Dry hopping: Primary vs. secondary

[BigJay13]

Hmmm... Never heard that, even from the pros. Besides, opening up the fermenter mid way thru primary to throw hops in just lets oxygen back in... kinda defeats the purpose of airlock?

From How to Brew:


Hops can also be added to the fermenter for increased hop aroma in the final beer. This is called "dry hopping" and is best done late in the fermentation cycle. If the hops are added to the fermenter while it is still actively bubbling, then a lot of the hop aroma will be carried away by the carbon dioxide. It is better to add the hops (usually about a half ounce per 5 gallons) after bubbling has slowed or stopped and the beer is going through the conditioning phase prior to bottling. The best way to utilize dry hopping is to put the hops in a secondary fermenter, after the beer has been racked away from the trub and can sit a couple of weeks before bottling, allowing the volatile oils to diffuse into the beer.


I'd like to know what pros are putting hops right at the beginning of primary fermentation. I've heard of putting them in a few points above fg which gives good results but definitely not at the beginning. If the yeast is active it will chew up any oxygen.

 

[te-wa]

glad i searched for this info. my plan (according to the advice) is to primary until ferm. stops, wait a few days to be sure, then dump 3oz of pellets into a DIPA. this is due to the equipment i have on hand, that is to say in my normal primary there is a RIS awaiting a cold crash so all i have to primary in is a Better Bottle (6 gal) and i have decided to take the advice:
1) after ferm stops in primary, add hop pellets. no bags, no mesh. dump 'em in.
2) dry hop for about 5 days.
3) cold crash for 3 days @ 35 degrees. then bottle.

sound about right?

 

[BigJay13]

glad i searched for this info. my plan (according to the advice) is to primary until ferm. stops, wait a few days to be sure, then dump 3oz of pellets into a DIPA. this is due to the equipment i have on hand, that is to say in my normal primary there is a RIS awaiting a cold crash so all i have to primary in is a Better Bottle (6 gal) and i have decided to take the advice:
1) after ferm stops in primary, add hop pellets. no bags, no mesh. dump 'em in.
2) dry hop for about 5 days.
3) cold crash for 3 days @ 35 degrees. then bottle.

sound about right?

Sounds like it will work! I can never seem to get all of the pellets away from the finished beer. This time around I dry hopped with a mix of pellets in a bag and whole cones floating. We'll see how it goes....

 

[te-wa]

cool! i think im gonna use a small mesh bag (like bridal veil fabric) and a hair tie to catch the clumps as they come out of the siphon.

 

[brewfan86]

Would cold crashing the yeast before dry hopping mess with your beers ability to carbonate properly once your ready to bottle??

 

[EyePeeA]

In response to the title of this thread, I usually do both. I found that I get more aroma this way than adding all of the dryhops at once.

Assuming 4 total oz. loose pellet dryhops split into 2 oz. additions:

3-4 days dryhop in primary
5-6 days dryhop in secondary (cold crash w/gelatin last 2-3 days)

When racking from primary to secondary, and then secondary to bottling bucket, wrap a sanitized nylon mesh bag around the auto-siphon to filter out the trub.

 

[FatsSchindee]

When racking from primary to secondary, and then secondary to bottling bucket, wrap a sanitized nylon mesh bag around the auto-siphon to filter out the trub.

I I tried this once, and the mesh (I used muslin) sack really introduced a lot of air into the auto-siphon... It was quite "bubbly" as it rack into the secondary. I worried about oxidation. Just bottled the beer, though, so I it hasn't conditioned yet. It's only 8 beers (from a one gal batch) though, so it probably won't last long enough to get oxidized off-flavors, I'm hoping...

Getting ready to dry hop my next batch, and am wondering about method. Have decided to just do it in primary, but am wondering if I should just throw them in loose (pellets, 1 oz), or put them in a bag. And if in a bag, should I put sanitized marbles in it so it sinks down? Thanks for any advice...

 

[RM-MN]

It wasn't the mesh of the muslin bag that introduced the air, it was the seal of the piston of the autosiphon. The muslin bag was a bit too tight of mesh and it cause the air to be sucked around the piston. One possible solution for this is to put a little water or beer down the opening at the top of the autosiphon so it would improve the seal. Another possibility is to use a nylon or polyester mesh bag as it may let the beer through with less restriction.

 

[FatsSchindee]

It wasn't the mesh of the muslin bag that introduced the air, it was the seal of the piston of the autosiphon. The muslin bag was a bit too tight of mesh and it cause the air to be sucked around the piston. One possible solution for this is to put a little water or beer down the opening at the top of the autosiphon so it would improve the seal. Another possibility is to use a nylon or polyester mesh bag as it may let the beer through with less restriction.

Good call. I do have some 1 gal nylon paint strainer bags that would probably work better than the muslin, then. Thx for the tip...

 

[langdonk1]

Too many yeast in suspension, maybe

 

[chainlife]

I like to pour my new wort over last batches yeast cake cause I'm cheap n lazy, so I'm currently cold crashing my primary. I plan on brew day to rack my primary onto hops for a week or two and just dump my new wort on 1/3 of the left over yeast cake/trub in the primary & repeat in a few weeks


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jbaysurfer]

Advantage of primary is you didn't waste your time and risk of oxygenation and infection by using a secondary. I'd only consider a secondary if I wasn't going to keg the beer (I dry hop most beers in the keg) and I wanted to keep the yeast. Another thought is that IIRC it is ideal to dry hop right at the tail end of fermentation so the CO2 can scrub out any introduced oxygen or something like that, so dry hopping in the keg like I do is not necessarily the best thing, just works for me being lazy.

If you're dryhopping in the keg, you can sanitize your keg, put the dryhops in, seal it up and flush it with C02. This will get rid of any introduced oxygen that came along with the hops. Rack on top of them (and under the C02, which is heavy and will hang around in the keg when you re-open the lid for racking.

Another technique that I've seen, but not yet tried, is to rack it through the liquid out post with the lid closed but the relieve valve unscrewed just enough so the gas displaced by the beer can escape as the keg fills up.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Tossed the hops in a few days ago. Still smells ok, but is it supposed to look like this?

View attachment 64251

Didn't cold crash it before hand due to lack of fridge space

Yes. That's healthy beer.

 

[jbaysurfer]

This isn't a great idea because the co2 will drive off the aromatics of the hops. Not to mention hop oils will coat the yeast cell walls making it difficult for them to get things in/out of the cell. Just throw in the dry hops after fermentation has stopped.

I'm not convinced there's any proof or science behind what you just said. I've heard the c02 driving off aromatics a bunch, but I don't really buy that. The aromatics come from the oils, and the oils aren't getting driven off by C02 bubbling through an airlock, merely gases.

The other thing...well I'm not saying you're wrong...and maybe I am misinformed...but I've never heard or read any such thing. There's far more hop oils in the wort by what happened in the boil kettle then there are introduced by a dryhop addition, and I've never noticed yeast being more fickel, petering out, or difficult to manage in hoppy vs. non-hoppy beers.

 

[FlyBoyKnight]

I'm not convinced there's any proof or science behind what you just said. I've heard the c02 driving off aromatics a bunch, but I don't really buy that. The aromatics come from the oils, and the oils aren't getting driven off by C02 bubbling through an airlock, merely gases.

The other thing...well I'm not saying you're wrong...and maybe I am misinformed...but I've never heard or read any such thing. There's far more hop oils in the wort by what happened in the boil kettle then there are introduced by a dryhop addition, and I've never noticed yeast being more fickel, petering out, or difficult to manage in hoppy vs. non-hoppy beers.

My first technical post relating to brewing but I think I am ready lol. Might as well resurrect an old (yet still interesting) thread in the process.

After a bit of research, I found this article that explains essential oil volatility.

http://craftbeeracademy.com/the-science-behind-hops-part-2-essential-oils/

To paraphrase:

"The major essential oils we are talking about here are:
Myrcene
Humulene
Caryophyllene

All three essential oils listed here are very volatile in air, which means they disperse themselves easily into air. This is what happens when you smell the aroma of anything, especially beer. You are smelling the volatile compounds breaking down. For this reason, Myrcene is actually used in the perfume industry to help as an intermediary in perfume aromas."

Basically, it is not the Oxygen vs CO2 aspect of waiting to dry hop until after fermentation tapers off, it is the cycling of gas (CO2 or oxygen) out of the fermenter through the airlock that will essentially "carry away" some of the aromatic properties that the beer would have.

Due to the hihgly volatile nature of these three compounds, they disperse very easily into the air and if dry hops are added in the beginning, because gases are leaving the fermenter at a much faster rate than later on, more essential oil aromas are being carried away due to their highly volatile nature in air (CO2 or normal air)

FWIW

 

[jbaysurfer]

Flyboyknight:
That's a great post. Thanks for sharing your research. It doesn't address my second concern (quoted) but it certainly addresses my first question. It seems to me that it creates solid reasoning behind dryhopping in the keg so that the aromatic gases can be driven back into solution while force carbing. Would you agree with that?

Also for BigJay: I stand corrected!

 

[Bensiff]

Flyboyknight:
That's a great post. Thanks for sharing your research. It doesn't address my second concern (quoted) but it certainly addresses my first question. It seems to me that it creates solid reasoning behind dryhopping in the keg so that the aromatic gases can be driven back into solution while force carbing. Would you agree with that?

Also for BigJay: I stand corrected!

So my laziness pays off, and my IPAs go so fast oxygenation doesn't have a chance to impact things. As for as the hop oil coating the yeast cells, I have never heard of it causing problems during fermentation. I have read that the issue comes with subsequent generations if you choose to repitch the yeast. But right now I'm not in the mood to track a source down on that so maybe someone else will.

 

[erick0619]

Google brulosopher he does an experiment where he dry hops one beer in primary and the other in secondary it should give you a pretty good idea of the results.


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