Dunno what I'm tasting - how do I learn?

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david58

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I am about to brew my 5th batch today (a stout), but I am realizing I don't know how to taste and understand what's going on in my beer?

I just opened a bottle of my ale, and it has a fruity kind of flavor I'm kinda bothered by - I don't know what it is...Does the beer need to age more (its only a week old in the bottle), did I primary it too long (3wks), secondary it too short (1 wk), is it infected, etc, etc?

How do I learn how to understand what I'm tasting?
 
Your beer is really green. A week is barely enough time for the flavors to come together.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)

A lot of new brewers stress out about how a beer tastes, especially if they haven't waited long enough for the beer to condition. It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.

Now as to how you "learn" to taste beer, it really is a matter of practice makes perfect. Read info and taste the beers mentioned.There are also classes to teach about off flavors in beer, using control beers (usually a commercial beer with a flavor added to simulate it.)

But to diagnose a beer, you first need to make sure that it isn't just very young, like yours is now.

Come back in 3 weeks and you will see how great your beer will be.

(Also you will find that many of us these days leave our beer in primary for 3-4 weeks, skipping secondary because it IMPROVES the flavor of our beers. And if you go that long, you don't need to secondary at all)
 
To answer your question...

You should join a club where there are experienced judges. Join them when they judge club entries and you'll get a real lesson.

Make sure you download the BJCP guidelines and do your best to understand the differences between the subcategories in a particular style. Buy singles of the suggested examples of those styles and drink them while looking at the guidelines and see if you can identify the flavors described in the guidelines.

Give your beer to someone who is experienced in judging beers. If he's "been around" he will be able to identify your off taste, whether it is just green beer or some other off flavor.

[Definately, 1 week in the bottle is not enough!]
 
Thanks for the information! I realize one week isn't long enough for maturity, but I like to taste the beer early and taste it as it ages. Carb is excellent even after one week, but I didn't know if this was too early to tell anything or not by taste except maybe it being badly infected.

I am going to join a local club, but after the first of the year. And, up here in Oregon, can't even legally have club competitions or tastings of home brew till they fix the law to where it belongs. But the idea of drinking and comparing with the judging guidelines is a good one - but, dang, I'll have to drink a lotta beer to figger this out.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it!
 
Revvy - I think you have this exact reply saved in Word format or something, and just copy/paste it. :) I swear I have seen it in at least 5 other "oh noes my beer sucks" threads.


Your beer is really green. A week is barely enough time for the flavors to come together.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)

A lot of new brewers stress out about how a beer tastes, especially if they haven't waited long enough for the beer to condition. It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.

Now as to how you "learn" to taste beer, it really is a matter of practice makes perfect. Read info and taste the beers mentioned.There are also classes to teach about off flavors in beer, using control beers (usually a commercial beer with a flavor added to simulate it.)

But to diagnose a beer, you first need to make sure that it isn't just very young, like yours is now.

Come back in 3 weeks and you will see how great your beer will be.

(Also you will find that many of us these days leave our beer in primary for 3-4 weeks, skipping secondary because it IMPROVES the flavor of our beers. And if you go that long, you don't need to secondary at all)
 
Just read Brew Chem 101 by Janson. That has really helped me understand what's going on and what is influencing the tastes. The chemistry simplified is nice - I can understand chem, but just don't want to activate the brain cells to do so (I'm busy trying to learn Graduate statistics, and must conserve brain energy...).

Janson does a good job of explaining what is causing the various tastes - really has opened my eyes.

And to the ale on the original post - am drinking a bottle now, and it is GOOD. Not just drinkable, and not special, but just solidly good. It has bottle conditioned for four weeks now, and as Revvy said, has morphed into a good brew. :mug:

Now I realize I need to keep the pipeline danged full if I am to be able to handle the wait. So, I have an Ale in the primary, a Stout in the secondary, and a Steam beer happening tonite. If I can make myself brew a batch a week for a while longer, I can get all my bottles filled and the 5 kegs I have in the garage a bit more actively involved. Gotta go buy more fermenters.....:tank:
 
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