Dough-in Time?

[FatDragon]

I've been wondering how long everybody takes to dough-in and how it might affect mash temps to dough-in faster or slower, as well as whether I could speed up the process without risking low efficiency from doughballs.

My dough-in time seems to be something like 1.5 pounds of grain per minute, but I progressively slow down because I feel like I need to stir each new pour of grain (I use a 1-liter measuring cup to scoop and dump from my bucket) more thoroughly as the mash thickens. I tend to undershoot my mash temps on most beers, but hit both batches of my wheat beer on the head, probably because the grainbill was relatively light so I was done in five or six minutes each time.

How long does it take you to dough-in, and how do you feel it effects your mash temps?

 

[JayDubWill]

I preheat my mash tun cooler with a few gallons of boiling water for 15 minutes or so to reduce the chance of missing my mash temp. As far as doughing in goes, it probably takes me a minute or less. I pour and stir, pour and stir, then stir for about 3-4 minutes to break up any dough balls. I also batch sparge and stir again when I add the a sparge water, but I've never encountered and dry dough balls at this point.

 

[hopkincr]

My LHBS puts the grains after milling in a brown paper sack, so I just pour directly from that, with stirring, pretty quickly. 8 lbs. in less than a minute with much stirring. Stir for a bit more to make sure all is well and cover with blankets.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[wilserbrewer]

Don't over think it, I just pour all the grain, usually 15 - 20 lbs into the strike water all at once and then stir well, never a problem with dough-balls.

This idea of adding a little grain, stirring, adding a little more grain, stirring...,just seems laborious and pointless.

With the thinner mashes doing full volume BIAB dough balls seem extinct.

 

[Zubius]

3 seconds to dump 16Lbs of grain, stir well for a few minutes. Done..

 

[SeeMont]

I don't spend a lot of time, stir till it's smooth. Old question,
Water in first, and then add grain ?
OR
Grain in first and then add the water ?

Myself I Pre-heat Tun. then add a gallon of hot strike water, dump the grain then add rest of strike water, adjusting for final temperature. This if for a five gallon batch and between 9 to 14 lbs of grain.

 

[haeffnkr]

Don't over think it, I just pour all the grain, usually 15 - 20 lbs into the strike water all at once and then stir well, never a problem with dough-balls.

This idea of adding a little grain, stirring, adding a little more grain, stirring...,just seems laborious and pointless.

+1

I dump 20 pounds of grain and stir and wait 45 minutes to pull the bag.

thanks Kevin

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 to all above.

When you calculate the strike temperature for a given volume/mass of grain, it expects all the grain to be dumped in at once so the final temperature of the mash is spot on where you want it to be, plus an extra 2 degrees or so which you will lose while stirring with the lid off.

Pouring a quart of grain every minute into lots of water that is much hotter than the target mash temperature will start denaturing enzymes. Not a good practice.

 

[stpug]

Same as most above, pour fast while stirring and am done "doughing in" in a minute or less. I give another minute of stirring to see how my mash temp settles out, at which point I make an adjustment if needed, and seal up the cooler.

 

[FatDragon]

+1 to all above.

When you calculate the strike temperature for a given volume/mass of grain, it expects all the grain to be dumped in at once so the final temperature of the mash is spot on where you want it to be, plus an extra 2 degrees or so which you will lose while stirring with the lid off.

Pouring a quart of grain every minute into lots of water that is much hotter than the target mash temperature will start denaturing enzymes. Not a good practice.

So that might explain why my beers tend to end higher than intended?

Glad I asked, or I might have continued doing it wrong...

 

[ArcLight]

BIAB lets you crush tighter. You still need to break up the dough balls, but the dough in time is much less with tiny grain particles. I get good efficient by plopping in the grain bag and stirring for a few minutes.

 

[FatDragon]

BIAB lets you crush tighter. You still need to break up the dough balls, but the dough in time is much less with tiny grain particles. I get good efficient by plopping in the grain bag and stirring for a few minutes.

So you put the grain in your bag and just plop it in that way? I've thought about that, but never did it for the same reason I added my grains to the mash slowly instead of all at once. This is blowing my mind - my next brewday can't come too soon!

 

[wilserbrewer]

So you put the grain in your bag and just plop it in that way?

I have done it both ways, it doesn't really matter. I prefer to put the bag in the pot, and dump the grain in all at once and stir well.

If you add the grain to the bag, it is a little messy, as some grain dust will fall through the bottom of the bag.

 

[ArcLight]

So you put the grain in your bag and just plop it in that way? I've thought about that, but never did it for the same reason I added my grains to the mash slowly instead of all at once. This is blowing my mind - my next brewday can't come too soon!

I grind directly into my bag. Afterwards I pat the bag a bunch, to get the dust out, which would probably end up in the trub.

I tried pouring in grain, and still got dough balls, plus that grain was exposed to hot water. When I plop in the bag, it lowers the water temperature faster to the targeted mash temperature.

 

[HBC]

My grain bill is usually 10-15lbs per 5-gallon.. and I am all in within 5-minutes or less.. with 0-dough balls. Constant poor of grain, no stopping, but slow steady trickle of grain. I have super fine grind.

 

[Calichusetts]

Just dump it...no need to wait. If you are concerned with dough balls then thin out your water-to-grain ratio. Never even knew dough balls were a real thing until I went under 1.25qts-per-gallon.

 

[GuyBob]

Hopefully somewhat related but is there a simple way of calculating what the strike water should be per lbs of grain. Also if you are following an all grain recipe should you add more grain to that recipe? I am newer to all BIAB and working with a system designed to do full volume mash for 5 gallon batches.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[FatDragon]

Hopefully somewhat related but is there a simple way of calculating what the strike water should be per lbs of grain. Also if you are following an all grain recipe should you add more grain to that recipe? I am newer to all BIAB and working with a system designed to do full volume mash for 5 gallon batches.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

There are calculators out there that will run the numbers for you, but essentially you need to determine your target pre-boil volume (i.e. your post-boil volume + boil-off for however long you're boiling), then figure out how much water gets left in each pound of grain when you're done mashing and squeezing the grain bag, and add that on top of your pre-boil volume.

So your strike water volume should be your pre-boil volume plus your water lost to the grains. I sparge my grain bag in most of my brewdays, so I reduce my strike water volume by the amount I'll be sparging and increase the strike temperature as necessary to compensate.

Finally, you don't need more grain for BIAB; the amount of grain you need is determined by your efficiency, not your brewing method. If you find that your efficiency with BIAB brewing is low, you'll want to either improve your technique or increase your grainbill, but in general, BIAB brewing can be just as efficient as traditional mash systems.

 

[wilserbrewer]

.... is there a simple way of calculating

Simple BIAB Calculator

http://www.simplebiabcalculator.com/

Your first few batches, you may have to guess at boil off, trub volume etc.
For a standard 5 gal gravity batch, likely 7 - 8 gallons to start.

 

[GuyBob]

Great. Thanks for awesome info!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[paperairplane]

I grind into my bag, bag goes into basket and whole thing goes in the water. Give it a stir and done.

 

[FatDragon]

Did my first all-at-once dough-in a couple days ago. Efficiency was 10-15% higher than I usually get, but the malt was much higher quality than I'm used to, so I don't know if I got better conversion from the process or just had better malt to begin with. I'll have a preliminary FG in a few days as I'm fermenting my gravity sample, then in a couple weeks I'll have FG's from the four different yeasts I'm trying out on this wort, so we'll see if I get better attenuation this way as well.

I still need to try this method mashing with my regular grains to see if the efficiency difference was grain or process, but one thing at a time.