Electrical issue on brew day....

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

When you get to 10 degrees below your set temperature, start autotune by setting At=2. If you set AT=1, there's another step to actually start the autotune. Just set At=2. I'm guessing you had it set to 1.

I'll give this a try tonight. I don't recall if I set it to 1 or 2 when I did the last autotune.
If it runs over I'll try the suggestion by processhead above too.

I'll review the electric brewery info as well.

Thanks everyone!

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

I reran the autotune using AT=2. Set the temp to 154 started the autotune at 144. The autotune stopped as toon as the temp hit 154. The temp continued to rise until it hit 170. I added cold water, cooled it down to 140ish, let the temp rise again. It shot past 154, again turned it off at 170.

The electric brewery info states
"Generally speaking most HERMS and BIAB (Brew in a Bag) setups should work fine with the following values:"

• P = 40
• I = 350
• D = 2

For the hell of it, I used the numbers above (which were WAY off what the AT had programed in).
The temperature still shot past the 154 mark.

So, am I in the market for a new controller?

 

[processhead]

I reran the autotune using AT=2. Set the temp to 154 started the autotune at 144. The autotune stopped as toon as the temp hit 154. The temp continued to rise until it hit 170. I added cold water, cooled it down to 140ish, let the temp rise again. It shot past 154, again turned it off at 170.

The electric brewery info states
"Generally speaking most HERMS and BIAB (Brew in a Bag) setups should work fine with the following values:"

• P = 40
• I = 350
• D = 2

For the hell of it, I used the numbers above (which were WAY off what the AT had programed in).
The temperature still shot past the 154 mark.

So, am I in the market for a new controller?

I know this should be obvious, but the controller is not in manual mode, is it?

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

While I would be embarrassed, I which it was that. I checked last night. It was not set to manual mode.

 

[Zinge]

This sounds to me like a bad SSR, disconnect the wire from pin 7 on the back of your PID, fire it up and see if it heats up.

 

[processhead]

This sounds to me like a bad SSR, disconnect the wire from pin 7 on the back of your PID, fire it up and see if it heats up.

This is probably the next step to take. I think you have ruled out all the controller related stuff that I can think of.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

I disconnected the wire from pin7 fired it up and it continued to heat the water.
So we’re all on the same page the wire from pin7 runs up to my heat sink, from the heat sink back to pin8.

 

[Zinge]

Pins 7&8 are the DC output from the PID to turn the SSR on. When you say attached to the heat sink, I assume you mean something similar to this:

That's the SSR on top of the heat sink. These SSRs will fail in the "ON" state and that would be why the water is heating when it's disconnected.

 

[processhead]

I disconnected the wire from pin7 fired it up and it continued to heat the water.
So we’re all on the same page the wire from pin7 runs up to my heat sink, from the heat sink back to pin8.

That wire going to the heat sink you disconnected was the control signal that tells the SSR to turn on and off. If that signal is disconnected and the heating element is still stuck on, then the SSR is shorted/bad.

 

[bracconiere]

couldn't be celsius?

just a thought....feel free to ignore me

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

That wire going to the heat sink you disconnected was the control signal that tells the SSR to turn on and off. If that signal is disconnected and the heating element is still stuck on, then the SSR is shorted/bad.

Seems to be the case. I'll order a new one.

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

-Ron

 

[passedpawn]

Seems to be the case. I'll order a new one.

Thanks to everyone for all the input.

-Ron

Can you post a photo of the label of your SSR. There a lot of cheap counterfeit ones out there, might be good to identify this before you buy another one.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Can you post a photo of the label of your SSR. There a lot of cheap counterfeit ones out there, might be good to identify this before you buy another one.

Read this after I placed my order.
This just arrived today. I’ll take a picture if my old one when I replace it. How can you identify a counterfeit SSR?

 

[Blazinlow86]

If your ssr says fotek it's pretty safe to assume it's a fake. If you bought from auber you will be ok. Cheers

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Yeah. This one looks like it came from Alpharetta GA. Hope this does the trick.

 

[passedpawn]

Read this after I placed my order.
This just arrived today. I’ll take a picture if my old one when I replace it. How can you identify a counterfeit SSR?

That's a PID, not an SSR.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

That's a PID, not an SSR.

Yeah, and that's why I was hesitant to go all electric. I don't now enough about it, but I wanted to brew in doors.

So now at this point I've replaced the 30AMP 2 pole relay (which I thought was the SSR) and my PID and I'm still having the same issue.

Just ordered an SSR tonight.

From my trial and error(s), I've learned the SSR is what does the switching on and off of the element and now I actually know which part that is. That has to be the faulty part here in this mess. Right? It seems like my element turns on, but never turns off.

So now I have a spare PID and a better understanding of how the control panel is wired and how it works. Not all bad.

 

[processhead]

The benefits of electric brewing aren't limited to just to technical people. You are learning how things work and how to maintain your own system.
Don't feel like you need to be an EE to enjoy the benefits. Once you get your rig fixed you will be back to what this is all about, making beer!

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

To close out this thread......I replaced the Solid State Relay tonight and ran an auto tune.
Problem solved!

I guess the SSR was stuck closed, so the power was not turning off to the heating element.

I learned a lot from this issue. Feeling more comfortable with what's going on in the control panel.

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.

-Ron

 

[stlbeer]

There you go! Make sure you have an extra SSR in your parts bin so you don't have to wait when the next one gets stuck.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Is this a typical issue to have? What is the life expectancy of an SSR?

 

[doug293cz]

Is this a typical issue to have? What is the life expectancy of an SSR?

Yes, it's common with Fotek, and other cheaply constructed (i.e. underrated components) SSR's. High quality SSR's are very reliable.

Brew on

 

[golfindia]

Is this a typical issue to have? What is the life expectancy of an SSR?

And away we go....

95% of DIY homebrewers use $hitty heat sinks and horrible system designs. It's not the SSR, it's the user.

Don't let them get hot, they last a long time.

 

[doug293cz]

And away we go....

95% of DIY homebrewers use $hitty heat sinks and horrible system designs. It's not the SSR, it's the user.

Don't let them get hot, they last a long time.

Yeah, I should have mentioned that as well. Both unreliable SSR's and poor cooling designs are an issue with SSR failures.

@WolfgangVonFrankenStein , can you post some pics of how your SSR is mounted (showing various angles of both your SSR and heatsink.) We should be able to determine design weaknesses, if there are any.

Brew on

 

[golfindia]

I quit buying cheap SSRs only because a lot of them don't work at the low end of their voltage range (3.3v RPi GPIO). Mager/auber ones do...

 

[processhead]

I think you can find a lot of inexpensive panel components that give decent performance at a relatively low cost.
Cheap SSRs DO NOT happen to be one of those components.

 

[passedpawn]

Yes, it's common with Fotek, and other cheaply constructed (i.e. underrated components) SSR's. High quality SSR's are very reliable.

Brew on

I have Crydom SSRs that I've been using for 10+ years. Yea, they cost more. look for D2425 for a single 240V 25A device.

 

[processhead]

Crydom and Opto-22 are two trusted brands that are widely used in industry.
When I find them priced right, I will buy them up whenever I see new or even used/tested ones for sale.

 

[stlbeer]

I have Crydom SSRs that I've been using for 10+ years. Yea, they cost more. look for D2425 for a single 240V 25A device.

Crydom for the WIN! The used ones I have have lasted a very long time. 40amp SSRs on a 23amp circuit.

 

[passedpawn]

Crydom for the WIN! The used ones I have have lasted a very long time. 40amp SSRs on a 23amp circuit.

I actually prefer (and have used) the "D" version of their SSRs. For example, the D2425D. These are dual SSRs. I like to turn off both load legs when driving 240A elements, and a single one of these SSRs will do that (though, double the heat).