I just brewed a 10 gallon batch of Helles that is now in the fermenter. Based on the the brewing chemistry calculator I used I added 3.5 tsp of lactic acid to reach a pH of 5.4. This was added to the strike water only. I was in a hurry and didn't double check before brewing. After the fact, I checked the chemistry calculator again and realized that I hadn't checked the box for "add to mash only". Recalculation of what I did brings my estimated mash pH in the 4.95 territory. I had a good efficiency ~80%. But I didn't check for complete conversion. Has anyone ever experienced this problem? Can you tell me what the beer might taste like?
Effects of an uncorrected low mash pH
- Thread starter wischwm
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The honest answer is, of course "I don't know" but common sense and experience tell us a few things. One is that the best beers are made with a mash pH in a higher band (5.3 - 5.6) and thus we can conclude that this won't be a best beer. There seems to be a consensus that a mash pH which is too high will result in 'muddy' or insipid flavor. Some think to low a mash pH results in flavors which are too bright, whatever that means but many will try to convince you that if you added too much acid the pH of the resulting beer will be too low and thus taste sour. If you really go overboard on the acid that is true but at the level of mash pH around 5 it is not because the yeast produce acid in order to lower their environment's pH to where they like it which is still below 5 and will, if you provided extra acid, simply produce less of their own so wort pH is where they want it.
I would encourage anyone interested in this area to make solutions of lactic acid at to pH 3, 4 and 5 and taste them. The lower the pH the more sour the solution is going to taste but you aren't going to be overwhelmed by the acidity at any of these levels and may even have trouble convincing yourself that a lactic acid solution at pH 5 is tart. Now repeat with hydrochloric, citric, tartaric, and malic acids. These will definitely taste much more sour than the lactic acid solutions (except for the hydrochloric will will taste less sour) of the same pH and lead to the conclusion that it isn't so much the pH that gives the sour taste but the acid anion.
In a nutshell you are probably OK but could do better at a higher mash pH.
I would encourage anyone interested in this area to make solutions of lactic acid at to pH 3, 4 and 5 and taste them. The lower the pH the more sour the solution is going to taste but you aren't going to be overwhelmed by the acidity at any of these levels and may even have trouble convincing yourself that a lactic acid solution at pH 5 is tart. Now repeat with hydrochloric, citric, tartaric, and malic acids. These will definitely taste much more sour than the lactic acid solutions (except for the hydrochloric will will taste less sour) of the same pH and lead to the conclusion that it isn't so much the pH that gives the sour taste but the acid anion.
In a nutshell you are probably OK but could do better at a higher mash pH.
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
I once hit a mash pH that low, because I used a lot of home-smoked malt and didn't realize how much it acidifies in the smoking process. It wasn't my best rauchbier, but it was fine.
In a nutshell, I agree with aj's nutshell.
In a nutshell, I agree with aj's nutshell.
SpeedYellow
Well-Known Member
By the way, you might assume that your low mash pH may lead to a low beer pH, but that's not necessarily true at all. My beer with the 4.9 mash pH had a final beer pH of 4.56 which is pretty typical for this lager. As a side note, this experience made me wonder if beer flavor quality may be correlated to pH change during fermentation. Just random musings....
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
Interesting question, which led me to a google search on the topic, which led me to an interesting presentation from Weyermann malt on the topic:
http://www.weyermann.de/downloads/pdf/Weyermann_TKW_Mash-pH_2010.pdf
Worthwhile read with some interesting photos, graphs and general information, it does include advertising for Weyermann acidulated malt.
http://www.weyermann.de/downloads/pdf/Weyermann_TKW_Mash-pH_2010.pdf
Worthwhile read with some interesting photos, graphs and general information, it does include advertising for Weyermann acidulated malt.
That is a point I tried to make in #2. Yeast regulate to the pH they want. You can actually help them in this by providing them with an acidic wort (so they can put all their metabolic effort into making beer rather than acid) or hinder them by providing a more basic wort so they have to put more effort into producing acid but they regulate pretty well. Though knockout pH may be best between 5.0 and 5.2 the best tasting beers seem to come from mash pH higher than that.
Another point I was trying to make in #2. It appears that dry stout doesn't taste tart relative to an ordinary ale because its pH is lower but rather because it has a different carboxylic acid spectrum. This does not mean that a slightly lower mash pH might not be better for stouts (I don't personally find this to be true but others are of this opinion) but you aren't lowering mash pH to get lower beer pH.
If you have any experience at lagers you should be able to tell what the finished product will be like well before lagering is over. Anything wildly off, such as excess sourness, should easily be detectable even in the fermenter.
Room. Always room unless otherwise specifically stated. That's pretty much the standard practice these days.
thehaze
Well-Known Member
I believe the general consensus is room temp. and this is also what I personally use.
By the way, the main detriment to mashing at a lower than desirable pH is that proteolytic enzyme action is increased and that MAY lead to higher rates of protein cleaving and potentially a thinner mouthfeel.
