Efficiency Troubles

[Jebu1788]

So after reading up on different methods of mashing/sparging, I'm still at a loss as to my last couple of brews that have seem to hit a wall as to how efficient I can get.

I brewed a beer today with 11lbs of grain and only got to 1.046 for a 5-gallon batch. I've calculated this is 60-62% efficiency and two beers before I only got 57%. (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/german-smoked-rye-ale-210013/ ---this is the beer I did today.)

The Vienna malts I used (36% of the grist) I think had a poor crush, but the last few beers I've done have run into this problem, even though I have achieved 70-75% in the past.

My method has varied slightly, but this is what I did today: Mashed in with 4.5 gallons and let it sit for 1 hour at 154*F (stirred A LOT before the lid was closed and once again half way through). I drained the mash tun after vorlauf for 5-10 minutes and added about 1.5 gallons of 170*F water. I stirred and vorlaufed for another 5 minutes then as I was draining added more 170*F water on top using a coffee lid as to not disturb the grain bed.

I know not all the grains were well crushed, but again, this is not a unique occurrence, and I should be doing better by this point. If you've read through this rambling mess, I thank you. Any ideas?

 

[Berock]

check your thermometers. I noticed my different ones can be 10 degrees off from one another. That could be the difference of being at 140 during mash versus 150.

 

[Malticulous]

Get your own mill as soon as you can. No other thing has as big of impact of BHE. You will have hard time getting consistency with out one.

 

[r2eng]

^^ +1

I also jumped in efficiency with a good crush and mashing with 1.5qts H2O per pound. I regularly hit 80%+

 

[Jebu1788]

Gah, another capital expenditure... Well, I figured it would come some day. Good thing I'm not brewing to save money. The real concern I have is space, and moving things around since I'm in a small apartment. Maybe next year if I get something more permanent.

Also, the thermometers may be off. But the one I use is electronic and quick read. It has the boiling point for water correct anyway...

Thanks for the tips.

 

[Malticulous]

Best efficiency is form equal run offs. I've simplified my process. My strike water is half the boil volume plus the grain absorption. My sparge is just the other half of the boil volume. With my tight crush I get 85% BHE on average size grain bills. I might try topping off the kettle to get it lower.

Kia has put together a lot of info on his site. It's worth a read as is the rest of his site.
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Understanding_Efficiency
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency

 

[hotbrew]

I used to have efficiencies in the low to mid 60s all the time too. I was confused as to what I was doing wrong too. Then I increased my sparge water temp. Boy did that make a difference. Between increasing my sparge water temp and some other tweaks, I now regularly get my mash efficiency between 82-85%.

I fly sparge but increasing your sparge temp will work with batch sparging as well. Using your procedures, I would vorlauf and drain as usual then add another 1.5 gallons of 175F water. Then fly sparge that last bit with 185F water. Yes, you potentially run the risk of tannin extraction when the grain gets over 172 but that water will not be in contact with the grain long enough to extract much, if any. I do it all the time, I regularly fly sparge with 185F water (over the course of an hour) and I never get any tannins.

Raising the sparge water temp will lower the viscosity of the wort as it rinses from the grains, hence you will get a better mash efficiency.

 

[godrick]

Get a mill. I had nothing but problems with my efficiency being all over the place (& arguments with the local HB supply) until I purchased a Barley Crusher. I went from 65% to 83% with no other changes. Batch sparge, no special sparge temps, no games. Do it and you'll never look back!

 

[Jebu1788]

Kia has put together a lot of info on his site. It's worth a read as is the rest of his site.
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Understanding_Efficiency
http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency

*Bookmarked*

I have always found the Kaiser to be very helpful. I'll certainly read these pages before my next brew. Thanks!

 

[Inhiding]

check your thermometers. I noticed my different ones can be 10 degrees off from one another. That could be the difference of being at 140 during mash versus 150.

Would that just have an effect on the fermentabililty of the wort, and no effect on the efficiency?

 

[Jebu1788]

Would that just have an effect on the fermentabililty of the wort, and no effect on the efficiency?

I don't know the exact temps or chemistry behind it, but yes that would affect efficiency. The grains need to be held at a correct temperature for the starches to be converted to sugars that the yeast can ferment.

Someone else who knows more than me could be more precise, but it seems to me that 140 would certainly be too low for a good yield.

 

[Malticulous]

Would that just have an effect on the fermentabililty of the wort, and no effect on the efficiency?

If you mash at 140 it will take longer than 60 minutes for conversion. Getting full conversion is key to efficiency. Even if you wanted to limit efficiency for wort quality you want as complete of conversion as possible. A good crush will give the enzymes access to most of the starch.

Before I had a mill I would use a rolling pin over the poorer crushed grain I had. Back then I had pretty consistent 80% BHE with a manual fly sparge. I got my mill, a bigger MLT and switched to batch sparging at the same time. My efficiency went up.

For a long time I would mash at 1.3qt/lb, use a mashout infusion and double batch sparge. I averaged 85%. Now I tightened my mill and simplified the mash process I get the same 85%. Without tightening the mill I would have lost 3-5%.