electrical enclosure: metal vs plastic box

[Gabrew]

I'm looking into buying an electrical enclosure for my electric herms setup. Plastic (polyester, pvc, etc...) are much cheaper on both price and shipping.

Are there any disadvantages to using plastic electrical enclosure for setting up PIDs, SSRs, heatsinks, etc....? Any problems with heat buid up?

I've been looking into this: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

Thanks!

Gab

 

[ale_mongrel]

i clicked the e-bay link and it says the item has been removed. As long as you stay within its ratings, wire-fill, aperage , voltage ect and its been listed by underwriters labrotories (ul) or the canadian standards asscociation (csa) you should be good to go

 

[Gabrew]

great thanks for the advice!!!

heres another try at the link:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ALLIED-MOULDED-E...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item1c110eb3e9

 

[rianrt]

this was the guy i got my enclosure from on ebay. figured i would post it here instead. they don't have it listed but i would check just in case. hope you make out. i went with metal. but looking back. i could of finished alot faster with plastic. home depot has the other box i was going to get. depending on what you have planned people use plastic tool boxes with success.


http://stores.ebay.com/WEAVER-ELECTRIC

 

[Gabrew]

they dont have anything for now but i'll definately keep an eye out!

Thansk!

 

[rianrt]

not sure if you have home depot up there. what are you planning on?

Carlon 12 In. x 12 In. x 6 In., Gray, Junction Box

Model # E989R-UPC
Store SKU # 693878


http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[Gabrew]

yeah...the ones in canada dont have this model...all they offer is this 8x8 and ideally I need 14x14

Thanks again for the info!

 

[Sizz]

I bought a waterproof 12"x12"x7" polycarbonate enclosure from McMaster for $110. It was much stronger than I expected. The transparent cover is nice for watching the blinking LEDs on the SSRs and a useful diagnostic\sanity check.

 

[brrman]

I used the grey project box from Lowes...

 

[Gabrew]

thanks everyone for your input...I went with the polyester electrical enclosure previously posted.

Now lets shop for some PIDs, SSRs, RTDs, etc...

Thanks!

 

[rianrt]

so what are you planning as far as a circuit? 50 or 30amp? ssr for 1 or both legs?

 

[Gabrew]

thats the part where i'm not so sure.

I've been following this thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-brewery-plans-need-help-183775/) and am planning on doing something quite similar. I want to have a temp probe in each of the three vessels, but will only need to control that in the HLT and BK. Thus, really only needing two PID controllers, but will probably go with three in case of future changes.

 

[bblack7489]

I went back and forth on the topic, but I decided on a metal enclosure because I was worried about sinking heat out of it. It turned out that I cut a hole in it anyway so that my relays aren't actually attached to my box; however, at the very least a metal enclosure will let you sink heat through the box without having to hack it apart.

As a bit of background, I have 5 SSRs in my box with three control boards (essentially home made boards for closed loop control using a PIC16x and thermocouple). Two of the SSRs are controlling heating elements with high current ant the other three are controlling pumps and a mixer.

If you have a metal box, you can sink heat through its structure without putting in a fan. If you want to cut a hole and use a gasket (like I ended up doing), then it doesn't really matter what type of box you use.

 

[rianrt]

i built that exact same thing from P-J. works pretty sweet. i have 2 pids and 2 thermocouplers. thinking of adding a temp probe on the output of the herms coil. i have 1 in the hlt and the other is in the bk.

 

[Gabrew]

nice!

have you used dual pole SSRs or simple SSRs?

I cant seem to be able to find any of those dual SSRs...

 

[rianrt]

i used the cheap ssrs from ebay. can't beat the price. i didn't see the reason for the ssrd.

 

[Gabrew]

i think im going that route as well.

You think you could share your parts list...i'm on the verge of ordering my stuff...just want to make sure i don't miss out on anything...

Thanks!

 

[rianrt]

i dont have a parts list. but i will try to help. what are you ready to order? switches etc? i can look around for receipts but are you thinking panel or kettles first. i ordered all my ss parts pretty much from murrayequipment. except for ss hose barbs. those i got from ebay.

 

[Gabrew]

Actually, here's my build so far: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/eherms-build-one-more-amongst-many-191688/

My kegs are pretty much done and the electrical enclosure is on its way.

Now I'm looking for the parts that will make-up the control panel:
PID: which type, i've noticed that there are various types of PIDs...does this really matter?
RTDs: stainless steel and water proof (will probably go with Auber)
SSR: will probably go with Ebay
Switches: selector switches

Much of my confusion comes from the plan itself, I am unsure of how many SSRs I need, what parts (contactor, fuses, types of wires...etc)

 

[rianrt]

This is what I used:

(2) pids syl-2352. A lot of people use this. Only reason I did. 1 for hlt, 1 for bk.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=3

(2) tc’s. used because they were cheaper and work fine.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=108
if I had to do it over would of gotten these. No need for bushing ½->1/4

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=165

(2) ssrs. I did 1 per element. I use an element kill switch. So I figure I am covered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290457290327&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

(6) switches. (2) pids, (2) elements and (2) pumps. Cheaper then blue. You linked non lit switches from ebay. They are way cheaper if you don’t care.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...uminated_-a-_Non-Illuminated/LED/GCX3241-120L

(2) contactors. 1 for each element.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=130

(2) circuit breakers. 1 for each element

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...2_Series)/B_Curve_(6A-63A,_WMZS2Bxx)/WMZS2B25

(2) circuit breakers. 1 for each pump.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...1_Series)/B_Curve_(6A-63A,_WMZS1Bxx)/WMZS1B20

if I had to do it over again. I would of used 15amp. They were out of stock.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...1_Series)/B_Curve_(6A-63A,_WMZS1Bxx)/WMZS1B15

(1) Pk of din rail to mount circuit breakers. I have a ton left. How much does it cost to ship to Canada? I used 6-8” out of 6’.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...Component_Type)/Rails_-a-_Brackets/DN-R35S1-2

(1) Power distribution block. Makes wiring easier. 50amp cord in.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...,_UL_Recognized,_175A-760A_(PB_Series)/PB1043

(1) Ground bar. Need to ground elements and outlets.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

(2) outlets. because i used 20amp breakers.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

as far as wire. I used 10awg for the 240v. 10awg everything 25amp. I used 12awg on everything else. Switches, pids, etc. depending on the size of you box is how much wire I would buy. I bought 10’ of 10awg wire, 6’ of 12awg green , 10’ of 12awg white and red. (red for hot, white for neutral and green for ground) . I used thhn wire. It is stranded. If you look close to the pics I posted. I ran out of red.
Let me know if this helps.

 

[Gabrew]

WOW...how much do I owe you?!?!

Tremendously helpful!

questions:
-why would you go with 15amp breaker instead of 20amp?
-for the contactor: why the 120V instead of the 240V...if the elements are running on 240?
-for the switches: are the one I posted adequate for this setup...in terms of specs?
-for the pumps and elements...is it simpler to install outlets for each or directly wire them to the circuit?

Thanks!!!!!

 

[rianrt]

i was getting tired last night. i missed a few parts that i used. i used 12awg because it is rated for 20amps. if you went to 15 amp you could run 14awg. it depends on the enclosure and how much room you got. pumps only run a few amps. so anything you use is pretty much overkill. 15 or 20 wise. if you don't mind the extra couple dollars. i would use 20amp. just incase you ever change anything. like a heatstick or anything else. all you would have to do is get a smaller contactor (auber has 25amp 1's) and the one outlet you were using for a pump now can control a 2kw heatstick. just options. those switches are only good to 10amp i believe. but i will post the couple other things i used in a few.
rian

 

[rianrt]

(1) 50 amp power outlet

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...-_-202066681-_-N&locStoreNum=4113&marketID=68

(1) 50 amp 4 wire range cord

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

(2) 30 amp 240v outlets for elements

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

(2) 3 prong 30 amp cords for elements

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

(2) panel mount connectors. 1 for each tc

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=119

(1) type k tc cord. I used this and cut it to wire the panel connectors instead of cutting the 6’ ones.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=2

(2) fuse holders for pids

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102782

(1) pk of fuses for pids. I used 1/2 amp

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=270-1003&origkw=270-1003&sr=1

 

[Gabrew]

woahhh, this is great!

 

[rianrt]

that was a bit of doing. some of the links i used no longer work so i had to search. did that help your confusion? if you were closer i would build it for you. took no time at all. start with laying it out. then 240v stuff. then everything else is easier. i also bought the 22.5 hole punch from automation direct. not sure what you were going to do.

 

[Gabrew]

you definately helped clarify my confusion and answer most of my questions.

For the contactor, why did you choose the 120v option as opposted to the 240v...

 

[rianrt]

no real reason. 120 was easier to wire. if you wire it like i did. 1 post from the neutral dist block goes to 1 side of the contactor to the other contactor. and run the hots coming from the element switches. makes sense?

 

[Gabrew]

Hey rianrt,

Got another question for you...

I've received my three PIDs, and am about to order the stuff required from automationdirecte (switches, breakers etc...). The third PID will not control anthing, simply be used as a temp reader. Because of this third addition, do I need to order an extra 25amp circuit breaker?

Thanks

 

[rianrt]

if you are just using the 3rd pid for temp and not an element. i would say no. you would just need to get another radioshack fuse. is that what you are planning? you can only run 2 elements with the 50amp.