Electric vs. propane

[sictransit701]

I am thinking about switching over to electric. What are some of the pros and cons?
I am kind of hesitant. I’ve had a fire in my electric stove at home. The element burned out. Scary. I would need an electrician to install a 240v outlet in the kitchen.
A few questions:
Can a pot with an element be plugged to make it propane useable as well as electric?
Do I need a controller for the element?
How big of a risk is getting shocked?

 

[NewJersey]

I don't think brewing in the kitchen will ever be ideal, but electric is the BEST.
I went from propane to natural gas and now finally 240v electric.
I prefer electric by a WIDE margin.
Perfect mash temp holding and superfast to boil. Quiet as can be. (I have the SS brewtech 240v 5000 watt setup)

 

[Dland]

Electrics cost a lot less to run than propane, once your hooked up anyway. Faster response leads to less chance of boilover & no need for Fermcap S. Electric is quieter, and neater, no more black smudge on kettle bottoms. If brewing indoors, big propane burners are a carbon monoxide risk

There is no reason you could not still use pot for propane if you add a tri clamp ferule for heat element. I converted my existing gas fired kettles, and could still use for propane if needed for some reason.

 

[kh54s10]

There is a variety of electric options. I went with A Unibrau for it's smaller footprint, 110V, added a second element and brew in my kitchen. I have to work out some steam removal. You don't have to have 240v. You will need some type of controller. (or at least want one) Make sure you are on a GFCI protected circuit.

If you get electric and want to use propane get your kettle with tri clamp ports. They have a fitting that clamps on as a plug. I don't think you will ever want to do that though, unless brewing at a club meeting or such.

IMO, you have a lot less risk of fire with an electric system than you do with a propane one.

Pros:
It costs less than propane
You will never run out in the middle of the boil
You can brew in more comfort. Warm in the winter and cool in the summer

Cons:
Unless you are on a very efficient 240v circuit it will take longer to heat the water.

I'm sure there are other pros and cons but those cover my reasoning for switching.

 

[sictransit701]

I guess a setup in the garage would work best. I’m wanting to upgrade my gear and add pumps. That’s the main reason for the upgrades. Back is thrown out. I really like the simplicity of the two kettle rims system, and it seems like going electric would be best for maintaining mash temps. However, I’m having second thoughts though on the electricity. Can a two kettle rims system be used with propane setup? How do you maintain mash temps?

 

[sictransit701]

Also, can a 110v element bring 7 gallons to a good boil?

 

[mkopec1]

Also, can a 110v element bring 7 gallons to a good boil?

Yes but it will take a while. If you use 110v elements, just use 2, or something like a hot stick to supplement your primary element. Just make sure they are on different circuits.

You could also do the stove top method, with using your stove top as the primary element and heat stick as the secondary.

Most of your mash and brew and robobrew type systems sold in US are 110v, basically 1500w-1800w and people have great results with those. Of course heating up to dough in and then from mash to boil can take upwards of a hour or more, but they do work.

I would still use a GFCI receptacle if youre gonna be doing anything plug-in electric. They are cheap, about $15-$25 and easy to install.

 

[Jag75]

I have the Grainfather and I brew in the kitchen in close proximity to my sink . My wife just knows to stay out at certain times and to work around me. The most I've boiled is 6.5 gallons . Thays to get me 5.5 in the fermenter. It does take a bit to get the temp up. What has cut the time down is I start ramping up to boil temp as soon as I lift the basket and sparge. Electric is the way to go imo . Climate controlled brewing is a no brainer.

 

[mkopec1]

I have the Grainfather and I brew in the kitchen in close proximity to my sink . My wife just knows to stay out at certain times and to work around me. The most I've boiled is 6.5 gallons . Thays to get me 5.5 in the fermenter. It does take a bit to get the temp up. What has cut the time down is I start ramping up to boil temp as soon as I lift the basket and sparge. Electric is the way to go imo . Climate controlled brewing is a no brainer.

Yeah eventually I would like to go this route too. All year round brewing, less stuff to clean, less equipment to store, and cheaper just by the virtue of electricity being cheaper than propane. So even if it takes and extra hour or whatever in your brew day, im sure youre saving it on the back side with one hour less in cleaning and hauling your brew stuff to store it.

 

[Jag75]

Yeah eventually I would like to go this route too. All year round brewing, less stuff to clean, less equipment to store, and cheaper just by the virtue of electricity being cheaper than propane. So even if it takes and extra hour or whatever in your brew day, im sure youre saving it on the back side with one hour less in cleaning and hauling your brew stuff to store it.

I shouldnt complain too much about weather as I'm in kern co California. Cold to me is in the 40's & 50's . It does however get hot in the summer and I definitely dont wanna be outside in the 100's. Yeah those types of systems are great when it comes to footprint.

 

[mkopec1]

Michigan here so we deal with poop weather 5-6 months out of the year, lol.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

When do you typically brew? If it's first thing in the morning as soon as you wake up, then 120v might be a little too slow (depending on how patient you are). If you don't brew right away, then it shouldn't be a problem getting to mash temperature. I use a 120v digiboil, add water the night before, then turn on the heating element when I wake up. By the time I'm ready to brew, it's at mash temperature.

Sure, it takes ~45 minutes to get to mash temperature, but it's completely hands-off. With propane, I wouldn't start the flame until I was 100% committed to brewing and I'd have to watch it like a hawk as I got close to mash temp.

 

[Deadalus]

My back very much appreciates the electric pumps. On the flip side my HLT is a bit heavier with Herms coil but it is also a keggle, I expect a similar size brewpot would be a bit lighter.

I think it would be a hassle to switch back and forth between propane and electric but if you wanted to convert back you could plug it.

You could run out of power if there was an outage during the boil. With propane, a back up tank is a good idea. You'd need a generator if your power went out. Depending on your element perhaps a medium size one.

 

[Jag75]

I've done the delayed brew that the Gf connect allows on my last brew . Worked out great . I just set up my Gf added the water the night before and when I woke up my mash temp was almost there .

 

[sictransit701]

What happens when the power goes out?

 

[brew703]

A 110v will bring 7 gal to a rolling boil with no issues. Note that some 110v systems have a 1650 watt element and some have a 2200 watt. I would definitely go with the 2200 watt system unless you plan on getting a heat stick to assist.

I moved to electric (High Gravity 110v, 2200 w boil coil element) which I bought 2nd hand.

It takes the same about of time to get to mash temps and then to a boil (60 min each).

Down in the swamp, boil for me is approx 217 degrees. Once it gets to the boil, I have to dial back to 92-95% and at this power, it still produces a nice boil.

I would have liked to get a 240v but didn't have a dedicated line and didn't want to spend the money to have one run.
My boil off with the electric is about .75/gal per hr vs 1 gal per hour with propane.

From a brew day perspective, it adds about an hour mainly due to clean up. I now have to cycle PBW through my pump at 160+ for 20 min or so then rinse.

Downside is when i add my IC chiller at 15 min left, it doesnt come back to a boil.

With that said, I'll never go back to propane. I will upgrade to a 240v system probably next year.

 

[Dland]

What happens when the power goes out?

Get out the gen set, or be glad you kept your rig propane capable, both viable options.

 

[smcinco]

What happens when the power goes out?

Just one more justification for a power wall.

 

[Spartan1979]

What happens when the power goes out?

I still have my propane burner and pot. I just finish in the garage.

 

[day_trippr]

What happens when the power goes out?

Everyone with heat elements, pumps and/or electronic controllers twiddles their thumbs, while the guy with the fully manual three-tier gravity-based gas system keeps brewing like nothing happened

Cheers!

 

[NewJersey]

I keep brewing like it's nothing (I have a generator)
That said, how often does the power go out for you guys??? Lol, almost never happens for me

 

[Deadalus]

What happens when the power goes out?

Put my homebrew down, take three steps to the left wheel the generator past the garage door, hit the electric start, and move the cord over. Sit back down and finish my homebrew. If I'm feeling generous, I might even flip the transfer switches and let the fam have some lights and throw some extra wood in the woodstove.

 

[kevin58]

What happens when the power goes out?

Just how often does the power go out at your house? Realistically I can count on one hand the number of times our power went out over the past several years. When we do have a power outtage it is usually the result of a storm which usually happen in the late afternoon or evening. I for one typically don't brew during storms.

And what was the cause for the electric stove fire? I can't imagine a newer, well maintained stove element just bursting into flames for no reason. Electric brewing set up properly should be safer than propane gas. And having a 240v outlet wired up by an electrician is not expensive. Mine cost just over $100 bucks.

 

[mkopec1]

I keep brewing like it's nothing (I have a generator)
That said, how often does the power go out for you guys??? Lol, almost never happens for me

Well that depends, the place Im at now very rarely ( I think it happened 2-3 times in the 10 yrs we have been there) since we have buried power lines coming to homes, but my last place? There would be a mild breeze and we would be out for hours. And somehow it only affected our "block" since I looked across the street and everyone had lights.

Getting back to electric vs propane, I would love to set up a proper brew place in my basement. Me and my son have started to clean a place up for it, its an unfinished 2000sq/ft basement with only a rudimentary wall separating the "utility" part with all the mechanical stuff like furnace and hot water heater. There is also a sink there so this will probably be where we set up. The problem is the basement has little to no electric ran other than the lights and a few plugs, probably no more than 2 circuits worth of power and my electric box is full. So I would have to install a sub panel or have it installed. Then I would have the option to run a proper 220v/240v line for the brew space. This is the plan but im not sure how pricey this will be or if I can do it myself. I have ran circuits before, so thats not a problem, but I have never added a sub panel, not sure if this is something I want to tackle myself. Its not that I worry about actually adding one, I worry about doing it properly with correct codes.

 

[Deadalus]

Well that depends, the place Im at now very rarely ( I think it happened 2-3 times in the 10 yrs we have been there) since we have buried power lines coming to homes, but my last place? There would be a mild breeze and we would be out for hours. And somehow it only affected our "block" since I looked across the street and everyone had lights.

Getting back to electric vs propane, I would love to set up a proper brew place in my basement. Me and my son have started to clean a place up for it, its an unfinished 2000sq/ft basement with only a rudimentary wall separating the "utility" part with all the mechanical stuff like furnace and hot water heater. There is also a sink there so this will probably be where we set up. The problem is the basement has little to no electric ran other than the lights and a few plugs, probably no more than 2 circuits worth of power and my electric box is full. So I would have to install a sub panel or have it installed. Then I would have the option to run a proper 220v/240v line for the brew space. This is the plan but im not sure how pricey this will be or if I can do it myself. I have ran circuits before, so thats not a problem, but I have never added a sub panel, not sure if this is something I want to tackle myself. Its not that I worry about actually adding one, I worry about doing it properly with correct codes.

If your box is full full a sub-panel is a short term solution in my opinion, particularly if your panel is undersized. You'll need two slots which you probably know. It might be better to bite the bullet and upgrade to a larger main panel. Depends on how much the rest of the house is using, water heater, stove, any heat or AC, and your current panel size. It's around a 23 amp draw on my brew panel I think when the element kicks on. With a 2000 sq ft basement upstairs is at least as big. That's a great amount of space to work with!

We had 100 amp service, 8 slots all doubled with a 60 amp sub-panel when we bought the house, everything electric. That got upgraded to a 200 amp panel which is now mostly filled. I was able to do all that but I need to have a bigger main disconnect service put in as I would like to split off my heat.

 

[mkopec1]

If your box is full full a sub-panel is a short term solution in my opinion, particularly if your panel is undersized. You'll need two slots which you probably know. It might be better to bite the bullet and upgrade to a larger main panel. Depends on how much the rest of the house is using, water heater, stove, any heat or AC, and your current panel size. It's around a 23 amp draw on my brew panel I think when the element kicks on. With a 2000 sq ft basement upstairs is at least as big. That's a great amount of space to work with!

We had 100 amp service, 8 slots all doubled with a 60 amp sub-panel when we bought the house, everything electric. That got upgraded to a 200 amp panel which is now mostly filled. I was able to do all that but I need to have a bigger main disconnect service put in as I would like to split off my heat.

Yeah its a good point to plan ahead. Im not sure what my service is but im betting its 100A right now, maybe 150A?. I dont think they went any further back in that time (1971). Honestly I dont really plan to upgrade the basement other than a brew area. Maybe an extra fridge? Keezer? And of course the 240v plug to brew with. The house is plenty big I just dont see us using the basement, especially once the kids move out, which will be hopefully soon! The only thing I would also like to do aside the brew stuff is add a few 15A plugs on dedicated circuits to the other side of the basement where our music stuff is (guitar amps, bass amps, etc..) We have to run extension cords for the stuff right now and its a chore. The only major stuff running on electric in my house is the AC, and stove, everything else is pretty much nat gas. The AC already has a sub panel for it.

Im thinking a whole new panel would be a mess because the entire house is wired 1970s style, with none of the newer codes adhered to, so im kinda afraid a new panel would be just opening a can of worms. AND tons of $$$

 

[gavinr]

Some more pros for electric besides the ones already stated:
1. More efficient. A much higher percentage of the heat generated goes directly into the process (mash/wort), as opposed to being lost outside the process and heating up the environment. Even with very high electric rates here in CA, it is cheaper for me to run an electric brewery vs propane.
2. You need to be very careful to vent large gas burners in indoor spaces - unburned fuel is dangerous for your health. Electric does not require venting, except if you need it for steam.

 

[Deadalus]

Yeah its a good point to plan ahead. Im not sure what my service is but im betting its 100A right now, maybe 150A?. I dont think they went any further back in that time (1971). Honestly I dont really plan to upgrade the basement other than a brew area. Maybe an extra fridge? Keezer? And of course the 240v plug to brew with. The house is plenty big I just dont see us using the basement, especially once the kids move out, which will be hopefully soon! The only thing I would also like to do aside the brew stuff is add a few 15A plugs on dedicated circuits to the other side of the basement where our music stuff is (guitar amps, bass amps, etc..) We have to run extension cords for the stuff right now and its a chore. The only major stuff running on electric in my house is the AC, and stove, everything else is pretty much nat gas. The AC already has a sub panel for it.

Im thinking a whole new panel would be a mess because the entire house is wired 1970s style, with none of the newer codes adhered to, so im kinda afraid a new panel would be just opening a can of worms. AND tons of $$$

What about power for a Wall of Sound man!

Yeah could be a can of worms. If you alter a circuit, like a new box or move a box, you are generally supposed to upgrade the whole branch. And new codes require GFCI/AFCI protection almost everywhere, though that is a good reason to get a new box as they take up extra room in the panel if you don't go the plug route. Something I don't know is if getting a new main panel also requires new branch wiring. Absolutely if there is no ground present.

If your panel has a set of main power breakers, you can add those up to figure out your service. Should be a sticker on the panel door I think too.

 

[Baglorious]

Electric is the way to go... but there is a lot LOT of expense getting it going. (A "lot" is relative, of course... it was a lot to me!)

I started with a 120v system... a High Gravity 120v 10 gallon kettle, that uses the Blichmann boilcoil... 2200 w, needs a 20A circuit. That was the most cost-effective way to get going. Just "plug and play" for me. And I thought the system was great. The power was (to my recollection) adequate to heat the water/wort just about as fast as propane. If slower, it was only slightly slower. And the precision control is WONDERFUL. Even if it was 25% slower, it would be worth it. If I were only doing 5-6 gallon batches, that 120v system would have been all that I needed.

(In fact, lol... I'm pretty sure I'm the guy that sold the system to brew703, who responded above.)

I upgraded because I usually do 10 gal batches (and am now moving to 15), so it had to be 240v. But brewing on the 120V system is what "hooked" me to electric, and for 5 gal batches, it would have been just great.

I already some advantages going to 240v, as there was previously a hot tub at my house... but there was no longer. So, I had an unused 50A breaker in my panel. I swapped it out for a 30A GFCI... and that breaker alone was $100ish. Another advantage: Had a friend who is a licensed electrician. Those happy coincidences were part of my justification for going to 240v. If it would have cos tme $400-500 just to get the power in... I'm not sure I would have taken the leap.

SO, I got started, with a lot of dumb luck, and saved on some of the up-front costs. A power controller (Blichmann Brewcommander) and lots of extras later, and I absolutely love electric, but am easily $1000 poorer. However, I'm happily running in my basement, year-round (with a steam condenser unit).


SO... if you're getting set for a basement remodel, that's a perfect time.

You won't regret electric if you're willing to spend the money. But it ain't cheap.


Also: The pot can be used for both propane/electric if you get one with the element in a 1.5" triclamp that can be removed. (A common electric setup... probably the most common.) You also would need a cheap 'plug' for your thermoprobe (which you'd remove as well). Neither of those are much hassle, and all the bits and pieces can be found at brewhardware.com and other vendors. Frankly, however, if you keep your eye out for used gear... just keep an eye out for 2nd kettle. By the time you get done buying all the other stuff for electric... a used basic kettle for $50-75 will seem trivial!

And I am not worried about getting shocked... at all. The GFCI is your safety net, and simply ensuring things are set up logically seems to make all of this reasonably safe.

 

[mkopec1]

Actually the electric stuff is not that expensive if you build your own. Ive been watching some vods on the subject and this dude that uses this stuff for making moonshine has got scores of videos on how to build 120v and 240v systems from off the shelf parts, including PIV controllers, wiring, and all that.

For instance, just last night I was watching one of his vods when he built a 120v 2200W heat stick boil pot for less than $30 (not including the price of the pot of course). Using one of these...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-2000-Watt-120-Volt-HWD-Element-15008/205680990

But they also have 240v versions that go all the way up to 5500W that are used in hot water heaters.

 

[Baglorious]

Actually the electric poopy is not that expensive if you build your own. Ive been watching some vods on the subject and this dude that uses this stuff for making moonshine has got scores of videos on how to build 120v and 240v systems from off the shelf parts, including PIV controllers and all that.

For instanc just last night I was watching one of his vods when he built a 120v 2200W heat stick boil pot for less than $30 (not including the price of the pot of course). Using one of these...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-2000-Watt-120-Volt-HWD-Element-15008/205680990

But they also have 240v versions that go all the way up to 5500W that are used in hot water heaters.

If you've got the technical bravery to go DIY with electric, and can do it on the cheap... then it is a no-brainer.

I am a tinkerer, and enjoy the heck out of it... and have built all sorts of brewery toys using the DIY posts on this site. Keg washer, carbonater, etc. I bought the tooling to silver solder ports and ferrules in my kettles, and have done all of that, so I customized my kettles for the electric components, but ended up buying the electric components I ultimately used. Even the pre-built 'basic' stuff (like a 5500 w element) is relatively inexpensive at $70ish (brewhardware.com, for example), but it all adds up in the end.

The biggest expense for me was the controller. If you've got the gumption and a little electric know-how already, and won't end up paying $350 for an electric controller... electric is definitely the way to go.

But then I wanted a bigger (and better) 20 gallon kettle... and a pump... and a nicer mashtun... and recirculating hardware, etc., etc.
I love my indoor electric system, and have zero regrets. And I'd do it over again, no question. Electric is totally worth it, in my opinion. (But when I consider my old-school propane burner, and basic Bayou Classic kettle in the garage... that made darn good beer too!)

 

[gnef]

another vote for electric if you can justify the startup cost with your comfort level.

I am very comfortable with working with electricity, and had already run 6 new 20 amp 110v lines a while before, and still had space for more in the main panel.

I ended up running a sub panel to where I wanted to brew. I used 6 gauge copper wiring on a 50 amp GFCI breaker in the main panel.

I kept my 'control panel' simple, in that I had a separate box for the HLT with a basic temp controller and SSR, and then a still dragon DIY kit for the boil kettle. Nothing fancy there, and fairly cheap. I used 30 amp wall switched and and RV 30 amp extension cable for my flexible wiring runs to the kettles and the like from the sub panel.

I also silver soldered the 2" TC fittings for the 5500w element housings, so that I didn't have to send out to a welder (I don't have welding equipment).

I did add a vent hood (you can look into steam condensers that have come out recently), and also a big sink in the garage to help. The big sink has been a great addition to the house in general, and is well used.

I also did all the copper sweating for the water plumbing for the brew area, it is pretty easy once you learn the basics, but if you have never done this before, you should do some practice joints first.

If you are going to run 110v lines, I'd recommend going ahead and run 12 gauge wiring and put in 20 amp breakers, it just makes sense to me to increase your headroom on those lines for a minimal added cost.

All this to say, if you can run a 220v line, I consider that to be the best option, and will give you the greatest flexibility and speed available for brewing. When I do a 30 min mash and 30 min boil for average beers, I can be done with a 5 gallon batch in 2.5 hours flat. Heating up water and wort on 5500W of energy (220v) is amazing to watch the first time after using propane for so many years.