Emerging microbrewery trend

[swackattack]

For someone who is not envious you sound awful green

 

[Demon]

Sam Calagione is an exception. He had passion and was self driven although he did nurse from his pops teat in the early stages.

You don't know if he's the exception. It took 18 years to get where he is. Give the new young brewers your original post was about 18 years, then you can say if he's the exception or not.

 

[ghosthef]

A lot of these guys that have made it started small...some right out of their garage. They had vision. A large obstacle now is that there are so many craft breweries opening up and you have to compete to get your beer on the shelf or in a restaraunt. Probably the best way to go these days is to open it in tandem with a pub and build up the brand. I remember when Russian River opened up...wasn't busy,...no one knew ago they were...but they were convenient and had food so people went. Their great beers just made their following get bigger and bigger and now see where they are.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

For someone who is not envious you sound awful green

If you say so. Seems to me like those who take offense to my opinion of daddy supported success likely have an attachment to the teat their self.

 

[bknifefight]

If you say so. Seems to me like those who take offense to my opinion of daddy supported success likely have an attachment to the teat their self.

And this statement is accurate for 95% of you slackers

 

[tc33133]

I can see where the OP is coming from. The thing that bothers me is as the craft brewing market becomes more saturated, there is more of a push for marketing before a product is even on the market. This marketing is most effective on the internet, and the younger kids have the time/knowledge that many of us old guys don't have. There is a not yet opened brewery in town that raised $40k for a kickstarter campaign, without a product on the market. Obviously, the success was based on marketing and not a consumable product. Its hard for me to get my head around that.

 

[Ghost1220]

Any room left on the Jealousy Train?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

And this statement is accurate for 95% of you slackers

You are taking my 95% rule way out of context.

I originally said that 95% of the time when I prejudge I am correct, the other 5% include the exception - those who do not fit into a certain stereotypical group.

So yes, going back to my original statement. There is a great chance that a 22 year old knows very little about making great beer. Good drinkable beer, yes. Great beer, no.

I have been home brewing for about 4 months (reading and researching just over a year) and while most of what I brew is very good and very drinkable I wouldn't consider it good enough to open a brewery.

If I ever went the route of opening a brewery it will be several more years and only then will I create great beer. Until then I will be learning.

 

[TyTanium]

<Very tempted to go into a behavioral economics rant about flawed biases & heuristics>

Nah, I'll just have another beer from one of the 15 awesome breweries nearby.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Any room left on the Jealousy Train?

Sure hop aboard.

I wouldn't necessarily call it jealousy, to me its more less seeing these guys as undeserving. I know that if I wanted to do what they are doing I could and I would succeed (assuming i brewed fantastic beer that everyone wants to drink).

 

[StressedPenguin]

There is a lot of bitterness in this thread over something I don't understand. I see you are angry but your points all seem to boil down to bitterness rather than well reasoned arguments.

Just to examine your arguments you take two groups you know of personally, then a bunch you have read about, and say you don't like them opening breweries. The reasons for this seem to boil down to:

1) They are too young/inexperienced
2) They are getting financial help from relatives

There are many generalizations listed throughout your argument, specifically:
1) If you are 22-23 and fresh out of college you are irresponsible and incapable of opening a business.
2) The owners of the businesses are going to be the brewers, and there is no way they have any good beer recipes to offer the area and are completely and 100 percent incapable of making good beer.
3) Young people opening breweries have degrees that are worthless/difficult to get a real job with and have no life experiences.
4) It is wrong to save money as a parent to provide your child to offer them a better life than what you had when you were growing up.
5) Once successful, these young people will devolve into a cocaine snorting and irresponsible spending spiral, eventually ending up dead in some meth house (exaggeration taken for effect).

1) I get it, you are irritated this is happening, but your generalizations are wrong. Just because you, or people you have met, were a 22-23 year old fresh out of college who was incapable of opening a business doesn't mean they will be.
2) It is too easy to come onto this forum, look up a couple recipes that people rate highly, and scale it up a bit and make it. Or have a family friend who brews and they let you use their recipe and are just excited to see it in production. Look at others on this very board who have been approached by smaller breweries and asked if they can make their recipe. Or, MAYBE they came up with a good recipe on their own! Blasphemy!
3) I turned 27 less than a month ago, and I promise I have done and seen more of this world than 90 percent of America will in their entire lives. Age does not automatically equal experience or maturity. For every young person you know incapable of opening a business I know a 30-40 year old who STILL isn't.
4) I simply disagree with this.
5) ... or they will succeed?

As for the overall problems you have with it, I simply counter that a young age does not necessarily mean inexperience or immaturity, and more businesses than you will be happy with have gotten financial backing from relatives. Hell, even 30-40 year olds may be able to get financial backing from relatives to make their dreams come true.

It just sounds like you are wishing failure on those you know and every other young person who wants to try something. Maybe you should just be happy that there will be more choices of beer to drink in the near future. Or just don't drink theirs and only give those breweries whose starting steps you approve of business?

Disclaimer: I have received no financial backing from my parents for my life, including college, nor for writing this post.

 

[StressedPenguin]

I can see where the OP is coming from. The thing that bothers me is as the craft brewing market becomes more saturated, there is more of a push for marketing before a product is even on the market. This marketing is most effective on the internet, and the younger kids have the time/knowledge that many of us old guys don't have. There is a not yet opened brewery in town that raised $40k for a kickstarter campaign, without a product on the market. Obviously, the success was based on marketing and not a consumable product. Its hard for me to get my head around that.

I can accept this as the reasoning, but the easy way to remedy this from a business standpoint is pay some young, inexperienced 22-23 year old fresh out of college good for nothing and have him advertise for you.

Or ask a younger relative? Is it bad to get help from parents but okay to get it from children? I am not sure where the OP is drawing the line at business assistance.

 

[TyTanium]

Sure hop aboard.

I wouldn't necessarily call it jealousy, to me its more less seeing these guys as undeserving. I know that if I wanted to do what they are doing I could and I would succeed.

There's never a shortage of capital, only a shortage of good ideas.

Bad idea + capital = burning money
Good idea + no capital = attracts capital

 

[MalFet]

A friend of a friend tried to start a brewery at 23. Name was Ken Grossman or something. I never heard what happened, but I'm sure it went belly up. Fresh out of college, how good could his beer have been?

 

[b-boy]

I used to work with a guy who opened a bar when he was 24. He and 2 of his buddies got together and bought a place. All 3 were from wealthy families and got backed by their parents. I have no idea how they got a liquor license in NY at that age, but they did.

I went a few times. It was a nice place in a great area, but you could tell by their attitudes it wouldn't last. This guy didn't even quit his day job to run the place. They used it to pickup girls, drink, and invite all their buddies over to drink. They never treated it as a business, but more like a hangout. The place stayed open for about 1-1/2 years then went under.

I'm not saying every 24 year old is wired that way. However, if I had to back someone I'd rather back a 30-40 year old with kids and his own money tied up in a venture like this.

On the other hand, there are a lot of younger people who do it on their own. Good for them. I think the key is earning it yourself.

 

[Keith66]

OP, I'm 46 now, and often express opinions like yours in the way that you did. I have conventional values and ideas and relate more to my parents' generation than to my own or those younger than me. I have also been proven wrong (and embarrassed) in many cases, and have learned through various experiences that times have changed, and continue to change at an incredible rate. I have seen young people pathetically attached to their daddy's teat, wasting every penny they're given. I have also seen young people who are lucky enough to have been given a financial start by their parents (who earned their wealth), then work their a$$es off (as demonstrated by their parents), repay every penny (ethics learned from their parents), and make it on their own while still young. Apparently working in fast food is no longer a requirement for success, although I did my time there. I guess watching the average "kid" in this "entitled" generation take whatever they can get, then go "occupy" this or that has jaded me too. I get very cynical. Then out of nowhere, I'll get slapped back to the reassuring reality that behind all the whiners, there's still a population of gutsy, hard-working, ethical "kids" who are ambitious (and naive) enough to try entrepreneurship, and smart enough to seize an opportunity to do so, and many of them make it. I gotta give them props; it's a scary place to try to start a business these days. Anyone who tries, even with daddy's help, has guts. Those who don't have what it takes will fail eventually. Those who don't fail, no matter how young they start and where they get their initial money, apparently have what it takes. If I like their beer, I'll spend my money there and tell my friends to go. If not, I'll drive on by.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

There is a lot of bitterness in this thread over something I don't understand. I see you are angry but your points all seem to boil down to bitterness rather than well reasoned arguments.

Just to examine your arguments you take two groups you know of personally, then a bunch you have read about, and say you don't like them opening breweries. The reasons for this seem to boil down to:

1) They are too young/inexperienced
2) They are getting financial help from relatives

There are many generalizations listed throughout your argument, specifically:
1) If you are 22-23 and fresh out of college you are irresponsible and incapable of opening a business.
2) The owners of the businesses are going to be the brewers, and there is no way they have any good beer recipes to offer the area and are completely and 100 percent incapable of making good beer.
3) Young people opening breweries have degrees that are worthless/difficult to get a real job with and have no life experiences.
4) It is wrong to save money as a parent to provide your child to offer them a better life than what you had when you were growing up.
5) Once successful, these young people will devolve into a cocaine snorting and irresponsible spending spiral, eventually ending up dead in some meth house (exaggeration taken for effect).

1) I get it, you are irritated this is happening, but your generalizations are wrong. Just because you, or people you have met, were a 22-23 year old fresh out of college who was incapable of opening a business doesn't mean they will be.
2) It is too easy to come onto this forum, look up a couple recipes that people rate highly, and scale it up a bit and make it. Or have a family friend who brews and they let you use their recipe and are just excited to see it in production. Look at others on this very board who have been approached by smaller breweries and asked if they can make their recipe. Or, MAYBE they came up with a good recipe on their own! Blasphemy!
3) I turned 27 less than a month ago, and I promise I have done and seen more of this world than 90 percent of America will in their entire lives. Age does not automatically equal experience or maturity. For every young person you know incapable of opening a business I know a 30-40 year old who STILL isn't.
4) I simply disagree with this.
5) ... or they will succeed?

As for the overall problems you have with it, I simply counter that a young age does not necessarily mean inexperience or immaturity, and more businesses than you will be happy with have gotten financial backing from relatives. Hell, even 30-40 year olds may be able to get financial backing from relatives to make their dreams come true.

It just sounds like you are wishing failure on those you know and every other young person who wants to try something. Maybe you should just be happy that there will be more choices of beer to drink in the near future. Or just don't drink theirs and only give those breweries whose starting steps you approve of business?

Disclaimer: I have received no financial backing from my parents for my life, including college, nor for writing this post.

I'll break it down for you

1. IMO being self made makes you a stronger person in many aspects. Having financial backing handed to you at a young age is dangerous and often leads to failure
2. IMO good beer comes from experienced brewers. Experienced brewers tend to be older than 22 years old.

While many of you think this is a bitter rant, this is not the case.

 

[BrewKnurd]

While many of you think this is a bitter rant, this is not the case.

Could you elaborate on how it impacts your life when a 22 year old stats a brewery with his daddy's money? In other words, how are you deprived of an opportunity, or your life impacted in any meaningful way?

I guess I just don't understand why you care about this trend that your feel you are observing.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

OP, I'm 46 now, and often express opinions like yours in the way that you did. I have conventional values and ideas and relate more to my parents' generation than to my own or those younger than me. I have also been proven wrong (and embarrassed) in many cases, and have learned through various experiences that times have changed, and continue to change at an incredible rate. I have seen young people pathetically attached to their daddy's teat, wasting every penny they're given. I have also seen young people who are lucky enough to have been given a financial start by their parents (who earned their wealth), then work their a$$es off (as demonstrated by their parents), repay every penny (ethics learned from their parents), and make it on their own while still young. Apparently working in fast food is no longer a requirement for success, although I did my time there. I guess watching the average "kid" in this "entitled" generation take whatever they can get, then go "occupy" this or that has jaded me too. I get very cynical. Then out of nowhere, I'll get slapped back to the reassuring reality that behind all the whiners, there's still a population of gutsy, hard-working, ethical "kids" who are ambitious (and naive) enough to try entrepreneurship, and smart enough to seize an opportunity to do so, and many of them make it. I gotta give them props; it's a scary place to try to start a business these days. Anyone who tries, even with daddy's help, has guts. Those who don't have what it takes will fail eventually. Those who don't fail, no matter how young they start and where they get their initial money, apparently have what it takes. If I like their beer, I'll spend my money there and tell my friends to go. If not, I'll drive on by.

I agree, there are those who are given financial backing and do well.

At 31 years old, I too tend to relate to the values of my grandparents. So far, every venture that I have set my mind to has been successful. As most of you have likely guessed, I did it all myself with a lot of great advice from older mentors who showed me the ropes. I do give these folks credit but no monetary handouts were given.

My beliefs are traditional and simple. Doing it on your own makes you a stronger and wiser. Having it handed to you lessens you chances of success. I see these 22 yr old graduates as undeserving.

As I said before, my future children will get priceless advice from me and nothing else. Not because I am angry that I didn't have it handed to me, but because I firmly believe that it is what is best.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Could you elaborate on how it impacts your life when a 22 year old stats a brewery with his daddy's money? In other words, how are you deprived of an opportunity, or your life impacted in any meaningful way?

I guess I just don't understand why you care about this trend that your feel you are observing.

This has zero impact on my life and I'm not deprived of any opportunity.

 

[BrewKnurd]

This has zero impact on my life and I'm not deprived of any opportunity.

Then why do you care? I'm really just trying to understand.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

A friend of a friend tried to start a brewery at 23. Name was Ken Grossman or something. I never heard what happened, but I'm sure it went belly up. Fresh out of college, how good could his beer have been?

Ken brews one of my favorite beers - Torpedo IPA.

 

[MalFet]

Ken brews one of my favorite beers - Torpedo IPA.

Kids these days, eh?

 

[distributistdad]

I love this thread, mostly because of the copious amounts of laughter I got from reading it.

Clearly, there are some gents who have some brewery jealousy. I'm all about buying local and supporting the local brewery but I only buy one beer from one of the local breweries and two of the offerings from another brewery because the rest of their stuff is gross. Ironically, the one that I would drink any of their beers is a new start up (the brewmaster is in his early 30s) and he makes really great beer.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Then why do you care? I'm really just trying to understand.

I suppose it all boils down feeling as if few still believe in the American dream.

So many "entitled" youth have no idea what it means to work their way up in life. I see it as degradation of the core beliefs and founding of the US.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I love this thread, mostly because of the copious amounts of laughter I got from reading it.

Clearly, there are some gents who have some brewery jealousy. I'm all about buying local and supporting the local brewery but I only buy one beer from one of the local breweries and two of the offerings from another brewery because the rest of their stuff is gross. Ironically, the one that I would drink any of their beers is a new start up (the brewmaster is in his early 30s) and he makes really great beer.

Ok, I'm jealous. You got me.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Ok, I'm jealous. You got me.

BTW, early 30s is a respectable age. The master brewer has likely been at it for at least a decade. 22... not so much.

 

[distributistdad]

Ok, I'm jealous. You got me.

Well, I'm not a great brewer by any means, but I do like all the cool shiny stainless steel they have...

 

[Dave1096]

There is a lot of bitterness in this thread over something I don't understand. I see you are angry but your points all seem to boil down to bitterness rather than well reasoned arguments.

Just to examine your arguments you take two groups you know of personally, then a bunch you have read about, and say you don't like them opening breweries. The reasons for this seem to boil down to:

1) They are too young/inexperienced
2) They are getting financial help from relatives

There are many generalizations listed throughout your argument, specifically:
1) If you are 22-23 and fresh out of college you are irresponsible and incapable of opening a business.
2) The owners of the businesses are going to be the brewers, and there is no way they have any good beer recipes to offer the area and are completely and 100 percent incapable of making good beer.
3) Young people opening breweries have degrees that are worthless/difficult to get a real job with and have no life experiences.
4) It is wrong to save money as a parent to provide your child to offer them a better life than what you had when you were growing up.
5) Once successful, these young people will devolve into a cocaine snorting and irresponsible spending spiral, eventually ending up dead in some meth house (exaggeration taken for effect).

1) I get it, you are irritated this is happening, but your generalizations are wrong. Just because you, or people you have met, were a 22-23 year old fresh out of college who was incapable of opening a business doesn't mean they will be.
2) It is too easy to come onto this forum, look up a couple recipes that people rate highly, and scale it up a bit and make it. Or have a family friend who brews and they let you use their recipe and are just excited to see it in production. Look at others on this very board who have been approached by smaller breweries and asked if they can make their recipe. Or, MAYBE they came up with a good recipe on their own! Blasphemy!
3) I turned 27 less than a month ago, and I promise I have done and seen more of this world than 90 percent of America will in their entire lives. Age does not automatically equal experience or maturity. For every young person you know incapable of opening a business I know a 30-40 year old who STILL isn't.
4) I simply disagree with this.
5) ... or they will succeed?

As for the overall problems you have with it, I simply counter that a young age does not necessarily mean inexperience or immaturity, and more businesses than you will be happy with have gotten financial backing from relatives. Hell, even 30-40 year olds may be able to get financial backing from relatives to make their dreams come true.

It just sounds like you are wishing failure on those you know and every other young person who wants to try something. Maybe you should just be happy that there will be more choices of beer to drink in the near future. Or just don't drink theirs and only give those breweries whose starting steps you approve of business?

Disclaimer: I have received no financial backing from my parents for my life, including college, nor for writing this post.

Oh, snap!!! OP owned.

 

[StressedPenguin]

I'll break it down for you

1. IMO being self made makes you a stronger person in many aspects. Having financial backing handed to you at a young age is dangerous and often leads to failure
2. IMO good beer comes from experienced brewers. Experienced brewers tend to be older than 22 years old.

While many of you think this is a bitter rant, this is not the case.

I know these are your opinions and are most likely held as a result of experiences, so I have little chance of changing your mind just by typing something out on the internet. I wholeheartedly agree with point one, that it can make you stronger in many aspects. Instead of trying to change your mind just typing something on the internet, let me put it another way.

Is the strength you are referring to a result of the experience of starting from scratch or is it possible that it is already inherent in a person, ie what would happen to someone who would have succeeded from scratch if they were given a financial hand? I would submit that they would be just as successful, or even more so, because the strength of heart and commitment necessary was already in the person.

For point two, are you saying it isn't possible for someone to be raised by their parents or family friend with a knowledge on brewing before it may be necessarily legal for them to drink? You don't have to use your OWN recipes, but instead build off of others' work. If my (future) son decided to open a brewery and make some beer I came up with I would be honored.

Again, I know your beliefs are strong. I just want to put it less confrontational than I did before because frankly I came off as a ****.