Everything worked fine for a couple years and all of a sudden my elements are always at 100% power output even though the PIDs are telling the elements to turn off, i.e., the out1 light blinks when it's close to temp and turns off when the temp is reached. It's doing this with two PIDs and recently I replaced both SSRs because they both showed signed of heat damage (melting). I wired them the same way as the old ones. Is it possible the new SSRs are not working? How can I test them? One of the replacement SSRs has an indicator light on it and it bliks with the PID out1 light but still 100% power output.
Elements always at 100% power???
- Thread starter baer19d
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I may have answered my own question. When I disconnect the input wires to the SSRs the SSRs are still energized. When I recently replaced the SSRs it was with two that I had lying around. Maybe they were both bad which is why they were not used.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Were they Foteks? Chances are strong the ssrs are the issue then.
processhead
Well-Known Member
Now would be the perfect time to throw all four of them away.
Life is complicated enough without having bad or suspect parts laying around to add to the confusion.
Do yourself a favor a buy a quality brand like Crydom or Opto-22 SSRs. Even the used ones are better than a lot of the crap out there.
Life is complicated enough without having bad or suspect parts laying around to add to the confusion.
Do yourself a favor a buy a quality brand like Crydom or Opto-22 SSRs. Even the used ones are better than a lot of the crap out there.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
I can say almost certainly its the SSR's. Been down that road...Bought 8 cheap ones...all duds. Bought a Crydom and it solved my problems.
I would jump on this...don't always come up for this price new
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-In-Box...284518?hash=item48a3889ca6:g:bVUAAOSwX-pZuX6s
I would jump on this...don't always come up for this price new
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-In-Box...284518?hash=item48a3889ca6:g:bVUAAOSwX-pZuX6s
Crydom FTW. I'm still using the same two I started with in 2009.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
Mine were blinking in sync with the PID and it didn't matter. Full power or no power regardless of power level on the pid
processhead
Well-Known Member
That one requires a 90-280 volt input on the control side. Not really useful with the typical low DC voltage PIDs that most SSRs are used with.
This one would be suitable up to 25 amps load https://www.ebay.com/itm/OPTO-22-12...120981&hash=item4d653cf0bc:g:sEcAAOSwMmlZ4BN3
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
mager brand as well as the mager brand ones rebranded and sold as auberins, ebrew and berme brand ssrs are very good quality, Ive yet to see a report of one failing here yet and they start out at $10 an ssr.... just like this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-SSR-...155293?hash=item1ebcf4715d:g:u88AAOSwiONYPnqL
Ive always been lucky even the old fotek and mypin (same thing) ssrs as well as the cheaper no name dual ssr (this one below)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Solid...510015&hash=item43c251ed00:g:3oEAAOxyzi9SkHCw
have always worked fine for me with cheap $3 heatsinks and a pc fan blowing accross it.. Ive only been brewing with electric for 4 years or so though.
I see many many reports of failures with the generic white ssrs though (fotek clones and like)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-SSR-...155293?hash=item1ebcf4715d:g:u88AAOSwiONYPnqL
Ive always been lucky even the old fotek and mypin (same thing) ssrs as well as the cheaper no name dual ssr (this one below)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Solid...510015&hash=item43c251ed00:g:3oEAAOxyzi9SkHCw
have always worked fine for me with cheap $3 heatsinks and a pc fan blowing accross it.. Ive only been brewing with electric for 4 years or so though.
I see many many reports of failures with the generic white ssrs though (fotek clones and like)
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
thats not a crydom brand (not that it necessarily matters much) but im surprised to see "MADE IN THE USA" on them!
processhead
Well-Known Member
Opto 22 is a quality American brand who's products I have had over 25 years of experience with.
Highly recommended and very reliable.
Had Foteks in a circuit until it failed at a critical time and then replaced them with Opto22s. While its apparent that the Foteks are very easy to construct and counterfeit, one look at the Opto units will tell you that they have much more substantial construction and would be much more complicated to counterfeit. You may never know if a Fotek is real, but I'm pretty sure that an Opto unit will be.
processhead
Well-Known Member
Like new Crydom SSRs, new Opto-22 SSRs command top dollar.
I have been buying both brands used off of ebay for my brewing and meat smoker projects.
Prices for quality brand used SSRs are much more reasonable and I have had no issues or failures over the last 12 years or so.
OPTO 22 Model 240D45 is the model for 240 volt applications up to 45 amps using a DC control signal from 3-32 volts
I have been buying both brands used off of ebay for my brewing and meat smoker projects.
Prices for quality brand used SSRs are much more reasonable and I have had no issues or failures over the last 12 years or so.
OPTO 22 Model 240D45 is the model for 240 volt applications up to 45 amps using a DC control signal from 3-32 volts
Does anybody know who the manufacturer is of the "ElectricBrewSupply" SSRs is? I think I may have a similar problem as the OP and wanted to know if the were rebranded Fotecks.
processhead
Well-Known Member
You could contact them and see if they would share that information.
Here's another good brand at a reasonable price:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teledyne-4...169785&hash=item2a93edde36:g:F38AAOSwJcZWgaE2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Teledyne-4...169785&hash=item2a93edde36:g:F38AAOSwJcZWgaE2
I have had an ebrewsupply SSR fail on.
It amazes me how many people have been by Foteks and yet they get bought by members of this forum. The Fotek brand (real or not, as you will never really know) should be avoided completely. We know for certain that many of these have completely undersized components inside. Would you drive your 4000 lb car over a bridge that said Rated for 2000 lbs? If not, you wouldnt use a Fotek either.
It amazes me how many people have been by Foteks and yet they get bought by members of this forum. The Fotek brand (real or not, as you will never really know) should be avoided completely. We know for certain that many of these have completely undersized components inside. Would you drive your 4000 lb car over a bridge that said Rated for 2000 lbs? If not, you wouldnt use a Fotek either.
processhead
Well-Known Member
SSRs failing shorted seem to be an all to common complaint for brewing panels. Using inferior components, no matter how good of a deal they may seem to be, is false economy.
Considering the cost of failure during a brewing session, I can't understand why anyone would knowingly build or repair a panel with one of these weak links?
If I was buying an assembled panel, I think I would be asking questions about SSRs prior to purchasing.
Considering the cost of failure during a brewing session, I can't understand why anyone would knowingly build or repair a panel with one of these weak links?
If I was buying an assembled panel, I think I would be asking questions about SSRs prior to purchasing.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
If your talking about Ebrew supply? The older white ones he sold were fotek clones. He later switched to the mager ones he has rebranded..
I was looking yesterday and it's amazing how many rebranded ones are made by Mager. There's literally a dozen or more different brands including Kodak and MGR as well as non-branded ones where the sellers just block out the brand name.
processhead
Well-Known Member
How are you determining the manufacturer of the rebranded units?
Are there still some markings of the OEM?
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Was it the older white ones they sold? if so those are the fotek clones just with a different brand sticker on them (and higher price) at least he's good with replacing the stuff when it fails.. Those fake foteks cost as little as half a cent on Alibaba if you buy them bulk... no wonder so many other distributors like mypin and inkbird sell them too. I did get a laugh out of the fact that inkbird doesn't use inkbird SSR in their new pre-built PID boxes but instead use the mager brand ones.
It was indeed white. Which means all four are cheap crap. My decent heatsink probably lets them get by. What color are the current ones?
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Yes by comparing a few of the ones I have as well as the videos and blogs that compare some of them. there are markings on the metal baker plate as well as differences in things like the stickers
With the mager ones they all have the same two sticker layouts as well as a shared model number, cover, led placement and sticker on the side.. It is possible these are made by different manufacturers too but I've yet to see anyone here actually claim one has failed without finding out they miswired them.
also I participated in thread here a while back (couple years ago) about failed ssrs and ebrew disclosed that he bought hei and had them branded from a chines manufaturer and not all Chinese clone manufacturers were the same. He would not disclose where he got them but Ive seen many people complain of failures with them (some in that thread) Shortly after he switched to the mager ones.. The other good indicator that they are fake is when they say made in Taiwan on them but ship from a chinese seller like my foteks did.
here is one of the many people selling them on alibaba.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60460906970.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.pfSuIa
On a related note I'm also fairly sure but not 100% That this is the manufacturer that makes the heating elements ebrew sells.. I have bought 2 tc based elements from this company and these prices ARE real.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...l?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.21.4d14482cRwMRi9
Woops. I was thinking you guys were talking about The Electric Brewery (aka, Kal). I now see you were talking about something else. That SSR picture I posted above has nothing to do with the current discussion. Derp!
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
These are the current ones (im fairly certain they are made by mager) ebrews prices are reasonable on these IMO
https://ebrewsupply.com/collections/ssr-spdt-and-contactors/products/40a-solid-state-relay-ssr-v2
There the same as these and many others..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20DA-SSR-C...d=332410974396&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
https://www.ebay.com/p/24-480v-AC-D...d=261976693232&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
I think that is generally how they fail, which is unfortunate.
I had a string of failed Foteks until I started crimping ring terminals on my 10 gauge THHN wire. That seemed to provide lower resistance and lower heat.
Chris
Well, I ended up ordering two Foteks before I waited on the replies to this post, silly me. Anyway, I figured they would fill the gap until I found some better ones on ebay. I received them on Friday, hooked them up, ran a test, and everything worked fine. I'm brewing today and wouldn't you know it, an hour into it and one of them quit working. Luckily I'm still able to brew but it looks like I need to hurry up and fine better ones.
I'll give that a try. Maybe I can squeeze a little life out of the one that's still working.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
I thought I put up an Ebay link earlier for a Crydom. After endless SSR fails its the only one that hasn't let me down
That one requires AC input so it won't work with my PIDs.
So far I've been using SSRs that are rated for 24-380VAC output since it's a 240V panel but since only one leg of the 240v (120V) runs to the SSR could I use SSR's rated for 120V output? if so that would make sourcing good ones easier.
So, I'm hearing you say that one leg (i.e., L1) goes to the SSR. If that circuit, after the SSR, ultimately returns to L2, then you need 240VAC. If that leg returns to the neutral, 120VAC is fine. When I say returns, I mean after your heating element.
Then I need 240V. L1 goes to the SSR and L2 goes to a coil relay.
They both go to the element.
They both go to the element.
Output should be rated for 40A at 480V AC. This is a very commonly available size. 25A at 250V AC theoretically will work, but your service life is more likely to be limited, since you would be running close to the max rating. Using over rated components is a common design practice, known as derating the components. The control inputs should be spec'ed as 3 - 32V DC.
Brew on
Crydom D2440 or D2450
If anyone is interested, I opened my panel that I bought from Kal. These were the SSR's that were inside and that they currently use.
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30
John
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30
John
