Easy Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)

[Justibone]

If you wanted to, you could make a concentrated wort, say enough sugar to be 10% ABV, and use that for the boil. Then, when you put it into the fermenter, you could add an equal amount of water to dilute the sugars down to be only 5% ABV. The complication would be in calculating the IBUs...

 

[striles]

Deathbrewer. Great tutorial! Thanks. I have a question about your fermentation box. Do you have instructions on how to construct it? I notice you have a fan installed so I'm assuming you have a temperature control. Any advice you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks! Steve

 

[Hopelesst]

My girlfriend and I brewed our second batch on saturday, a six gallon version of this recipe . We did an all grain batch as you described using a 20 and a 9 quart pot. Things went pretty smoothly, but we only got 58% efficiency. I'm hoping the fine residents of this thread might help us correct this for our future beers. Here's how our brew went:

Our six gallon batch used 10 pounds of grain, subbed malted rye for the flaked, and we got six row instead of two thinking it would help break down the corn.

We mashed in with 14qts (1.4 qt/lb) @162 and hit our strike temp of 148. We monitored at 5, 20, and 45 min, adding a teapots worth on boiling water in the process. We stirred well at each temp check. Temp never went below 146.

We let the bag drain through a slotted collander for ~20 minuets before squeezing some fluid out of it. We didnt think about temp drop for the sparge water and raised two gallons to our sparge goal of 168 and poured the water over it before tea bagging and letting it sit for 15. It went back into the collander to drain before a bit more squeezing.

Combined we had about 4.6 gallons of wort but pre boil grav said 1.040. We didnt have and dme and didnt know the math to determine final grav from an un diluted partial boil volume. We added enough brown sugar to raise the final volume by 1.004.as a precaution.

We proceeded with a partial boil, and everything went fine. We never quite reached hot break but figured that was fine. Our stove apparently can't quite bring that volume to a vigorous roiling boil. We got churning and bubbles and that seemed good enough.

Ice batch cooling went well, hitting 70 after about 25 minutes. We tried pouring the wort through a folded nylon bag for filtering and it but out gunked up immediately. Next we just poured out into a bucket with a clean paint strainer bag and that gunked up too, lots of sediment in the wort. Final volume was 1.040. We areated and pitched.

Without the brown sugar our grav was only at 36, a full 10 points under our target. In the future I'll keep some extract on hand to fix gravity but I should never need to correct a ten point swing. What am I doing wrong here? Am I losing efficiency by doing partial boils? Did I use a recipe with too much grain for my pot and not have enough water to really saturate everything? And if I have a preboil out final grav from a recipe how to I determine the target grav for my partial volume?

Thanks!

 

[TarVolon]

Thanks again for this thread, DB! I read through the whole thing twice before doing my first AG BIAB a few weeks ago. Just finished my second brew day using this method, and thought I'd post the method tweaks/results so that others who are doing the same research I did have another data point or two.

I used this general method with these particulars:

*Used double-crushed grain from LHBS

*Both batches had 9-10 pounds of grain. In each case, I went with 3.5 gallons of strike water and 3.5 gallons of sparge water. In each case, I ended up with 5 gallons almost on the dot post-boil (a little less in the carboy, once the trub is filtered out). While I mashed/sparged on the stove, I went outside for the full boil.

*Used the oven to maintain temperature during a 75 minute mash. The lowest heat setting is 170, so I set it to 170 and then turned it off 5-10 minutes before putting the mash in. The first time, the temperature raised four degrees (from 148 to 152). The second time, I opened the oven door for 45-60 seconds before putting in the pot. It kept the temperature dead on 149 for 75 minutes.

*After mashing, lift the bag, let everything drain, then ladle a little sparge water over it, let it drain again, then dunk it in the sparge water a few times, then let it sit for 10 minutes, then lift and let drain again. Once it drains, squeeze the hell out of it.

First batch efficiency: 84%
Second batch efficiency: 80%

 

[agenthucky]

*After mashing, lift the bag, let everything drain, then ladle a little sparge water over it, let it drain again, then dunk it in the sparge water a few times, then let it sit for 10 minutes, then lift and let drain again. Once it drains, squeeze the hell out of it.

First batch efficiency: 84%
Second batch efficiency: 80%

I wouldn't squeeze the bag, you have the chance to extract tannins from the grain. A little less efficiency won't hurt and you'll be a little less prone to extract tannins. Just let it sit in a colander and drain naturally.

 

[TarVolon]

I wouldn't squeeze the bag, you have the chance to extract tannins from the grain. A little less efficiency won't hurt and you'll be a little less prone to extract tannins. Just let it sit in a colander and drain naturally.

I still don't totally understand what causes tannin extraction, but there have been a number of bag-squeezers in this thread, and all of them have said that they haven't noticed any issues. If I start noticing off-flavors or get a good understanding of how this will cause a tannin-problem, I'll stop, but until then, it doesn't seem like there's any harm in trying it out if it's working for others.

 

[agenthucky]

I still don't totally understand what causes tannin extraction, but there have been a number of bag-squeezers in this thread, and all of them have said that they haven't noticed any issues. If I start noticing off-flavors or get a good understanding of how this will cause a tannin-problem, I'll stop, but until then, it doesn't seem like there's any harm in trying it out if it's working for others.

I think the people that understand tannin extraction probably hold off on it. Whether it is perceived in the final result is up to variables with different taste thresholds. I know a lot of times I get a bad homebrew the person never let's me know there is a tannin problem, they don't notice it, or know how to explain it.

Tannins are produced at a certain pH and above a certain temperature threshold. They leach out of the grain husks first, so often time some can be produced but be trapped in the grains. Stirring your mash a lot, and squeezing the grain bag will help jostle them out. It's possible there isn't as much there in your brews as some others, but there's a reason people say not to. It only helps tannin extraction. This is the reason you pull the grains when you steep them (extract with steeped grains) before 170F and they tell you not to squeeze the bag. In that example there is no efficiency gain from squeezing them, but that's why they say not to.

Also, a lot of times tannin extraction and increased efficiency go hand in hand. I've had home brewers give me their beer and tout that they had a near 90% efficiency, but on a homebrew level that's not always the best thing. There is a reason professional breweries take much caution in getting to the 90% efficiency range on their expensive equipment.

Bottom line, if you enjoy your beer then don't change your method.

 

[agenthucky]

I still don't totally understand what causes tannin extraction, but there have been a number of bag-squeezers in this thread, and all of them have said that they haven't noticed any issues. If I start noticing off-flavors or get a good understanding of how this will cause a tannin-problem, I'll stop, but until then, it doesn't seem like there's any harm in trying it out if it's working for others.

Oh and also I use the oven too to keep a temp. Leaving it open for a few seconds helps, you don't want to put it next to a red-hot burner, that thing is at a few hundred degrees. And if your average mash temperature increases, just imagine what it's doing to the grain sitting on the bottom of your kettle.

 

[agenthucky]

I still don't totally understand what causes tannin extraction, but there have been a number of bag-squeezers in this thread, and all of them have said that they haven't noticed any issues. If I start noticing off-flavors or get a good understanding of how this will cause a tannin-problem, I'll stop, but until then, it doesn't seem like there's any harm in trying it out if it's working for others.

oh and a quick tip to see if you're likely to extract tannins by squeezing is to take a gravity reading of what comes out when you squeeze the bag. If it's below 1.010, you're probably extracting some tannins. this is when people stop sparging in a classic setup.

 

[TarVolon]

Oh and also I use the oven too to keep a temp. Leaving it open for a few seconds helps, you don't want to put it next to a red-hot burner, that thing is at a few hundred degrees. And if your average mash temperature increases, just imagine what it's doing to the grain sitting on the bottom of your kettle.

Yeah, I'd definitely turn the heat off 5-10 minutes before putting the kettle in to get rid of that burner problem. But even that didn't work the first time when I only left the door open long enough to put the kettle inside. I assume that the 4 degree increase means the ambient temperature in the oven was still in the mid-150s or higher. The goal was to get a uniform temperature around 150 degrees for insulation, but it makes it tricky when there's no 150 degree setting on the oven.

 

[TarVolon]

oh and a quick tip to see if you're likely to extract tannins by squeezing is to take a gravity reading of what comes out when you squeeze the bag. If it's below 1.010, you're probably extracting some tannins. this is when people stop sparging in a classic setup.

Thanks, will check that next time.

 

[agenthucky]

Yeah, I'd definitely turn the heat off 5-10 minutes before putting the kettle in to get rid of that burner problem. But even that didn't work the first time when I only left the door open long enough to put the kettle inside. I assume that the 4 degree increase means the ambient temperature in the oven was still in the mid-150s or higher. The goal was to get a uniform temperature around 150 degrees for insulation, but it makes it tricky when there's no 150 degree setting on the oven.

wow sounds like you have a great oven. Mine vents at the top, so it cools quickly. I'll lose temp after a certain amount of time. Do you cover your mash kettle?

 

[TarVolon]

wow sounds like you have a great oven. Mine vents at the top, so it cools quickly. I'll lose temp after a certain amount of time. Do you cover your mash kettle?

I don't really know about my oven quality, because this is the first one I've ever had. But I did preheat to 170, turn it off, wait 10 minutes, put in a 6 gallon mash kettle with a glass lid, and still have the mash temperature raise from 148 to 152 over 75 minutes.

 

[wormraper]

being that I'm not a brewer who who brews multiple times a week or a month even (I will probably be brewing about once every 1 to 1 - 1/2 months on average unless I make a small 2.5 gallon batch for curiosity's sake. I only have ONE 5 gallon pot at the moment coming from Northern Brewers so would going all grain be worth it money wise to grab an extra 7 or 8 gallon pot (being that they cost $80 ish) in cost savings? I know "quality" of AG vs. Extract is debatable but I'd be looking at as a cost savings too.

 

[agenthucky]

There is a debate on quality of extract vs all grain? Like, seriously?

 

[wfowlks]

being that I'm not a brewer who who brews multiple times a week or a month even (I will probably be brewing about once every 1 to 1 - 1/2 months on average unless I make a small 2.5 gallon batch for curiosity's sake. I only have ONE 5 gallon pot at the moment coming from Northern Brewers so would going all grain be worth it money wise to grab an extra 7 or 8 gallon pot (being that they cost $80 ish) in cost savings? I know "quality" of AG vs. Extract is debatable but I'd be looking at as a cost savings too.

Go with the 20.5 gallon pot and you can do BIAB. I did they are on amazon cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-1082-Stainless-Steamer/dp/B000VXKJJ8/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1331492907&sr=1-1-catcorr

I don't regret it and it comes in use for sooo many other things. Its a long term investment, and looking at it from an economics standpoint the initial investment pays off in the long run because of the durability and the multi-uses you will get out of it.

I've even lent it to friends for a few bucks or a beer for their brew day.

On a side note I got a lot of my BIAB expertise from http://www.brewgeeks.com/a-biab-brewday-scoundrel.html

 

[wormraper]

Go with the 20.5 gallon pot and you can do BIAB. I did they are on amazon cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Bayou-Classic-1082-Stainless-Steamer/dp/B000VXKJJ8/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1331492907&sr=1-1-catcorr

I don't regret it and it comes in use for sooo many other things. Its a long term investment, and looking at it from an economics standpoint the initial investment pays off in the long run because of the durability and the multi-uses you will get out of it.

I've even lent it to friends for a few bucks or a beer for their brew day

20.5 gallons?? damn, would I be able to even boil that much??? I have a flat top glass stove (one of those ones that don't have the old fashioned coils). I know a lot of people complain about more than 7 gallons)

 

[agenthucky]

20.5 gallons?? damn, would I be able to even boil that much??? I have a flat top glass stove (one of those ones that don't have the old fashioned coils). I know a lot of people complain about more than 7 gallons)

20.5 gallon is overkill, but the ability to boil depends on the diameter of the bottom of the kettle. Your stove will only heat a certain about of BTU, and it will disperse along the bottom of the kettle. It's possible to use a 20 gallon pot if it is tall, but wider hurts the heat distribution. 7 gallons is plenty, I use a 22 QT pot and get away with a little under 5 gallons.

all in all, that's not an awful price for a 20 gallon pot.

 

[wfowlks]

20.5 gallons?? damn, would I be able to even boil that much??? I have a flat top glass stove (one of those ones that don't have the old fashioned coils). I know a lot of people complain about more than 7 gallons)

I originally had a 9 gallon and I could bring that to a boil on my glass top stove. The 20 gallon actually covers several burners, additionally if you use reflectix around it that helps as well. But IMO solid investment. I currently do stovetop when its cold out and burner when its nicer out.

Its worked for me so far, and I've been able to get higher efficiency, because I can put all the water in it, and a faster boil because there is more surface area touching the burners.

 

[wormraper]

hmm, I could do a 9 0r 10 gallon pot pretty easily then. was just wondeirng if I only do 6-12 brews a year whether the $75 or so to buy the second pot would be worth the cost savings by switching to all grain

 

[wfowlks]

When I bought my 9 gallon it cost me $90. But i can only really do 5 gallon All grain, or i can do 10 gallon extract (because you really only use ~ 6 gallons). I just wasn't happy with the old pot and I like the new one because it does have the surface area to cover multiple burners. And with my 9 gallon tall pot, it took about an hour to go from mash to boil. Now with my new one it takes about 10-20 min (10 min on burner, 20 on stove). But its really up to you. People in MD also use the pots for steaming crabs and other stuff. So I do get some use out of it for that.

 

[Hopelesst]

Ok, I need some help here.

I'm working on a recipe for a 9 quart batch that will be split into 3 volumes to test flavor additions. My last (and first) stovetop all-grain batch suffered from a low efficiency that I believe was due to my mash thickness. I'm having a hard time achieving a thin mash for such a small volume of wort without exceeding my boil volume target of 3 gallons.

5.4 pounds of grain at 1.5 qt/lb (not quite as thin as I'd like) nets me 8qts, 10oz of wort after grain absorbtion. That means without over shooting my boil volume of 3 gallons I can only sparge with 3.25 quarts. This volume does not seem capable of a proper sparge.

Is there a better way I could batch sparge this?

Would it be better to no-sparge instead? If so, how much extra grain do I need to add to account in the loss of efficiency from no-sparge?

Thanks!

 

[aristurtle]

Just used this method to brew Centennial Blonde. Got about 68% efficiency. I'm very pleased with this method. I kept missing my temps on the high side, though -- strike water at 165 put my mash at 160 when I wanted 150, so I used ice cubes to cool the mash down.

 

[crookshc]

First off, big ups to Death Brewer for the perfectly detailed process. Wouldn't have been able to go all grain without it.

Second, had a question about SRM as it relates to this method. Every brew I've done using Stovetop all-grain (7 batches now) has ended up considerably darker than estimated (using Hopville). Has anyone else encountered this?

I think I remember Jamil mentioning something about how this could be a potential product of HSA. The brews are perfectly fine in every other regard. Just trying to confirm if this is inherent with this method, or if I should be looking elsewhere to address it.

Cheers!
Zack

 

[tennesseean_87]

I do everything on the stove and my beers aren't too dark.

 

[copyright1997]

Second, had a question about SRM as it relates to this method. Every brew I've done using Stovetop all-grain (7 batches now) has ended up considerably darker than estimated (using Hopville). Has anyone else encountered this?

Nope. I've done 25 batches this way, none have had this issue, including a Pilsner and things like Cream of Three Crops.

 

[GothGargoyle]

Just did my second brew using this method. I'm using 2 x 5G pots because that's what my stove can handle.

The first brew had a pretty lousy efficiency of 46%, mainly because of a small sparge volume. Trying to dunk the grain bag into the 5G pot for a sparge didn't work out - I had to remove just over 1L of water just to fit the swollen grains!

Last night what I did instead is heat a greater volume of sparge water in the second 5G pot, and when the grains had finished draining from the mash pot, I poured the mash liquid into a bucket and then put the grain bag back into the (empty) mash pot - then poured water over the grains from the sparge pot until the pot was full - then stirred and sat for 10 minutes before draining. I then repeated this with the remaining sparge water.

Ended up with an efficiency of 72.1% and spot on target volume for the boil. I then split the boil across the two 5G pots. Lose about 20% volume to the boil but I was prepared for that. Hit target SG and volume exactly.

 

[Mike37]

I REALLY want to try this method eventually, but I only have an 8 quart (2 gallon) pot. Can I do one gallon BIAB batches with it? I think that would be a fun change of pace from extracts.

 

[user 53515]

Mike37 : Yes. I've done it. Make sure you scale down your 5 gallon or 10 gallon recipies properly, though. I use Beersmith to scale.

 

[gladril]

Hi all, long time lurker on the thread, first time poster.

I've been using this method to brew all grain for about six or seven batches, and it's worked very well for me. I usually get around 75 or 80% efficiency. Due to my setup I'm only mashing about 7 to 9 pounds of grain. I typically mash for one hour, and sparge for about 10 to 15 minutes in a larger pot.

So here's where I throw out the strange question: are there ways to reduce my efficiency without watering down the wort?

I'm hoping to brew an ordinary bitter or maybe a scottish ale in the 3-4% range, and as things stand, I would have to reduce my amount of grain to 5 or 6 pounds total to get that, which seems like a ludicrous amount -- not to mention that the smaller the amount of grain used, the higher the efficiency I would expect, which could offset the reduced amount and possibly lead to astringency. Has anyone else on this thread been faced with this issue, and how have you dealt with it?

 

[Tomcat0304]

Haha, I've lost count of how many times I have read your tutorial the last few days, but today is the first time I noticed your poster! That's awesome!

 

[Oldskooler]

I'm new and always reading posts, yours are always top notch. Thanks, and keep up the good work

 

[jjw5015]

Seriously considering trying this with a smaller batch. Will a 5 gallon paint strainer work as well as the 24" by 24" bag. I'll be using a 4 gallon pot.

 

[Drookit]

Mods, Can this be a sticky like DB's other one?

 

[cstarner]

Seriously considering trying this with a smaller batch. Will a 5 gallon paint strainer work as well as the 24" by 24" bag. I'll be using a 4 gallon pot.

Yes just make sure you check to see that your grain/water will fit the pot (the bag will take some room too).

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml (third one down)

You won't be able to make any high gravity beers unless it's a partial mash.

 

[ThickHead]

Yes just make sure you check to see that your grain/water will fit the pot (the bag will take some room too).

http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml (third one down)

You won't be able to make any high gravity beers unless it's a partial mash.

Or unless another pot is added. I do full mashes for 5 gallon batches in my 7.5 gallon pot. I do 10 gallon mashes by using a second 7.5 gallon pot.

 

[smrosendahl]

I just read all the pages in about a week, bored a lot. I plan on doing some 3G SMaSH's with that. Quick question though for those that use irish moss, does the recommended amount coagulate the extra proteins that the mash doesn't filter? I know it should settle all the proteins from the traditional method, but BIAB doesn't filter it out from the mash nearly as well. Not worried about extra trub or anything, that just a given.

 

[Oldskooler]

I'm going to try this method today or tomorrow, looks great. Keep up the great posts

 

[borden]

I just read all the pages in about a week, bored a lot. I plan on doing some 3G SMaSH's with that. Quick question though for those that use irish moss, does the recommended amount coagulate the extra proteins that the mash doesn't filter? I know it should settle all the proteins from the traditional method, but BIAB doesn't filter it out from the mash nearly as well. Not worried about extra trub or anything, that just a given.

This isn't directly answering your question, but for what it's worth, I noticed no difference in clarity when I went from extract batches to stovetop BIAB using this method (using a tsp. of irish moss).

 

[smrosendahl]

I would say it leads me strongly in the right direction. Since I plan on doing 3 gallon batches, I figured I could just do 3/4 tsp. and have my bases covered. I think the people complaining about a protein layer above the trub were usually lacking irish moss, so I figured it would settle out with it. I can't do a cold crash, so I was a little worried with the few reports of it in this thread.