Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack

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I am surprised to see that tape work. I tried that when I first had my brew master (before they came out with the heat option) and I could never get one large enough to sustain temps much less raise them in my garage. I am not at home but from memory there was a very small vertical distance between say the tops of the legs and the bottom of the handles where I could wrap a heater all the way around and keep it in contact with the barrel portion of say 6".

I actually went to home depot and bought a pipe heater product, cut open the thermostat and removed it and used a controller to measure the temps and turn on and off the Pipe heater. I just used foil tape to apply it to the barrel. Messy but it worked well till I got the heater, now I just use that.

Did you use insulation above the heater? If not the majority just went into the environment.

I used about 1-1/2 feet of the 20 Watt per foot wrap under insolation. Ignoring the heat loss to the environment I should be able to raise the temperature of 12 gallons of wort 1°F every hour. Of course some heat is lost, and as the temp is raised more and more heat is lost.

When I have a fermenter free I'll attempt to remember to fill it with room temp water, raise the setpoint to 100°F or so and let the data logger run. :ban:

Capture.JPG
 
A couple questions:

Anyone have any recommendations on better tubing for the FTSS/Glycol Chiller set up that doesn't create massive amounts of condensation? I'm trying to not use any hardware store-bought insulation (don't want the tubing to be too clunky).

Also, has anyone cold-crashed on their glycol system yet? I've been cold-crashing a stout for the past 24 hours down to 40ºF (ambient temp 70ºF) and the glycol chiller/FTSS pump are running quite a bit. Is this normal? Should I be running this machine/pump that much?
 
A couple questions:

Anyone have any recommendations on better tubing for the FTSS/Glycol Chiller set up that doesn't create massive amounts of condensation? I'm trying to not use any hardware store-bought insulation (don't want the tubing to be too clunky).

Also, has anyone cold-crashed on their glycol system yet? I've been cold-crashing a stout for the past 24 hours down to 40ºF (ambient temp 70ºF) and the glycol chiller/FTSS pump are running quite a bit. Is this normal? Should I be running this machine/pump that much?

I have my fittings with a 3/8 to 1/2" reducer then a quick disconnect. Not what you ask for but I used 1/2" silicone tubing and insulated with 1/2" pipe insulation... still very flexible. Some insulation removed for the pic.

I regularly cold crash (3) conicals to 33°F using my home made glycol chiller. Yes the chiller will cycle more at lower temps.

2016-10-03 22.59.57.jpg
 
A couple questions:

Anyone have any recommendations on better tubing for the FTSS/Glycol Chiller set up that doesn't create massive amounts of condensation? I'm trying to not use any hardware store-bought insulation (don't want the tubing to be too clunky).

Also, has anyone cold-crashed on their glycol system yet? I've been cold-crashing a stout for the past 24 hours down to 40ºF (ambient temp 70ºF) and the glycol chiller/FTSS pump are running quite a bit. Is this normal? Should I be running this machine/pump that much?


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Siliconehose.com silicone heater hose, correct ID no condensation, less expensive.
 
A couple questions:

Anyone have any recommendations on better tubing for the FTSS/Glycol Chiller set up that doesn't create massive amounts of condensation? I'm trying to not use any hardware store-bought insulation (don't want the tubing to be too clunky).

Also, has anyone cold-crashed on their glycol system yet? I've been cold-crashing a stout for the past 24 hours down to 40ºF (ambient temp 70ºF) and the glycol chiller/FTSS pump are running quite a bit. Is this normal? Should I be running this machine/pump that much?


View attachment 372455View attachment 372456View attachment 372457
Siliconehose.com silicone heater hose, correct ID no condensation, less expensive.
Cold crashing this weekend.
 
Ha, no worries. Thanks for the feedback! What's the actual ID? Can't recall off the top of my head. Also, did you get those disconnects from the site, as well?


.380 their product HH-038 think I got 30' for 20$ and free shipping. Connectors off site mentioned earlier in this topic. Dsshepard I believe.
 
Can you send me the actual link of the 0.38 hose? I'm not seeing it on the site? Looks to be .3750, is that close enough?


For some reason the forum won't let me post the link to the hose. It's located in their heater hose section and costs $2.84 per foot.
 
Looks to me that they just converted a window a/c or similar and added a box around the evaporator. I may be wrong though.
 
Can anyone suggest a method of cleaning their Chronicals with having a glycol setup? I have a couple 7G regular Chronicals (not brewmaster's) with a glycol setup and taking careful measure to take off the glycol tubing and carefully clean the chill coils without spilling glycol within the coils is rather irritating...
 
Can anyone suggest a method of cleaning their Chronicals with having a glycol setup? I have a couple 7G regular Chronicals (not brewmaster's) with a glycol setup and taking careful measure to take off the glycol tubing and carefully clean the chill coils without spilling glycol within the coils is rather irritating...

What I have been doing to clean my 14g conicals is to heat enough water in my kettle to fill the conical. I will heat the water up to 180 degrees and pump it in with a chugger pump. Then I just let the water and PBW work its magic for a few hours/overnight. The next day the only thing left behind is usually a small ring at the top which can be wiped clean with a sponge. Rinse and done.

I just got the CIP ball from SS Brewtech so I am looking forward to trying that next... less water required.
 
Do you have a link to the ones you're using? Their website is a bit confusing.

I use the open flow connectors from Collection 3, females on hoses, males on vessels and pumps. You can use shut-off connectors in locations that you want to disconnect and not lose fluid in the tubing.
 
Went to the Craft Beer and Brewing retreat in Colorado earlier this month and SS Brewtech supplied the fermenters we used, 1/2 barrel Brewmaster series....these are very nice fermenters.
 
Wondering people's thoughts on this as a chiller:

http://penguinchillers.com/

I asked Penguin about cooling a glycol bath to 25-30F, here's their response:

Yes, you can use glycol, but the chiller isn't capable of hitting those temps. It maxing out around 35-40. We typically recommend them for application of 50F+. We are currently working on a colder version to hit 15F-20F, but that product is still being developed.
Thanks,
Eric Petty
Penguin Chillers
 
I'm just going to use hose clamps.

I got the hose recommended earlier and it is thick. While spendy it will be worth it not to have condensation.

Now do we have to use Glycol? Wouldn't RV/camper antifreeze ( the stuff you put in the plumbing water lines over the winter to make sure they don't freeze ) work just as well and be a lot cheaper? Am I missing something?
 
Camper antifreeze 1. isn't food safe and 2. turns to "slush" way before freezing and expanding. OK for campers, not OK to pump
 
What does food safe have to do with it? It never comes in contact with the beer?

I gotcha on the slushy pumping thing tho.

Anyone got a cheap connect for glycol or an idea how to find it locally?
 
Did you use insulation above the heater? If not the majority just went into the environment.

I used about 1-1/2 feet of the 20 Watt per foot wrap under insolation. Ignoring the heat loss to the environment I should be able to raise the temperature of 12 gallons of wort 1°F every hour. Of course some heat is lost, and as the temp is raised more and more heat is lost.

When I have a fermenter free I'll attempt to remember to fill it with room temp water, raise the setpoint to 100°F or so and let the data logger run. :ban:

I filled one of the fermenters with 10 gallons of 69°F water and let the heater run for about 9 hours. Time vs temp is shown below. I estimated I had 30W of heating, calculated out to 31W and about 1°F of heating every 45 minutes, fairly consistent heating across the range. :mug:

Chart.JPG


math.JPG
 
I'm not trying to start a flame war, but I do believe there needs to be some clarification regarding propylene glycol because I'm seeing some information disseminated here that even if it is well-intentioned is a bit misleading.

Propylene glycol is GRAS-certified (generally-regarded as safe) by the FDA. Ethylene glycol is toxic, pure propylene is not. The only reason PG would ever be toxic would be other additives and there's the rub when it is suggested to use inhibited versions of this.

Far as I know, USP would indicate something has gone to the lengths of certification to be used as a direct food additive. It can have the identical make up as a non-USP grade but the non-USP grade was simply not manufactured or inspected under conditions which would be used to manufacture your Dr. Pepper or KY-Jelly. It may not be appropriate for recirculating systems. If you look at the GP at Tractor Supply it is for helping to cure ketosis in cattle. It may well lack properties suitable for recirculating systems.

In a previous lifetime, I was a regional manager for a chemical company which provided chemical and analytical services for HVAC chemicals for large commercial and industrial cooling and heating systems. That was 15 years back so forgive me if I've forgotten a few things. No I am not a chemist and I don't have a CE degree, I was on the marketing end of the business. I had to know enough about what the chemicals do, how to dose them, and what precautions there were with any given blend but I could not tell you which way the electrons are spinning that is the job of the CE's.

Propolene glycol for closed loop HVAC systems may use sodium nitrite or yellow metal inhibitors like tolytriazole because heating and cooling systems do have a combination of ferrous and non-ferrous metals. Sodium nitrite is commonly used as a pacifier for ferrous metals and to my knowledge on these beer line powerpacks we are using there is nothing ferrous in the pumps. Your pump housing is most likely brass (mine is on my Perlick) and your pump vanes are likely stainless.

Phosphate is used as a corrosion inhibitor as well and would be safer in my opinion than nitrite and TTA.

Glycol generally will not break down into glycolic acid when it is used for chilled water applications (it may well with age but it is a much slower process than when it is used at hot temps). It will eventually break down when heated which is why it was recommended to get your radiator flushed every few years. I don't seem to see that pushed as much by the auto repair shops as it used to be so I'm assuming auto anti-freeze must be using some buffers to help with that these days.

In other words, you really should have no need for corrosion inhibitors in the glycol blend for our purposes of keeping a sub-freezing reservoir of liquid. Even when used as beer tower coolers, there simply are no ferrous parts designed into those systems I can think of and brass and copper have naturally very good corrosion resistance with no additives.

The reason PG packaged for RV use is supposedly not suitable for a glycol system is it is designed to basically be poured in and sit stagnant so your lines don't freeze. It is not designed for recirculating systems, at least this is what power pack manufacturers with their own branded PG say. By nature, RV grade needs to be non-toxic because it is used to winterize potable as well as gray or black water systems.

As a bit of disclosure, I did use RV grade in my chiller which passed my check out of the MSDS sheet and had no issues for 1.5 years. Eventually my pump did take a dump but it was due to a ball bearing race which eventually failed not from the coolant side but on the exterior of the pump which means it was corrosion from condensate. Perlick's chillers come with a styrofoam casing on the pump head for insulation so I suspect it was retained condensate from intermittant use which led to the pump failure. Poking a small drain hole in the bottom of that I hope will solve the problem for the future.

The main issue I was concerned about the toxicity aside from a possible excursion into a fermenter was what happened if there was a leak and could it be disposed of through the sanitary sewer in small amounts.

However, the conversation of PG suitable for small recirculating systems has intrigued me and I wonder if a small amount of mineral oil might be added for lubrication though PG is fairly slick and may have some good lubricity properties.

If you really want to cut through the BS on what is safe, pull up the material safety data sheet (MSDS) and read it to see what is in it. One I did pull up said the corrosion inhibitor was proprietary and non hazardous so it was a protected trade secret, even at 12% utilization. (I'd bet anyone a tasty home brew this is a phosphate compound or straight phosphate).

Personally, if I realized I was missing several ounces of coolant while chilling a 10 gallon or 15 gallon batch and it was not on the floor, I would dump the batch of beer, food grade or not. It may not kill you but it doesn't belong in beer. Treat it as a flaw as you would a high temp excursion or an infection.

This would be my starting point to find suitable PG for your chiller- check the MSDS sheets from someone like Rapids Whoesale or another retailer who sells glycol for these systems. If they can't or won't provide an MSDS, keep looking. That is the best proof if the PG you are buying does or does not have any hazardous additives in it. The other rule is, if the glycol went missing, "food grade" or not I would not serve that beer.

Basically, your evaluation needs to make sure it's not hazardous with incidental contact and it should be considered appropriate for our small recirculating systems.
 
HELP! Anyone have an air bubble in their line that is impeding glycol flow??? Don't know how to fix it!
 
HELP! Anyone have an air bubble in their line that is impeding glycol flow??? Don't know how to fix it!


Check the level of fluid in your reserve. If your return line is above the level it can cause some aeration of the glycol which can cause air to be picked up and delivered to the coils. It's possible your pump is causing some cavitation, but I have not experienced that.
 
Air bubbles should not impede flow; they should simply be pushed out. It sounds like your pump isn't moving the glycol mix. Is it primed or is there an air bubble in the pump itself binding it?
 
Air bubbles should not impede flow; they should simply be pushed out. It sounds like your pump isn't moving the glycol mix. Is it primed or is there an air bubble in the pump itself binding it?

I troubleshooted the pump and it worked fine. No idea what the deal was. This is the second time this has happened. First time, I had to manipulate the pump within the glycol chiller for it to work properly, and it was completely submerged the entire time. Last time, I removed the pump, submerged it in water under I had proper flow through the lines, then placed it back in the glycol tank. It definitely was an issue with an air bubble within the lines or FTSS coils. Not sure exactly how to permanently fix it but I'm trying to figure out some preventative measure so that it doesn't happen again.
 
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