Efficiency? What am I missing?

[jalc6927]

I see so many comments about efficiency %’s and don’t get it.

In my mind if a recipe calls for (as an example),

12 lbs of grain and I want 5.5 gallons of wort in fermenter at say. 1.055 OG and I get exactly that, I’m at 100% efficiency.

I hit each mark

How can I get any better than that?

Thanks

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do you like car analogies?
Efficiency is a little bit like gas mileage:
Lots of things affect it
It is useful to know in some situations if you want to tightly plan out a trip (OG)
You can get where you need to go regardless.
Improving it can slightly reduce your costs.

 

[ESBrewer]

You are comparing the total amount of sugars and dextrins you got extracted in the mash to the highest possible amount for the grain bill in question (different malts will have different max. extract that is considered 100%). http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/mash-efficiency.

The efficiency can be broken down to conversion efficiency (describes the conversion and release of starch) and lauter efficiency (describes how efficient your sparge was).

 

[Smellyglove]

I see so many comments about efficiency %’s and don’t get it.

In my mind if a recipe calls for (as an example),

12 lbs of grain and I want 5.5 gallons of wort in fermenter at say. 1.055 OG and I get exactly that, I’m at 100% efficiency.

I hit each mark

How can I get any better than that?

Thanks

That doesn't equal to 100% mash efficiency. (Brewhouse efficiency is imo worthless, so I will not mention it). Mash efficiency is how much you can extract out of the potential maximum from the grains. If you brew a clone recipe which is at 70% efficiency, and nail those numbers, that means both of you have extracted 70% of the total amount of potential extract in that grist.

If you don't know how much sugars you extract from a given amount of grain in your setup, you might miss the target OG.

Lets say that I share a recipe with you. I hit a preboil SG of 1.050 with a given amount of grain. You want do brew the same and go ahead and get all these grains, but you hit 1.060... That's because you have a higher efficiency than me. Meaning the beer will be off comparing to the original.

 

[jalc6927]

But it’s not possible to extract 100% of the sugars, so I guess the only point to this is to lower the grain bill to get the same result? Which to me sounds not worth it, unless I’m brewing huge batches

 

[Smellyglove]

But it’s not possible to extract 100% of the sugars, so I guess the only point to this is to lower the grain bill to get the same result? Which to me sounds not worth it, unless I’m brewing huge batches

When you say "100% of the sugars"... Potential extract from grains are given by the maltster. They conduct test mashes in a lab. It's possible to extract beyond 100% using the maltsters potential as a reference.

 

[ESBrewer]

Any recipe that defines the exact amount of grains, batch size and an original gravity makes an assumption on efficiency that is less than 100% and depends on the recipe.

You're right that it may sound unnecessary to maximize your efficiency. But if your efficiency is poor, you will be wasting some grains, potential mash tun space etc. When you brew a lot, you want to fine tune and maximize all kinds of things in the process.

 

[mongoose33]

But it’s not possible to extract 100% of the sugars, so I guess the only point to this is to lower the grain bill to get the same result? Which to me sounds not worth it, unless I’m brewing huge batches

You can do a number of things that affect efficiency. One big one is the crush--too coarse and you're not likely to do as well as a finer crush.

Another is the pH; still another is the mash temp.

Here's an example of how crush affects efficiency: I was doing BIAB using a Barley Crusher I had set at .020. That's pretty fine. I would typically have 95 percent of my conversion done by 30 minutes, because the smaller particles gelatinize more readily.

I now have a Monster Mill 3 roller. On advice of Morrey (that scoundrel!) I used a gap of .035. Guess what? Same exact efficiency--but it was much slower. I tested conversion using a refractometer at 30 minutes and I was only about 60 percent done. But by 60 minutes, I'd hit the same efficiency as the batch crushed at .020.

By the way, that was a beautiful thing--I don't have to adjust the grain bill of my batches based on the efficiency I obtained.

And that, in the end, is one reason why we're concerned w/ efficiency. If we can't get about the same efficiency each time, the resulting wort will vary, and so will the beer.

Another reason is cost. Higher efficiency, less grist needed, less cost. That's not such a huge thing at a homebrew level, but in commercial brewing it can be profits down the drain.

************

With my Barley Crusher I always double-crushed. It breaks up the big pieces a little more, and catches most of the whole grains that might sneak between the rollers--I'll get 'em the second time.

 

[Smellyglove]

By the way, that was a beautiful thing--I don't have to adjust the grain bill of my batches based on the efficiency I obtained.

If this is true either you or your setup is defying normal correleation between grist size and obtained extract at a given mash time and sparge volume.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

I like the way the O/P thinks Too bad it doesn't work like that.

 

[Smellyglove]

It's just numbers, those numbers has a reference.

 

[mongoose33]

If this is true either you or your setup is defying normal correleation between grist size and obtained extract at a given mash time and sparge volume.

Or something else. I'm pretty good at mash temp and pH. I'm also doing BIAB so there is no sparge with which to concern myself.

 

[ESBrewer]

And unusually low efficiency may be an indication of another problem that affects more things in your beer. Could be pH, temperature or any factor that mongoose33 lists above.

 

[Smellyglove]

Or something else. I'm pretty good at mash temp and pH. I'm also doing BIAB so there is no sparge with which to concern myself.

Do you take a long time to lauter? I do no-sparge myself, but I'm down to 65% for the big buddies, but with a bigger wort volume (to boil down), than the smaller grist sizes. If i didn't boil down the ME would be lower.

 

[mongoose33]

Do you take a long time to lauter? I do no-sparge myself, but I'm down to 65% for the big buddies, but with a bigger wort volume (to boil down), than the smaller grist sizes. If i didn't boil down the ME would be lower.

I don't understand. I lift the bag, it drains. I squeeze the bag to get a bit more out, and I'm done. I typically have 7.25 gallons of strike water, so I have a thin mash. I think that helps, generally.

I was shocked to get the same efficiency, but then I thought, "Hey, don't sweat it!"

 

[Smellyglove]

I don't understand. I lift the bag, it drains. I squeeze the bag to get a bit more out, and I'm done. I typically have 7.25 gallons of strike water, so I have a thin mash. I think that helps, generally.

I was shocked to get the same efficiency, but then I thought, "Hey, don't sweat it!"

Then I must ask, what OG's do do mean?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

When I see BIAB efficiency numbers I cringe. I get that it's cheaper to buy/build, but lifting a 10 gallon batch bag must suck. I wonder if anyone has ever done a cost analysis of say twenty 10 gallon batches at 65% versus 90% efficiency. At what point does it become more cost effective to invest a bit more in a full recirculation and sparging type herms/rims system. Where's the math nerds? I think @day_trippr or @augiedoggy dig number crunching

 

[Smellyglove]

10% eff bump in my 12L done batch-setup is about $1.20. Less if I'd minimize losses. Post boil is 16L. 8% less BH eff comparing to ME eff.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

In general, maximizing efficiency isn't a big deal for homebrew size batches. Knowing what your brewhouse efficiency is is important if you want beers to come out as planned.

That being said, low efficiency becomes an issue for high gravity beers. Why? Efficiency drops as the grain bill increases. With low efficiency to start, you have to add even more to account for your low efficiency. You can get to a point where the drop from adding more grains to account for low efficiency can drop your efficiency to the point where you literally can't hit your desired gravity.

You can brew low to mid gravity beers at 60% with no problems. I wouldn't want to attempt a 13% stout if my 6% beers were showing 60% brewhouse efficiency though.

 

[Smellyglove]

Pls don't use brewhouse efficiency as a number which is supposed to give any form of information, we don't know if you leave 1% or 30% behind due to losses in the various stages.