Dubbel - Where's the cherries?

[pbarning]

I brewed up the following recipe for a dubbel that I threw together an was really looking forward to that dark Belgian candi flavor and aroma. The smell permeated from the fermenter and still lingers on some of the equipment. However, it is nowhere to be found in the finished product.

Dubbel

Style: Belgian Dubbel OG: 1.070
Type: All Grain FG: 1.017
Rating: 0.0 ABV: 6.94 %
Calories: 228 IBU's: 22.85
Efficiency: 73 % Boil Size: 7.50 Gal
Color:***24.0 SRM** Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
*
Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
(none)
*
Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Gravity Color
8.00 lbs 61.54 % Pilsner (2 Row) Bel 1.036 2.0
2.00 lbs 15.38 % Munich Malt - 20L 1.035 20.0
0.50 lbs 3.85 % Cara-Pils/Dextrine 1.033 2.0
0.50 lbs 3.85 % Caramunich Malt 1.033 56.0
1.50 lbs 11.54 % Candi Sugar, Amber 1.036 75.0
0.50 lbs 3.85 % Special B Malt 1.030 180.0
*
Hops
Amount Percentage Name Time AA %
1.50 ozs 100.00 % Fuggles 90 mins 4.00
*
Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg Trappist Ale White Labs 0500
*
Additions
(none)
*
Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 152.0°F
*Add 14.30 qt water @ 166.0°F
Medium Body Infusion Out 10 min @ 168.0°F
*Add 21.28 qt water @ 196.0°F

I added 1.5 lb of dark candi with 10 minutes left in the boil. I am thinking that this may be suspect. Also, the wlp500 can be pretty dominant flavor-wise. Any ideas of how to get that aroma and candi flavor more prominent in the final product?

NOTE: My brew program overcalculates the srm value of the candi. It actually finished at around 17.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

You're not really going to get a cherry flavor without adding cherries.

If you're looking to get that rich dubbel flavor...what temp did you ferment at?

 

[pbarning]

I fermented at 61F. I did a diacetyl rest for a few days before kegging at about 68F. The yeast actually munched it down to 1.012, which was a little lower than I hoped.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether or not there is a trick to adding the candi at any specific point that would most effictively pronounce it's flavors. Maybe adding it after primary fermentation or using a less attenuative yeast.

It is just weird how the aroma was heavily present all the way up to kegging and now it is practically gone, save for it's presence in the ABV.

 

[KeithMoonsLiver]

Those rock candi sugars aren't anything like the stuff the belgians use. Most of their dubbels are very simple grain bills with the dark fruit flavors coming from the syrup they have. A lot of homebrewers try to replicate those flavors by using all sorts of intricate combinations of specialty malts, and while it can be good beer its not the same end result IMO. I've yet to try it myself but I've heard of people having good success getting more complex flavors by using the dark syrups from http://www.darkcandi.com/. I'm not sure if it's the exact same stuff as the trappists use but it's much closer than the rock candi stuff.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Fermenting at that low of a temperature hinders the Belgian yeasts from producing the level of esters you normally see in Belgian beers.

That rock candi stuff is not very different from basic table sugar or beet sugar. As Keith pointed out the dark syrup is more likely to give you flavor from the sugar. The amber stuff you used probably gives off more color than flavor.

 

[CopperHillBrewery]

Fermenting at that low of a temperature hinders the Belgian yeasts from producing the level of esters you normally see in Belgian beers.

+1 If you start low and let your fermentation free rise to around 68 F and keep it there for around a week or so, you would get more ester production. I have done this with a Dubbel to get that nice plum/cherry aroma. Another factor, although small, is the type of glass you use to drink the Dubbel. Using a goblet/snifter/wine glass would let you experience more of that aroma than say a tumbler or pint glass.

 

[pbarning]

The yeast profile is pretty solid. Banana/clove traces. I fermented in the lower range to avoid fusels. I made a tripel that fermented in the upper 60's and, while I enjoyed it, I wanted to limit the fusel taste with the dubbel.

I did use syrup. It tasted great and smelled great. My goal at this point is just to figure out where it went during the kegging process.

The consensus seems to be, at this point, that a higher fermentation would have been necessary for the candi/syrup to endure post-fermentation and play a more dominant role in the final product.