Element enclosure leaking

[stever1000]

I have a weldless diy hot pod enclosure, see picture below.

On the inside of the kettle I have a nut and o-ring, and on the outside is the kettle wall, o-ring, the enclosure base (which acts like a big washer), then the heating element.

The hole in the kettle is the right size, and I had to wiggle/screw the elements threads through to get it to go in all the way, then I hand tightened as much as I could, then a bit tighter with vicegrip pliers (but not too tight because the nut is so big, and I dont want to squeeze the o-ring out of position). All o-rings are the orange/silcone type and I used keg lube on the threads

I leak tested it last week with tap water and there were no leaks after 2 hours and 15gallons of water (i.e. lots of pressure)

I tuned my PID tonight with 8 gallons of water, and with the hot water (160F) the enclosure leaked around the base of the element head

I used a step-bit to drill the hole, but I went slowly so I think the hole is round as possible

How can I seal it up?

-Buy a proper wrench and tighten the nut more?
-Use teflon tape on the threads?
-?

 

[DarkStarNJ]

Snug it up some more. That looks like too big of a gab to be sealing. I had to crank it pretty tight to solve my leaks. Although My hole was a bit too big so my experience may not be typical.

 

[augiedoggy]

I only used one oring one the inside followed by teflon tap on the threads of the element... no leaks in well over a years use now.

why use 2 orings? if the liquid is getting by the one on the inside of the kettle then what good is it even doing?

 

[Radboud]

Put loads of teflontape on the threads towards the end (nut side) of the element where it touches the enclosure to create a seal. I had the same issue with the Brewpi enclosure (this one). Worked for me.

 

[BigFloppy]

lose the outside o-ring

buy/borrow a heater element wrench, they're cheap and tighten from the outside making sure that 2 of the flat sides of your inside nut are vertical. When you do tighten it, you'll notice that the walls of your kettle will flatten effectively taking on the shape of the hot-pod and within about 1/2" outside of that, return to the regular rounded shape of the kettle

 

[MNBucky]

I just did this same install last week. Agree with the others: lose the outside o-ring and add 6 turns of teflon tape. Also, it looks like your element is so low that you can't spin the element itself to screw it in. In the hot pot directions it says, in that situation, to make sure you use keg lube or vaseline to lube the crap out of your inside (only) o-ring and the nut itself. This will make it so when you hold the element still and screw on the nut it will not tear the o-ring. I was able to prevent the element from spinning with my hand while doing this.

Also, make sure your inside locknut is facing the correct way. The o-ring nestles in there nicely on either side of the nut, but on one side it actually ends up being recessed too much to seal against the kettle wall. It should stick out past the locknut as it's resting in the groove. I actually picked the wrong locknut side and got leaks on my install and had to re-do

If that doesn't work you should call Bobby at brewhardware and do whatever he says. He is the weldless master. The first thing he will probably ask is why you didn't just follow the directions though

 

[stever1000]

thanks for the replies everyone!
I thought having two o-rings would create a better seal (double the seal??) but I guess it sounds like Im doing the opposite. I will remove the outer o-ring and apply a few wraps of teflon tape as well, just to be sure.

I just did this same install last week. Agree with the others: lose the outside o-ring and add 6 turns of teflon tape. Also, it looks like your element is so low that you can't spin the element itself to screw it in. In the hot pot directions it says, in that situation, to make sure you use keg lube or vaseline to lube the crap out of your inside (only) o-ring and the nut itself. This will make it so when you hold the element still and screw on the nut it will not tear the o-ring. I was able to prevent the element from spinning with my hand while doing this.

Also, make sure your inside locknut is facing the correct way. The o-ring nestles in there nicely on either side of the nut, but on one side it actually ends up being recessed too much to seal against the kettle wall. It should stick out past the locknut as it's resting in the groove. I actually picked the wrong locknut side and got leaks on my install and had to re-do

If that doesn't work you should call Bobby at brewhardware and do whatever he says. He is the weldless master. The first thing he will probably ask is why you didn't just follow the directions though

My locknut doesn't have the recessed groove on one face, its flat on both ends. But I will see if one is different than the other.

I didn't use Bobby's enclosure, I made my own. BUT I should have looked at his installation instructions since they are very similar...

Lose the outside o-ring

buy/borrow a heater element wrench, they're cheap and tighten from the outside making sure that 2 of the flat sides of your inside nut are vertical. When you do tighten it, you'll notice that the walls of your kettle will flatten effectively taking on the shape of the hot-pod and within about 1/2" outside of that, return to the regular rounded shape of the kettle

Thanks, I will tighten it with a proper wrench and make sure 2 sides of the inside nut are vertical

 

[stever1000]

I bought an adjustable wrench for the nut, and the element wrench. I also removed the outer o-ring and tried tightening it up tonight.

My new problem is that as I tighten the nut, the oring squeezes out one side of the nut. I have a ton of keg lube on both the oring and nut. Can I simply back it off a small amount and it will seal properly? Or how do I go about avoiding the oring from squeezing out?

The nut doesn't have a recess for the oring, and I don't want to buy another nut ($$$).

Thanks in advance!

 

[jddevinn]

Get a nut with a built in recessed grove or get a washer that fits around the o-ring to stop it from expanding.

 

[stever1000]

Get a nut with a built in recessed grove or get a washer that fits around the o-ring to stop it from expanding.

To avoid purchasing anything else, is there a third thing I could do?
I wasn't able to find the nut with recessed groove or a large enough washer locally...

 

[augiedoggy]

I bought an adjustable wrench for the nut, and the element wrench. I also removed the outer o-ring and tried tightening it up tonight.

My new problem is that as I tighten the nut, the oring squeezes out one side of the nut. I have a ton of keg lube on both the oring and nut. Can I simply back it off a small amount and it will seal properly? Or how do I go about avoiding the oring from squeezing out?

The nut doesn't have a recess for the oring, and I don't want to buy another nut ($$$).

Thanks in advance!

The correct nut to solve your problem from bargain fittings is $6.65 or $7.50 with a new oring... shipping is a flat $5 though so I suggest buying whatever other odds and ends your delaying on buys but will eventually give in and do so..

http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_38&product_id=95

 

[jddevinn]

To avoid purchasing anything else, is there a third thing I could do?
I wasn't able to find the nut with recessed groove or a large enough washer locally...

Every weldless fitting that I have seen has a washer or recessed face to stop the o ring from distorting.

Assuming you used a standard element you can get a washer from Amazon or Mcmaster for a couple bucks.

 

[stever1000]

The issue is living in Canada and those parts not being readily available

 

[jddevinn]

Hmmm Ontario Keg has the nut but no washer. Maybe try supergluing the o ring into place?

 

[stever1000]

Yeah and the nut they have has no groove (that's where I bought my original nut from...)

I could try the superglue but that would be difficult with the keg lube

 

[jddevinn]

no need for the keg lube. If the O ring is in place it's the seal. I'd put it on the outside of the kettle if you use the glue.

 

[stever1000]

no need for the keg lube. If the O ring is in place it's the seal. I'd put it on the outside of the kettle if you use the glue.

I like the idea having it on the outside, that way I can tighten the hell out of the nut without worrying about twisting and squeezing the oring inside

Seems like the best solution?

 

[jddevinn]

All my o rings are on the outside, you still have to worry about it popping out of place though.

 

[augiedoggy]

I like the idea having it on the outside, that way I can tighten the hell out of the nut without worrying about twisting and squeezing the oring inside

Seems like the best solution?

normally you hold the nut in place and turn the element with these...

 

[stever1000]

normally you hold the nut in place and turn the element with these...

My element is a fold back and I installed it very near the bottom so I can't turn it without it hitting the bottom of the kettle

 

[augiedoggy]

My element is a fold back and I installed it very near the bottom so I can't turn it without it hitting the bottom of the kettle

I made the same mistake in my boil kettle.. I was able to use the nut with the groove on the inside with the oring which allows a good ground on the outside between the kettle and hotpod. The larger surface area of the hotpod to make good contact and prevent the hotpod from wiggling around if bumped.

 

[Bobby_M]

I can appreciate the DIY spirit and I realize shipping to Canada is a little more expensive, but how much time and effort would you have saved if you just bought my setup? I've already toiled with these issues and found the right parts and install process that doesn't leak the first time. You're not just paying for the parts of course because as you've found, you can find them a bit cheaper from various sources. I put a full page instruction sheet together and then I take emails and calls from people who neglect to read them and I still walk them through the install over the phone.

 

[stever1000]

I can appreciate the DIY spirit and I realize shipping to Canada is a little more expensive, but how much time and effort would you have saved if you just bought my setup? I've already toiled with these issues and found the right parts and install process that doesn't leak the first time. You're not just paying for the parts of course because as you've found, you can find them a bit cheaper from various sources. I put a full page instruction sheet together and then I take emails and calls from people who neglect to read them and I still walk them through the install over the phone.

I appreciate your efforts and time you have spent perfecting your setup. However, the price of the hotpod + shipping is $41.50 USD or approximately $56 using my credit card exchange rate in Canadian dollars. I actually would have perferred your setup, but with the horrible exchange rate, it was not possible. I got all the parts for less than $15 canadian (I didn't realize the proper sized cord grip was $8 here), and I'm only delaying myself brewing time.

I hope one day I will be able to order from you, when the exchange rate is better and I have a US mail box, but until then, I am stuck toiling with issues like this.

 

[Bobby_M]

I wish I had cheaper shipping options to Canada. The USPS raised the rates badly this year.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If you are DIY on a tight budget, I would put a gasket, like the ones supplied with water heater elements, the hard rubber type on the element outside the kettle as it is designed to be installed in a hot water heater, then wrap the live wires, element terminal as well as the wire insulation in quality 3M rubber self vulcanizing tape similar to what the power company used on the service coming into your house.

These elements are designed to seal with a gasket on element flange outside the vessel.

Ghetto yes, but oh that high quality rubber tape is spectacular. I have used it on other projects and observed electricians using it for all sorts of applications.

Good luck w the leaks.

 

[stever1000]

So the solution ended using a large homemade washer on the outside of the kettle to prevent the oring from squishing as I tightened it. After doing this it still leaked a tiny amount during testing, so I used some food grade silicone around the enclosure/element face to prevent any water from seeping in. After operating for 4 hours (heating, mashing, boiling, cooling) I had zero water in the enclosure! Woohoo!