Easy Way to Make Sour Beers (1 gal wort + dregs)

[dantheman13]

Subscribed! I want to start brewing sours with dregs soon. I will be back to reread informations!

 

[nppeders]

I think I'm gonna head to my LHBS and buy a bunch of these gallon jugs and start doing this! I love this idea!

 

[Almighty]

Mr.Dank - I'm surprised you haven't tried this before.

I no longer make 5 gal batches, everything I make now is 6-7 gal. It really doesn't take anymore time. And for beers of normal gravity, all the grain will still fit in my 5 gal igloo mash tun (I found 15 lbs is about the limit).

Well, the next step in this thread is to start trading some of these beers. That way all of us can use the dregs from the swapped bottles to get access to yeast and bugs we can't get where we live.

Let me know if anyone is interested.

 

[dougdecinces]

I think I'm gonna head to my LHBS and buy a bunch of these gallon jugs and start doing this! I love this idea!

If I may make a humble recommendation, go to your closest upscale grocery store and get a gallon of apple juice in a glass bottle instead. Since it's still technically, barely, vaguely fall there should be some in stock. My LHBS sells jugs for $5 plus tax and I can get a gallon of apple juice for $7.00. For me it's a no-brainer. You can either spend the next several weeks drinking lots of apple juice, make apple jelly, or a big, honking batch of hard cider (or all three).

 

[nppeders]

I'm going to midwest brew supply right now as it's barely 1 mile from my office! I have 10 gallons of Blonde ale at home and I think 2 gallons are gonna get funktified!

My blonde was fermented in Primary half on Belgian Ardenes, and the other have on American Ale. I'll put 1 gallon of each into a gallon jug and then I need to decide on which dregs to put on them. I have some Le Prof flemish ale in my cellar, I also have some Jolly Pumpkin. Now that I think about it I have a couple Telegraph beers in my cellar that I've been itching to drink. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[Waylit]

Cool thread. I've been brewing small batch sours for a couple years now. I normally brew a light base beer with Pilsner and wheat malts and aim for an OG of 1.060 . The 5 gallon batch is fermented for 2-3 days with my favorite belgian yeast 3724. After 48 hours the gravity is around 1.035 (the beer is about half way done fermenting) At this point I transfer the beer to four 1 gallon jugs and pitch dregs.

I do the initial fermentation with 3724 for two reasons. The mixture of brett and pedio with a belgian base is the perfect combination for my taste buds. I've tried making sours with a neutral yeast like 1056 and to me they come across one dimensional.

The second reason is that your beer will be done faster. Most of my sours finish around 1.005. So that's only a drop of 30 gravity points, which depending on the dregs can happen within a month. Not that you shouldn't let the beer condition longer, but a pre-fermentation can cut your time in half, and make for an awesome wild brew. -Cheers

 

[Almighty]

Yup, that is my recommendation also. I thought I wrote that somewhere. I get a gallon of cider for $5.50 or organic cider for $6.50 at Henry's, Whole Foods or Boney's (Not sure how widespread those stores are)

If you are going to buy several at a time you should take the opportunity to do a yeast comparison. Hopefully you already have the yeast on hand.

I've tried a few so far with mixed results:
- Chimay yeast - pretty tasty and unique fruit flavors
- English yeast - WLP005 - made a very rough cider, not a lot of apple flavor but tastes pretty close to commercial hard ciders in England
- Scottish yeast - WLP028 - similar to the English yeast but I should have fermented cooler.
- California Common yeast - my favorite cider, preserved a lot of apple flavor and had a nice crisp after taste
- Saison Cider - Wyest 3711 - a bit strange, not sure how well the flavors mix. Might be better with he Dupont strain.

Bikes, Beer, and Adventures: Beer Recipes

And I realized I never posted about the Scottish or Saison ciders. Probably because I wasn't too excited about them.

I would really like to try a lager yeast and Brett only next.

 

[Almighty]

Good point Waylit about the Belgian yeast strain. This has been noticed by several homebrewers and pro-brewers. Here is a thread at BBB about it:
The Burgundian Babble Belt -- Pushing the Homebrew Envelope

Waylit,
Since you have been doing this a while. Do you mind sharing info about a few of your favorite beers you've made? (wort description, dreg type, additions)

 

[Waylit]

Other then the usual suspects like RR and JP, I'v had success with dregs from other wild ales. The beers listed below have all made interesting sour beers. I didn't have much luck with Goose Island - Lolita or Lost Abbey - Red Poppy.

Allagash - coolship Red
Weyerbacher - Riserva
The Bruery - Sour in the Rye
Captain Lawrence - Rosso E Marrone
Avery - Immitis

I made one of my favorite wild ales without dregs. It was made by fermenting a beer half way with 3724 then transferring 1 gallon onto 2 lbs of freshly picked raspberries from a local farm. It fermented super dry from the wild yeast, and had a beautiful yet funky sourness. Just a lovely wild framboise. Using farm fresh fruit instead of dregs can work very well.

 

[HokieBrewer]

That last idea is very cool.

 

[dantheman13]

Anyone have success with dregs form Cascade Brewing Co. sour beers?

 

[Spring_Chicken]

I find gallon jugs for free at recycling centers. You just have to be quick.

 

[Almighty]

Dank - Somehow I missed your question.

My blonde was fermented in Primary half on Belgian Ardenes, and the other have on American Ale. I'll put 1 gallon of each into a gallon jug and then I need to decide on which dregs to put on them. I have some Le Prof flemish ale in my cellar, I also have some Jolly Pumpkin. Now that I think about it I have a couple Telegraph beers in my cellar that I've been itching to drink. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

Le Prof? is it the Reinaert Flemish Wild Ale? I actually just opened one last week that had been sitting around for over a year. It was pretty good, nothing super special, but had some nice funk. I decided to add the dregs to some of my Belgian Dubbel. And it had some nice pellicle bubbles in a few days. I'll post about is shortly.

Jolly Pumpkin is great and aggressive - if you like their beers you will like the dregs. And you can get a pretty quick turn-around on these beers.

Telegraph - Haven't used them yet. But I have a bottle of Petite Obscura that I will try soon.

 

[Almighty]

Waylit -
What type of wort of you pairing with your dregs?
And what combinations have been successful for you?

I like the idea of using wild yeast from fruit. I have tried it also with 50% success. I tried with orange blossoms, but ended up with a phenolic soup that was undrinkable. The other one that was successful was from wild grapes that I picked in East County San Diego. They added just a hint of funk to a Belgian Dubbel I brewed last year. That batch is still aging, but I'll try it soon.

dantheman13 - Here is a good thread over at BBB.
The Burgundian Babble Belt -- Pushing the Homebrew Envelope
In short, no one I can find has experiencewith Cascade dregs, but it looks very possible. I have been meaning to try this soon. If you do try it please give us an update.

 

[nppeders]

I segmented out two seperate gallons of my Blonde ale which was in Primary with 1056. I also picked up some bottles for pitching...

1. Jolly Pumpkin Oro de Calabaza (biere de garde)
2. St. Somewhere - Lactio Devina (belgian strong pale)

 

[bottlebomber]

Some good ideas here. I've been putting off sours for a long time because of the reasons you mention. Recent trip to Russian River in Cali has me considering getting started. Thanks for the tips.

RRs sours are amazing. Pliny is not the best thing coming out of that brewery by any means.

 

[Double_D]

Some good ideas here. I've been putting off sours for a long time because of the reasons you mention. Recent trip to Russian River in Cali has me considering getting started. Thanks for the tips.

Same here! I decided to sour half of my christmas ale. And then remembered the bacteria doesn't do well in hoppy beers. I'm at 60ibu or so. What do you think?

 

[Almighty]

Dank-
I have heard good things about the Brett strain in St. Somewhere but haven't got to try that one myself. Please post when you have some results.

Double D-
What type of beer is the Christmas Ale? Is this beer hoppy or did bitter to 60 IBUs to balance the sweetness?

The 60 IBUs will deter the lacto from producing acid, but will not effect the Brett. So the beer will probably come out with some funk and very little sourness if any.

 

[nppeders]

Dank-
I have heard good things about the Brett strain in St. Somewhere but haven't got to try that one myself. Please post when you have some results.

Double D-
What type of beer is the Christmas Ale? Is this beer hoppy or did bitter to 60 IBUs to balance the sweetness?

The 60 IBUs will deter the lacto from producing acid, but will not effect the Brett. So the beer will probably come out with some funk and very little sourness if any.

I emailed Bob from St. Somewhere about culturing from their bottle. He said that it might be tough as they bottle with champagne yeast. I'm gonna try anyways though! I'll keep the temp as low as possible in order to inhibit the champagne yeast as much as possible. He did say that if anyone comes by the brewery, he'd be happy to pull some yeast from any of their fermenters to take home.
Here's a direct quote from him..
"All our beers are open fermented, which allows some native wild yeast, and Brett. to do their thing along with the house yeast. All our beers develop a Brett. presence from the environment. I try to encourage it to some extent. I want it there, but not overwhelmingly. - Bob Sylvester

 

[Almighty]

Dank-
Here is the background I had on St. Somewhere. Bob quotes, "Lectio Divina with a shot of older beer with a more mature Brett. colony."
The Burgundian Babble Belt -- Pushing the Homebrew Envelope

So I guess wait and see what happens

 

[MatthewHall]

Just thought i'd throw a little update. This is my Belgian Golden at 2.5 months. Scummy bubbles are now covering the top. To recap: partial mash, 1.060, dregs used Two Brothers Askew, Supplication.

 

[BrewDocND]

This thread has inspired me and it's been dead for a bit so I wanted to resurrect it and see if anyone had any updates on experiments they've done.

I pitched the dregs from a Jolly Pumpkin Oro de Calabaza into 1.75 gallons of Belgian pale ale wort (BCS) on November 5th. OG 1.059.

Gravity on December 10: 1.034. Tasted like band-aids marinated in lemon juice.

Gravity on December 23: 1.010. Tastes pretty ******* amazing. I'll check gravity again in a 3-4 weeks and bottle if ready. I'm pretty optimistic.

Already planning my next sour based on what people have said on this thread and the Mad Fermentationist's web site (a great resource).

 

[GiraffeBrew]

It's my 'Bug Barn'.........It's funky.

 

[Almighty]

BrewDocND -
Interesting results. I'm a little surprised the flavor change so much in 2 weeks between tastings, but at least it is for the better. Make sure the gravity has stabilized before you decide to bottle and please read all the good bottling threads on HBT.

And thanks for the wake-up call. I have a bunch of updates that will be coming shortly.

 

[Bithead]

I've been lurking this thread and decided to try this technique as well. I've got a bottle of JP Bam Noire and a batch of closet cleaner/dead guy-ish ready to bottle. It's at 1.020 and 35 IBUs. I hope not too hoppy. I expect to rack and bottle this weekend. I'll report progress.

 

[BrewDocND]

BrewDocND -
Interesting results. I'm a little surprised the flavor change so much in 2 weeks between tastings, but at least it is for the better. Make sure the gravity has stabilized before you decide to bottle and please read all the good bottling threads on HBT.

And thanks for the wake-up call. I have a bunch of updates that will be coming shortly.

I believe I misspoke a bit when I said I would bottle in 3-4 weeks. I meant I would check again in 3-4 weeks and wait until my gravity was stable for a month before bottling. I have set aside "wild" bottling equipment and have plenty of experience bottling small batches.

I was shocked at the change too. The temp here has been wildly inconsistent. It was under 50 in my apartment for the first 10 days of fermentation because our power went out here in CT. Now I try to hold it at 68, but my apartment doesn't hold heat very well and the thermostat is wacky so IDK how consistent that is. anywhere from 60-74 I think.

 

[peaktopview]

quick question, how are you guys pulling samples for gravity readings from gallon batches? do you sanitize your sample tube and dump back in or just consider it a taste?
just wondering because the more beer that makes it to the end the better, right?

i usually use a sanitized wine thief for my high gravity, regular yeast, special small batch brews and just drain the beer back into the carboys after taking a reading in the wine thief, but just concerned that the wine thief will keep some bugs with it. i don't mind keeping a separate wine thief, but also don't want to be mixing bug small batch with different bug small batch (at least for now as i experiment with different bugs and their flavors).

 

[GiraffeBrew]

If your thief is stainless, you're golden.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

If your thief is stainless, you're golden.

There's always SOME plastic...

 

[peaktopview]

yeah, not stainless. just wondering how to keep from testing samples so i have some sour beer in a year or so.

b