Embarrassing Results From First Brew Competition - What Went Wrong?

[inkman15]

My favorite local bar decided to hold it's first home brew competition, so my friend and I were excited to enter.

A little background: we've been brewing for about 10 months and have brewed 5 batches (not anywhere near as much as I would like to have done). Overall, I've been pretty satisfied with our results but I'm well aware that we have a lot to learn and improve upon.

Our most successful brew to date was the Deception Stout recipe found on this site, so we decided to brew that again for this competition. Of course, because we really needed this one to go well, it didn't. We cracked open the fermenter after 4 weeks and found what people on this site said could be a Brett infection.

Since it was too late to brew another batch, we decided to make the best of it. We racked under the infection, bottled, and called it a day. Three weeks later, we tasted it and didn't detect any "infection flavors." It wasn't sour or anything and it still had that coffee taste that it was supposed to. So, we submitted it.

Well, the results came back last night and they were dreadful. There were 3 judged who rated based on aroma, appearance, mouthfeel, and taste. Here were our scores:

Judge 1: 20/50
Judge 2: 19/50
Judge 3: 14/50

Yikes. All three judges said it tasted "metallic" and that the aroma was "baby diaper." They also said it was a little "roasty."

So, what went wrong? Is the infection to blame? Something else? I know we're all a bit biased towards our own beer but this also has me wondering if my palate isn't developed enough yet to taste what the judges did

 

[bottlebomber]

There's no way for anyone here to tell what you might have done... I think a good place to start would be your water. Are you on a municipal system? What is the water profile and how much chlorine is there? Do you filter it?

I would love it if we could have more contests around here, this kind of feedback is exactly what helps you make better beer.

 

[friday]

Sanitation is the first thing that comes to mind. Sanitation is the difference between a bad beer and a good beer.

Yeast could also be a factor, use a liquid yeast.

Water plays an important role but the first two are what I would focus on first.

 

[usfmikeb]

There are many nuances which could be making an impact. This is where keeping good notes during the process is critical, so that you can make changes to each variable one at a time. If there's a local homebrew club, join it and start taking samples to meetings to get feedback.

 

[ZamaMan]

What's your fermentation like? Are you making a appropriate starter or pitching a couple packs of liquid?

 

[houndsbreath]

Remember to look at this as a learning experience and keep brewing to learn more. I saw a hugeimprovement in my beers whe I started brewing 1/2 with tap water and 1/2 with bottled spring water. I think hard water and roasty malts can result in mineral/metallic tastes in beers when the hard water is not diluted enough. Don't quote me on that, it's just my own observation.

 

[rexbanner]

You submitted an infected beer. Why would you do that? I mean, it's one thing to submit a beer just to get some feedback, but what kind of feedback are you going to get on an infected beer?

 

[mmb]

The infection obviously didn't help but they are also judging your beer against others in the flight and to the standard. All beer might have been judged low in that flight or your beer might have had major problems. But always submit your best work.

Usually I submitted the same batch to more than one event to get some other judges opinions of the beer. Now I save the money and just drink it with friends. Win your first ribbon and then you can "retire" as a award winning brewer.

 

[Jawbox0]

Don't knock the dry, a properly rehydrated dry yeast is going to make a good beer as long as it is appropriate for the style. I doubt that's where metallic & diaper aromas are coming from, especially given that there were signs of infection already.

My suggestion is to throw out these results, because you already knew the batch was infected. That infection isn't going to just stay at the top, it's permeated your beer, and is probably detectable by a good nose, or at warmer temperatures. You might not smell it chilled, but upon warming, that aroma might be right out in front.

Instead, concentrate on cleaning and sanitizing that infection. Everything the wort touches from the brew kettle spigot onward are suspect. Replace hoses... scrub, sanitize, scrub, and sanitize more. Take apart spigots, joints, get in every nook. Look for scratches. If you're using any disposable tubing or fermenters, replace them before the next one. Brett is a tough infection to clean up.

 

[jmf143]

I've never read "baby diaper" as an aromatic attribute on Beer Advocate or Rate Beer.

 

[Seven]

Maybe it's just me but it seems odd to expect rave reviews when submitting an infected beer.

Did you inform the judges it was infected before they tasted it?

 

[Homercidal]

Shake it off. Try again.

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

A local bar? I would wager the judges were not JUDGES but the bar owners or random guys picked?

 

[ErieShores]

Respectfully, you submitted a beer with a possible infection and you are disappointed in the results?

 

[dcHokie]

When you do get critical, but honest feedback about off flavors and aromas detected by other palettes it is useful to know the typical root cause of the issue.

There are other sources for this, but I think it can be helpful to refer to an 'off flavor' key. This can help you reverse-engineer and identify issues in your brewing processes. The more you brew, the more you can dial it in.

http://morebeer.com/content/homebrew-off-flavors

 

[inkman15]

Thanks for all the replies. To answer a few questions:

• We always use bottled spring water
• I used Wyeast liquid yeast (Denny's Favorite 1450, specifically)
• I'm pretty good with sanitation. I think the infection came about because the fermenter was previously used as a secondary with 4 pounds of blackberries. I've replaced all plastic equipment that was associated with the infected batch.

I know it was foolish to submit an infected beer but it was just hard to bow out of my first competition after getting so excited for it and spending so much time preparing.

 

[badhabit]

Call me a prude but I learned the hard way and now only enter competitions if the Judges are BJCP certified. That way you can count on a clear and specific evaluation and information that you can learn from and do something with, not just someones beer taste opinion. I can get folks opinion of what they like every time I serve a brew to someone. I appreciate that information but It is not the same as a judges score sheet at a competition.

 

[Airborneguy]

Was this the Cloverleaf competition?

 

[Airborneguy]

Call me a prude but I learned the hard way and now only enter competitions if the Judges are BJCP certified...

I agree with your post in cases where you are looking for an evaluation of your recipe/process. But, I've found that the best prizes are in "best of show" style competitions. We just had a local one with a top prize of $1000.

 

[Yooper]

Actually, 20 isn't THAT bad of a score, believe it or not. In many BJCP competitions, the best (winning) beers score 35-37, with most of the good beers falling 27-34.

Here's a chart of what the scores mean:

Outstanding: 45-50
Excellent: 38-44
Very Good: 30-37
Good: 21-29
Fair: 14-20
Problematic: 0-13

When I've judged in the past, the lowest score we were "allowed" to give was 13. Those were the obviously infected, no redeeming quality, rotten beers. Anything 18 or above isn't really that bad, as there is still something worth judging there.

 

[datamike]

If the judges were BJCP certified, the "baby diaper" description was probably spot-on. This is a common description of beers with an Enteric infection.

Regardless, you submitted an admittedly infected beer, and you received poor scores. I am not sure why you are surprised. The score sheets are (should be) filled out without regard to other beers in the flight. They're scored against the style guidelines only. (assuming a BJCP-sanctioned event, and not including mini-BOS, BOS)

You've also only been brewing for 10 months. It's somewhat unrealistic to assume your beer is going to be in the > 35+ range. You may get lucky right off the bat, but the guys who are winning medals over and over typically have years, if not decades of experience.

I've been brewing for 22+ years. Years ago, the beers that received medals were the least flawed - minor infections, off-flavors, carb problems. At today's popular comps, it's common to have entire flights without any technical issues, and the winners are based solely on how closely they match the style guidelines.

Treat this as a learning experience and move on. Make your next beer even better and keep entering. Enter in multiple comps for a thorough understanding of what other knowledgeable judges think of your beer. Also consider becoming a BJCP judge yourself. You'll learn a ton in a short period of time. Also note that most of the serial comp winners are judges.....

Michael
BJCP National

Call me a prude but I learned the hard way and now only enter competitions if the Judges are BJCP certified. That way you can count on a clear and specific evaluation and information that you can learn from and do something with, not just someones beer taste opinion. I can get folks opinion of what they like every time I serve a brew to someone. I appreciate that information but It is not the same as a judges score sheet at a competition.

 

[BamaRooster]

subscribing

 

[bottlebomber]

We just had a local one with a top prize of $1000.

*whistle*... I need to get in on some of that. That's free homebrew for a year.

 

[inkman15]

@Airborneguy - yes, this was at Cloverleaf! Did you compete too? Were you one of the winners?

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and thoughts. I'll chalk this one up to stupidly submitting an infected beer. I never expected to win at all. I just did this for fun and so I could get honest, unbiased feedback on my beer. I feel like everyone I know is inclined to tell me that they like my beer, and that's not a good thing. Moving forward, I'm definitely going to only submit something that I'm confident is without major flaws.

 

[Airborneguy]

No, but I was going to. I'm working on my MBA there, my wife is from Roseland so we go there a lot. I had to back out because I agreed to participate in two other events and couldn't brew enough for all of them. If they do it next year, I will enter for sure.

 

[inkman15]

No, but I was going to. I'm working on my MBA there, my wife is from Roseland so we go there a lot. I had to back out because I agreed to participate in two other events and couldn't brew enough for all of them. If they do it next year, I will enter for sure.

Yeah, Cloverleaf is my favorite place around here. I'm working on my second PhD right now. Hoping they hold this event annually.

 

[Airborneguy]

I just realized I meant to say PhD. I did the MBA when I first met her. Do they give you a new list for your second Phd or is that just something you're doing for yourself?

 

[inkman15]

I just realized I meant to say PhD. I did the MBA when I first met her. Do they give you a new list for your second Phd or is that just something you're doing for yourself?

They give you the same list for the PhD, but since they're all seasonals, you're always drinking something different. If you complete a 2nd one, you get a sweatshirt and if you complete a 3rd, you get to drink out of these big white beer steins they have. Who needs to save money, anyway?

 

[Zamial]

The deception stout is a FANTASTIC stout however, it is not a "standard stout" by any description. Judges have to judge your beer against a format. Because this was the case you got "dinged". This does not even come close to covering the infected entry. When you add all this up you get a score of 20...seems fair to me.

 

[inkman15]

The deception stout is a FANTASTIC stout however, it is not a "standard stout" by any description. Judges have to judge your beer against a format. Because this was the case you got "dinged". This does not even come close to covering the infected entry. When you add all this up you get a score of 20...seems fair to me.

That's a good point and something I didn't consider when entering. It's definitely a unique stout. Much to learn yet...