Dry Rice Sugar use

[naa10104]

Hello,

Having trouble finding any information on how to use this product. I believe it is used to raise the OG for a higher alcohol content. If so, at what point in the boil would you add it ? Also, says 1lb. adds roughly 1% PA ... is PA percent alcohol ? Thanks for any info.

Steve

 

[glutarded-chris]

I would see if you can find what the PPG contribution it has. Easier factor to work with.
If you are using it with an extract brew then I think the point you add it depends on if you are doing a full volume boil or a partial boil. If you are doing a partial volume boil then you want to keep the wart gravity within reason for hop utilization. In that case you might want to use it at the end. If you are doing a full volume boil it may no matter when you put it in. If you are doing all grain and you are just using it at the end if you get less than desired yield, then it goes in at the end after you have taken a gravity reading and have calculated how much you need to hit the desired OG.

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Your level of knowledge is much higher than mine. I use all extracts, ie. Sorghum, Honey, Rice syrup etc. I do a full boil (?), one hour .. if I have the right terminology. I would use this simply to increase ABV, so I guess I could add it at the beginning of the boil along with the Sorghum, Honey etc. Does that make sense ? Thanks very much.

 

[glutarded-chris]

I was referring to a "full volume" boil. People that do not have a kettle large enough to boil the entire volume of wart will boil what they can and then add the rest of the water to the fermentation vessel. For a 5 gallon batch for instance you might need to start the boil with 6.5 gallons so that you end up with 5.5 gallons to put in the fermentor. If you only have a 4 gallon kettle, that won't work. If you boil 3 gallons in the 4 gallon kettle and put all of your fermentables in at the start, then you are boiling at a really high gravity which is not nice for the hops. You then boil with only part of the fermentables at the beginning so that the boiling gravity is at about 1.030 to 1.040 and add the rest at the end right at flame out.

My experience was that sorghum, rice syrup and rice solids finish relatively thin, so I always targeted 1.060 OG for mouthfeel. That resulted in a beer that tasted and felt good to me but was high in ABV. I was therefore adding ingredients for taste and feel and not trying to get extra ABV. I would always use 0.5 lb maltodextrin to a 5 gallon batch to help with the mouthfeel without adding to the finished ABV.

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Again thanks for your time. I am new to this and have only done app. 7 five gallon gluten free batches. All have turned out pretty well ... all drinkable. A typical batch for me is start out with a 3 gal boil adding adding all fermentables at beginning and Hops at pre-determinded times during the boil per instructions. Bittering earlier in boil and flavoring later. After hour of boiling I cool the Wort and pour it into a 7 gal Carboy that I have added app. 2 gal.s of cool water too. I end up with a total of 5 gallons of Wort. Once at proper temp. I pitch yeast and go on with a 2-3 week period of time in Carboy fermenting/conditioning. Does that all sound reasonable ?

I have used Maltodextrin once before but based on your recommendation and other info. I am going to start using it more regularly. So, it sounds like you recommend adding some of the fermentables at flameout. To keep it simple ... would you suggest that I hold a certain % of fermentables until flameout ? I am going to brew a batch next that will have 9 lbs. of dark Sorghum, maybe some honey and Rice sugar. Would it be adviseable to add half at beginningof boil and half at flameout ? Also, any recommendation on when to add Rice sugar ? Can find no instructions on that. Lastly, am a big fan of a Hoppy/Citrus IPA ... used to drink that before Celiac diagnosis. Any advice on how to brew for that result Gluten free ? Thanks very much !!!!

 

[glutarded-chris]

I would have the main boil gravity somewhere near 1.040 for 3 gallon boil that would be about on 3.3 lb can of BriesSweet sorghum syrup. Could also add a pound of one of the other ingredients at the beginning. Add everything else at the end.
For a sorghum based brew you are fighting the "sorghum citrus twang". My preference was hop forward with hops that pair well with sorghum. Cascade and Amarillo are good choices. Personally, I did not like earthy hops like E.K. Goldings.
I always steeped a pound of specialty grain to get some extra grain character. You just do that in a gallon or so of 160F water for 30 minutes before the boil.
I found I preferred to have a pound of medium or dark Belgian candy syrup and some 100% buckwheat honey to balance out some of the sorghum twang and then some maltodextrin for mouthfeel.

An example of a pale or amble ale:
(optional) Steep a pound of cracked crystal millet and/or buckwheat. Steep roasted grain for more color and flavor of an amber. Steeped grain add very little gravity contribution.
1 lb Belgian Candy Syrup (~40 ppg)
0.5 lb 100% buckwheat honey (~40 ppg)
0.5 lb maltodextin (~40 ppg)
6 lb BriesSweet sorghum syrup (~37ppg)

That should end up at about 1.060 OG for 5 gallons of pitching volume. If you use two 3.3 cans of BriesSweet, then you would just end up with 5.5 gallons in the fermentor to maintain 1.060 OG. I like to add a little bit extra into the fermentor so that after racking off the trub, you get closer to 5 gallons of finished product.

I liked Safale US-05 or Saflager 34/70 fermented between 65F and 72F.

I would also often dry hop to add even more hop character but that adds some complexity.

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Thanks very much for your responses and detail, very much appreciated. Will use all of this information in next batch ! Take care.

Steve

 

[naa10104]

Hello, Made a batch today following most of your recommendations… different recipe but similar. Hops in bag and instead of pouring from kettle thru funnel strainer into Carboy … I stirred very rapidly and got a good Vortex going then let sit for 10 minutes before siphoning from side of kettle. Sediment seemed much worse than with funnel
Method. Question…. Poured some of final 5 gal sample into beaker and tested for SG for a result of 1.090. Could this be to all the sediment in the beaker?? Recipe had 9 pounds Sorghum Syrup, 1/2 pound of cane sugar, and 1/2 pound of maltosextrin, 1/2 pound of rice sugar. Pitched 2 11g packages of IPA yeast … have to wait and see what happens. Concerned about the high OG and all the sediment. Thanks

 

[glutarded-chris]

Using sugars and syrups, it is usually really easy to hit very close to calculated numbers. My guess is that your sample was not mixed well.

To calculate the gravity contributions of each ingredient addition for the final volume:
ppg x (pounds of ingredient) / (final volume) = gravity contribution

Example for your sorghum syrup: 37 x 9 / 5 = 66.6 gravity points.
Just your sorghum syrup put you past my recommendation.

Gravity point analysis of your batch:
66.6 from 9 lb of 37ppg sorghum syrup
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg cane sugar
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg rice sugar
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg maltodextrin
Total: 78 gravity points, so 1.078 is what I would have expected in your final vessel.

Did you take your gravity reading from the final 5 gallon vessel after stirring, or did you take it from the wart going into the vessel before mixing with water to top off to 5 gallon? Another thought, was 9 lb of sorghum syrup used or 3 full cans of 3.3 lb which would have put you closer to 1.085?

I would have adjusted the amount of sorghum syrup to get to 1.060 pitching gravity. So:
48 from 6.5 lb of 37ppg sorghum syrup
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg cane sugar
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg rice sugar
4 from 0.5 lb of 40ppg maltodextrin
Total: 60 gravity points.

See if you agree with my numbers

The sediment should be fine. Make sure you have a good blow off tube because if you are fermenting at room temp, you are likely going to get violent fermentation once it gets going. If you are going to ferment for longer than 2 weeks, you might consider racking to a second vessel with less head space to get it off the trub. Lots of debate on that. Some say oxygen contamination that you get with transfer to a second vessel is worse than leaving on the trub and other say the opposite.

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

I did take the measurement from the full 5 gal.s in the carboy, (7 gal. size Carboy). Checked the Sorghum, 3 lb. containers x 3 = 9 lbs. As far as mixing goes. I started out with app. 1 gal. of water in the carboy. I gave the Wort in kettle,(app. 2.5-3 gal.'s) vigorous mixing with large beer mixing spoon with slots in it to aerate. Then started the Vortex very rapidly and let settle for 10 mins. Then transfered from kettle to Carboy using autosiphon with app. 4 feet of hose, kettle was app. two feet above Carboy. Once wort was transferred I topped off carboy with app. 1-2 gal.'s of water poured in from pitcher. I know for sure that there is a total of 5 gal.'s in carboy as it has reference marks. Took sample out of carboy using wine thief placing sample into cylinder shaped beaker with Hygrometer floating and wort at app. 7 oz level.

There was so much sediment/matter in sample I though maybe that would effect the OG reading. I let it sit for a good 30 minutes but the reading did not change.

I was leaning towards not transfering to a secondary for the reasons you described. I am planning on dry hopping in the carboy at app. 4 days in. Your thoughts on when I should dry hop ? Also, I was planning on leaving in Carboy for a full 3 weeks ?

It is fermenting very well, attached two photos, first is app. 1 hour after yeast was pitched and second is app. 21 hours. Right now about a bubble a second. Pitched two 11 g packages of Verdant IPA yeast. Room temperature at carboy is app. 66.5 to 67.1 degrees.

Any suggestions on how to leave as much sediment/trubb behind when I transfer fron Carboy to bottling bucket ?

As always thanks very much for your advice !!

steve

 

[glutarded-chris]

Your process seems pretty spot on. You might want to check calibration of your hydrometer with fresh water to make sure it is not out of calibration. I purchased a few that were bad and had to bring them back.
A lot of sediment is pretty normal. It reduces the amount of finished product so I typically compensated by planning my brews to leave 5.5 or 6 gallons so that when I racked it off of the trub I ended up with closer to 5 gallons. Making sure the carboy has plenty of time to settle in the location where you are going to rack to the keg or bottling bucket helps a lot! Of course, having something to wedge the carboy gently to one side at the end of racking to get that last bit before the yeast gets sucked into the racking cane helps.

I really like the big mouth bubbler carboys for dry hopping and for ease in cleaning. Also safer. Google "my carboy is trying to kill me".

Letting the primary fermentation finish before dry hopping is best and 4 days seems about right. That is what I always did. Honestly, I don't think it matters a lot if you rack it off the trub after two weeks or not. Depending on how you suspend the dry hop bag you have to be careful inserting the racking tube to not dislodge a bunch of sediment.

Good luck and post your results!

 

[naa10104]

Hello,

Is an OG of 1.090 even possible or would you say it was an inaccurate reading ?

Wedging something under the carboy means you would put the autosiphon pick up tub on the high side of the carboy so you don't suck up trubb ?

What does "rack it off the trubb" mean ?

Dry hopping is more for aroma than taste, right ?

Fermentation still looks very good. One bubble every three seconds now and a nice thick Kraussen (?) layer. Smells very good also. Thanks again.

steve

 

[naa10104]

FYI, I checked the calibration on the hydrometer and it is right on. Also checked the temp of the water I used to make sure that was not a factor. Thanks