same for 3+ days, and within your target range, to make sure you are at the final gravity before bottling. Otherwise you risk having bottle bombs

I will take a taste test and gravity reading in 2-3 hours and post results

 

[Chadwick]

All I've got to say about honey in beer is this. 1lb, 2lb, good. 3lb, 4lb, could. 5lb, 6lb, no.

 

[boydster]

Cool, will this be the first gravity reading?

Yes, bottle bombs are a bad thing for sure. If you are taking your first potential final gravity reading, you might still want to wait on bottling until you are positive you are at final gravity. Even if you are at the FG listed on the recipe, your beer may still drop lower. That's why you really want to take readings 3 days apart and make sure they stay the same.

 

[jph2275]

What yeast strain did you use? Initial thoughts: Yes, probably warmer than you typically want to go, the fermentation temperature can be 5-10° higher than ambient temperature and most ale yeasts will begin making a lot of esters in the mid-70°+ range. I think it fades some with time (I've read it before but haven't experimented myself to confirm) but for most ale yeasts, you want to target a fermentation temperature in the low to mid 60°s.

With respect to bottling, are you able to take gravity readings? Specific gravity should be the same for 3+ days, and within your target range, to make sure you are at the final gravity before bottling. Otherwise you risk having bottle bombs

I used Dry Yeasts' "Windsor Ale". It was a package i just dumped in at room temperature. I ended up bottling it and have tasted it last Sunday at the 1 week mark. I didn't care for the taste during bottling, it wasn't bad I just didn't want to finish it. I tasted at 1 week and it was nicely carbonated and it was "ok." Significantly improved from pre-bottling. I think I may have let the fermentation temp get too high so I have made a swamp cooler for next time.


Does you or anyone else think it will continue to improve in taste over the next two weeks?

 

[jph2275]

It looks like a pretty normal fermentation to me. The smell could be caused by 2 different things. If you ferment the beer too warm the yeast will create some esters that may smell fruity or perhaps like bananas. The other is the smell of green apples or cider and it is from acetaldehyde, one of the intermediate products the yeast make on the way to alcohol. I'd suggest you not bottle this tomorrow and instead wait another week as the yeast will work to eliminate the smells.

Thanks for the advice :rockin:

I couldn't wait ... I bottled them. At week 1 carbonation has nicely occurred and the taste is decent. I'm hoping it will get better with two more weeks time.

 

[jph2275]

Cool, will this be the first gravity reading?

Yes, bottle bombs are a bad thing for sure. If you are taking your first potential final gravity reading, you might still want to wait on bottling until you are positive you are at final gravity. Even if you are at the FG listed on the recipe, your beer may still drop lower. That's why you really want to take readings 3 days apart and make sure they stay the same.

No bombs yet

The gravity was around 1.0. I've never taken one before so I couldn't tell. I need to be taught how to read those accurately.

Good advice.

 

[Shred]

Bottle bombs ... that would stink. I used a dry yeast that came in a package with my kit from the homebrew supply store. Ill see if I can find the exact name. I guess I'll try and keep the next batches of Ale we make a little cooler than. Ahhh today is supposed to be bottling day, to wait or not to wait ...

Never trust the dry yeast that comes in kits. No way to know what it's been subjected to in transport and storage. Everything else in a kit is fine, but I'd always recommend spending the couple extra bucks on a fresh yeast packet.

 

[jph2275]

Never trust the dry yeast that comes in kits. No way to know what it's been subjected to in transport and storage. Everything else in a kit is fine, but I'd always recommend spending the couple extra bucks on a fresh yeast packet.

Good to know. My cousin who has brewed in the past picked my starter kit and ingredients for me when I wasn't even aware liquid yeast existed. I have used liquid on my last 2 batches and had great results so far. Ill stick to them. Again, good to know

 

[jph2275]

Never trust the dry yeast that comes in kits. No way to know what it's been subjected to in transport and storage. Everything else in a kit is fine, but I'd always recommend spending the couple extra bucks on a fresh yeast packet.

Any thoughts on it improving over the next two weeks?

 

[Chadwick]

I did an IPA using 6lbs of honey a while back. At first they were one of the most awful tasting beers I ever created. I cannot stress how bad it was. However, after aging for an extended period of time, they improved significantly. They aren't to bad at all now. The only drawback is that they produce terrible headaches the next day if you drink more than two in the evening. I'm sure fusel alcohols are to blame.

I've since learned to be far more conservative with my honey additions. I made a Scottish ale using 3lbs of honey and it is remarkably good, but then again, extended aging is what brought it there. I have a large amount of honey on hand, so I've been using it at every opportunity. It has been a learning experience. My personal conclusion for my own purposes is to never use more than 2-3lbs of the stuff and be prepared to age it longer than a typical beer. I suggest 4x the aging time of normal brew.

 

[Shred]

Good to know. My cousin who has brewed in the past picked my starter kit and ingredients for me when I wasn't even aware liquid yeast existed. I have used liquid on my last 2 batches and had great results so far. Ill stick to them. Again, good to know

Nothing against dry yeast... I just don't trust the packets that come in the kits. And, yes - your beer will improve dramatically over the next 2 weeks.

Also, at 1 week the carbonation is going to be unpredictable. One bottle may foam out all over the place and another may be dead flat.... or you might get lucky and have one that seems normal.

As a rule - it takes a minimum of 2.5 weeks for the CO2 created by the yeast eating the priming sugar to be adequately forced into solution. After the 2.5 week (minimum) at 70+ degrees, put a beer in the fridge and leave it for a couple days to clear and carb up.

There's debate on the topic, but I say taste one every week it's aging so you can begin to learn how it develops.