Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack
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Decided to move forward with the chiller as my ftcc has arrived and my first 10 gallon batch is ready and I want to cold crash it. I was not able to harvest years this go round as I planned as I sim0ly didn't understand how much beer would dump when I hit that butterfly valve for a trub dump. I was actually afraid it would not finish ferm3nting so much trub and yeast came out. It did round out ar 10:12 so I suppose even with a pound of candy sugar at two days, it's come out ok.
Now to just hook all this up. I just finished setting up my 5 gallon cip for the fermenter.
Now to just hook all this up. I just finished setting up my 5 gallon cip for the fermenter.
I just ordered the FTSS heat/cool kit for my new 1/2BBL BME and a heat conversion kit for the 14 gal chronical. Now I can turn the heat down in my garage a little lower without worry and I can also do a saison in the winter and keep the temp pretty consistent.
They are doing great stuff!
They are doing great stuff!
I have a 14gal SS Brewtech standard model and have been heating with a heating pad mounted at the cone and cooling with GottaBrew jacket. So far I can warm it fine but have only been able to cool to 40 degrees with ice water. I have a chiller (same as OP) on order but they are backlogged.
I have pretty much convinced my wife I need a second fermenter and I think I am going to splurge and get the 14gal BME with the full heat/cool FTSS package.
How hard is it to clean the heat exchanger in the fermenter? Do you leave it in the fermenter or remove it to clean it?
Interested in your CIP, what did you come up with?
dmcman73
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If you are referring to the FTSS stainless coil then, you can leave it in the fermenter to clean. I just recently modified my 7 gallon and 14 gallon units to mount the coils inside of them (drill two holes in the side walls of the fermenter to mount the coils). I use a non abrasive plastic brush to knock off any loose gunk, fill the conical part way with hot water and PBW and let it soak with the lid closed (let the steam do some work as well). I'll leave it like this while I clean / prep other parts of my brewery. By the time I get back to the conicals, everything is loose and blasts off with some hot water from the hose and light scrubbing.
Yes that is what I was referring to, thanks. Ordering the 14gal BME today!
ibrewmyown
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Very nice set up! I just put my whole 14 gallon Chronical in my upright freezer. I have a hot and cold temperature controller so I have a small heater inside the freezer as well. I can maintain a fermentation within 2 degrees from the initial fermentation through the complete fermentation and on through lagering no matter how hot or cold it is outside the freezer.
I live in Illinois and although my garage is heated, I only keep it at about 45 during the winter. The heater helps when I want to warm a lager to do the diacetyl rest when brewing a lager. It also helps when doing an ale in the winter. The freezer maintains the temperature holding the temp down while it initially ferments but once fermentation slows, the temperature would get too low without the heater in there because the garage is only 45 degrees. It works great.
I live in Illinois and although my garage is heated, I only keep it at about 45 during the winter. The heater helps when I want to warm a lager to do the diacetyl rest when brewing a lager. It also helps when doing an ale in the winter. The freezer maintains the temperature holding the temp down while it initially ferments but once fermentation slows, the temperature would get too low without the heater in there because the garage is only 45 degrees. It works great.
As I am getting older I am trying to not lift as much. Now with this fermenter and cooling pretty much the heaviest things in brewing for me are the 5gal ball lock kegs when they are full.
How are you getting the fermenter in your freezer? Do you have a ramp or something?
akthor
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I'm assuming he's pumping wort in and out. That's what I'll be doing since I'm going to be brewing 1 bbl batches.
Has anyone been able to find a source for the 3/16" wall tubing? I did a quick google search but I am coming up with the thinner stuff.
Here you go... 10 feet for one loop, 25 feet for two loops...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMYWUW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Cheers,
Michael
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Perfect thanks, believe it or not I searched Amazon as well. Must have left something out of the search words.
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ibrewmyown
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moved response
ibrewmyown
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Correct! I pump it into the 14 gallon fermenter which I put in there empty and then once fermented pump it into my kegs which are already in my chest freezer. Then I pump it into my glass
I used to ferment in my basement which meant lugging full glass carboys up and down the steps. Then I moved my lagering upright freezer to the garage and pumped into the carboys sitting in the freezer. This still left me with lifting full carboys and kegs in and out.
Now with the setup I have, the only time I need to lift anything is when its empty. It's a much more enjoyable brewing experience all the way around
KimJohansen
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For those of you with a glycol reservoir in a cooler. If you should redo your build, would you choose to drill holes in the lid or in the side of the cooler? I'm opting for a beer chiller (http://www.lindr.cz/products/pygmy-25) as chilling source and I plan to control two fermenters from this build:
I'm also a bit worried I will ruin the insulation of my Coleman cooler when also having to accommodate power cables for three pumps. How do you handle that challenge?
I'm also a bit worried I will ruin the insulation of my Coleman cooler when also having to accommodate power cables for three pumps. How do you handle that challenge?
augiedoggy
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You may be aware of this but the other option is to just use one large pump and an external manifold with ballvalves or solenoid valves which operate on the temp controller... its is simpler than it sounds to make and you use dual contact relays to turn on the main pump at the same time is anyone or more of the valves... It has been working good for me so far.
dmcman73
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I drilled 4 holes into the side of my cooler, closer to the top of the cooler above the water line. I used PVC threaded nipples as "bulkheads" to go through the wall and tightened everything down with teflon. It's not the best setup, but it's working out great. If your temp probe is a wired one, just notch the top lip of the cooler like I did and run it directly into the water (that is if the temp probe end is sealed).
I've been coming up with a plan to change all that and go with a one pump solution to continuously pump water through my chiller (which is an aquarium chiller) going through a manifold. From the manifold add 12VDC motorized valves where the outlet of the valve will go to the chilling coils in the feremnters and the motor on the valves will connect to the FTSS controller using the "Pump" power supply port. When the FTSS goes to turn on it's own pump, it will actually power the motorized valve and open it to allow coolant to the fermenter. Once it goes to turn off it's "pump", it will cut off 12VDC to that motorized valve and it will close.
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KimJohansen
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Thanks for the tip! I did think of a manifold solution. But if possible I'd like to avoid it being too complicated and less error prone. Do you have a dump valve in case one of your solenoid's fails?
KimJohansen
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Thanks, that looks quite similar to what I was thinking.
Have you been able to do lagers with your aquarium chiller? How about cold crashing?
augiedoggy
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I used this guide to build my manifold (got it from another member here who shared it in their 4 plastic conical build... anyway I leave the bypass valve cracked open just a bit...
I do use a beer line chiller with a powerful 220v pump built in it so... I see it as more reliable myself since aquarium pumps and powerheads have a limited life when powered on and off , especially under load...
I use STC 1000+ temp controllers and 4 relays I bought for like $6 a piece and a 24v powersupply... the 24v valves (they come in 12v too) were only $2.19 a piece shipped so... there are some pics in my thread below.
View attachment GLYCOLGUIDE.pdf
dmcman73
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I haven't tried lagers but the chiller only goes down to 39 F. I guess there is some sort of "governor" on the unit to prevent it from going any lower (you really don't want to go any lower than that for aquariums). I may pull it apart to see what makes it tick to see if i can rewire it myself to bypass the internal temp controller and get this to go down lower, after all, it has a refrigeration unit in it and a compressor, it's the temp controller that's holding it back.
KimJohansen
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I'm kind of interested to do a similar build now. The reason is I'm changing my cooler to one with a build in pump. I'm a complete beginner when it comes to electricity. I have wired a STC 1000 before, but that's about it. Could you perhaps take some pictures of your wiring and setup as a guide? Thanks!
augiedoggy
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my system is all closed up but I will see if I can draw up a diagram to explain it better...
KimJohansen
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Any simple drawing or other guidelines will also be more than welcome. Don't know where to start to be honest.
One thing I do not understand is how to have two sources (STC 1000's) control the pump? What if both fermenters require cooling at the same time?
augiedoggy
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well I use relays that have a double set of contacts which basically turn on 2 things at once when they are activated... one set of contacts controls the main pump which recirculates the glycol through the manifold with the 4 valves in it and the other turns on the valve which allows flow to that conical... so is more than one stc is calling for cooling at the same time then 2 out of my 4 valves are open on my main manifold... the pump will run until all of the stc's are happy and turn off the colling signal..
One set of contacts on my dual relays is for the 240v pump and the other has 24vDC going through it to turn on my 24v soleniod valve.
my heaters are 24v as well so I use the 24v powersupply to power them if needed too... there are a few pics towards the end of my build thread below.
KimJohansen
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Process wise I fully understand your setup. That's also what I am aiming for. But putting the dual contact relays together with the STC 1000 and solenoid valves is where I'm lost.
I sent you a PM. Sorry to join in late. I didn't read entire thread to see how many conicals you intend to chill. If you are just doing one, you really shouldn't need a solenoid or any valves. The pump is the "valve" and can be controlled with the native relay inside the STC-1000. I suspect also that the chiller could probably be controlled with a second STC-1000 and its native relay as long as it isn't pulling a great deal of amperage. Compressors often pull more amps during start up then settle down once running. I don't know what you are using for your glycol chiller. If you have a commercial 220v power pack, then it is probably a better idea to use a secondary relay that is more robust. If you really wanted to get cheap though, just operate the pump 100% of the time without a controller and buy one STC-1000 to run the glycol chiller and set the glycol bath for the temp you want your beer to ferment at. Might need a couple degrees of offset depending on the efficiency and thermodynamics of your setup. Also in the long run, this will probably shorten the life of the pump compared to the intermittent pump with two controllers.
KimJohansen
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The plan is to control two ½ Barrel SS Brew Tech fermenters. Hence the talk about solenoids. I'm aiming at this chiller: https://brewhaequipment.com/blogs/brewinfo/37593281-overview-of-the-water-beer-and-wort-chiller
Do note it's quite a lot cheaper in Europe where I live:
https://www.ich-zapfe.de/bierzapfen/untertheken-wasserkuehlgeraet-utwk-as-110-2-leitig/a-452456/
It has a built in pump (which can be controlled by an STC 1000) and reservoir. Would just have the chiller turned on constantly and then turn on the circulation pump when needed.
Well then.
For one thing, you could build a DIY glycol chiller for far less, but it wouldn't look very nice, and is definitely not as slick as the one you are eyeing.
I would think that you would want stainless steel electric controlled normally closed ball valves that operate with variable low voltage DC in lieu of solenoids (low voltage DC is safest). You would need at least two.
You will need to either plumb each conical individually with individual pumps or use a single pump and construct a glycol manifold. In short the manifold will provide a means of recirculation of the glycol while it is chilling itself, and also permit simultaneous chilling of multiple conicals with balanced flow to all conicals regardless of how many are being chilled at once. It sounds complicated, but the gist of it is that total length of the plumbing both to and from the reservoir will be equal for all conicals, and that there is a means of placing some resistance on the common return line for the manifold. There are diagrams out there which illustrate. I would advise placing one if the ball valves in line with the input coil of each conical using suitable connectors. I would advise against using quick disconnects for any closed loop glycol plumbing or coils where there is a possibility to create a closed loop in which cold glycol can become entrapped (which will expand as it warms up causing a problem).
It seems I would need to familiarize myself with the STC-1000 manual and the variations available. However, you would need one for each conical, and would connect each one to the ball valve either directly, or via a relay if necessary. The particular version of the STC-1000 you have (I think there are DC and AC versions with perhaps various types of relays as well and unsure if the relays are tapped into the power source or if they need to be wired to do so) will determine the basic wiring needed to control the ball valves, and is possible you might need a small DC power supply. If you buy the variable voltage valves, you can probably use the wall-wart supply from the STC-1000 if they support this option, or can use one you probably have lying around your home from some obsolete devices.
If the glycol pump is continuously operational as you are saying, then just plumb that up to your manifold and you're all set.
Hope that all makes sense. If you are interested in building your own glycol chiller, the plans from Packet are pretty good. This is one part of his design that was straightforward, easy, and without any drawbacks that I have encountered at least thus far.
Good Luck
TD
oh one other thing. If you find you need a way to control the glycol pump, you can probably build a nested switch relay circuit to provide simultaneous connection to both STC so that pump would turn on when one or both STCs called for coolant, and off when there is no call for coolant. This would require I imagine some basic circuit knowledge and an inexpensive external relay. Some people like this thing called a power-switch tail, for controlling 120vac devices. Not sure what your power situation is in Europe or if there is a 220v version. For what it does its a bit spendy, but is relatively inexpensive and is super easy to wire up.
KimJohansen
Well-Known Member
Stainless steel electric controlled normally closed ball valves sounds like a good idea.
The pump is not on a constant run though. That's my challenge. To simultaneously activate a valve (for the relevant fermenter) and the pump using the STC 1000.
The pump is not on a constant run though. That's my challenge. To simultaneously activate a valve (for the relevant fermenter) and the pump using the STC 1000.
I forget where I purchased my ball valves from, but that is what I am using, and spec'd by packet, and they work well.
What are the specs on the pump? is it controlled by the glycol chiller or is it independent of the glycol system? How do you set the temp for the glycol bath or is it fixed at the factory? Knowing this will be key to figuring out how to operate it using the STC-1000
Here is a basic diagram for the stc-1000
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=333680
You will want to plug your AC/DC wall-wart adapter into the "always on" outlet. You will need to determine the polarity of the voltage, and connect this to one of the COOLING pins (doesn't matter which) on the STC. Then wire the other half to the electric ball valve (observe correct polarity) and then finally connect the other half of the ball valve to the wall-wart VDC supply.
Once you let me know how the pump functions and what voltage, we can get the working. It will probably require an external relay or might be just as easy to get a powerswitch tail and use that. I am thinking that you might need to use a couple of diodes in order to connect two inputs to the PST at the same time, but it might work well without. I drew a diagram in pencil and will try to attach it.
http://www.powerswitchtail.com/Pages/default.aspx
TD
KimJohansen
Well-Known Member
I don't know the specs of the pump. But it should have a lift height of 6m.
The pump has its own power cable which you can plug into the chiller. But my plan is to let it be controlled by my array of STC 1000's monitoring the fermenters temperatures.
There is a thermostat for the cooling which can me set between 4°C - 10°C
KimJohansen
Well-Known Member
As you can se the pump has a power cable (located in the top) which you can insert beneath the green manual switch. That's a standard PC power cable. Since we use 240V here I assume it's a 240V pump but I do not know for sure yet as the chiller is still in the mail. Should arrive Friday.
That is pretty nice.....
The wiring diagram I sent (aside from being inverted) should probably work. The PowerSwitch tail people can probably tell you if it needs protection diodes, and I think they have a 220V version which you can probably use (possibly with adapters) directly with the glycol unit! Not sure if the pump for the glycol unit needs to be circulating while it is chilling itself, but you should find out if it has a separate impeller to keep the glycol bath in motion. If so then that pump is just for pumping through the coolant lines.
Good Luck! Can't wait to hear how your setup is going to work for you. What is the plan for cleaning? If my design improvisations don't fix my issues with my plastic tanks I'm going with either the FTSS/BME Chronical OR Stout tanks with DIY external cooling hoses or CoolZone jackets. So you see, I have a high amount of interest in what you are doing. I'm mostly interested in the cleaning, particularly CIP capability of the FTSS/SS BrewTech setup. Last I researched is not true CIP capable.
TD
The wiring diagram I sent (aside from being inverted) should probably work. The PowerSwitch tail people can probably tell you if it needs protection diodes, and I think they have a 220V version which you can probably use (possibly with adapters) directly with the glycol unit! Not sure if the pump for the glycol unit needs to be circulating while it is chilling itself, but you should find out if it has a separate impeller to keep the glycol bath in motion. If so then that pump is just for pumping through the coolant lines.
Good Luck! Can't wait to hear how your setup is going to work for you. What is the plan for cleaning? If my design improvisations don't fix my issues with my plastic tanks I'm going with either the FTSS/BME Chronical OR Stout tanks with DIY external cooling hoses or CoolZone jackets. So you see, I have a high amount of interest in what you are doing. I'm mostly interested in the cleaning, particularly CIP capability of the FTSS/SS BrewTech setup. Last I researched is not true CIP capable.
TD
Kim,
I considered what you were thinking, but in the end, to control three fermenters (7 gal, 14 gal, 17 gal), it just made sense to add the new Brew Master controllers from SSBT. I like the heating pads available, and basically by the time I would have spent the money and time to come up with a brewery style glycol loop system it represented a lot of time I can spend elsewhere.
So I have one recirc pump on my chiller to draw the heat from the glycol bath through the heat exchanger. I use three independent pumps to pump through coils in the fermenters. So far, so good, and a good deal more simple.
Ill worry about brewery-scale engineering when I own a brewery
I considered what you were thinking, but in the end, to control three fermenters (7 gal, 14 gal, 17 gal), it just made sense to add the new Brew Master controllers from SSBT. I like the heating pads available, and basically by the time I would have spent the money and time to come up with a brewery style glycol loop system it represented a lot of time I can spend elsewhere.
So I have one recirc pump on my chiller to draw the heat from the glycol bath through the heat exchanger. I use three independent pumps to pump through coils in the fermenters. So far, so good, and a good deal more simple.
Ill worry about brewery-scale engineering when I own a brewery
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I use plastic solenoid valves.... been using them for about 6 months and they have been isn constant use much of that time...
here are the 24v dc valves I used , they were $2.19 with shipping but this seller has them for $2.18 plus $1.39 shipping... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-So...899630?hash=item3cf412a22e:g:k48AAOSwEeFVLdjI
.. not sure why you would want stainless? the wort never comes in contact with these only water/glycol..
I used heating strips like this one only mine were also 24v dc not 120v... http://www.ebay.com/itm/15mm-X-2000...333101?hash=item3f3357d22d:g:knoAAMXQyY1TPmCj
here are the 24v dc valves I used , they were $2.19 with shipping but this seller has them for $2.18 plus $1.39 shipping... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-So...899630?hash=item3cf412a22e:g:k48AAOSwEeFVLdjI
.. not sure why you would want stainless? the wort never comes in contact with these only water/glycol..
I used heating strips like this one only mine were also 24v dc not 120v... http://www.ebay.com/itm/15mm-X-2000...333101?hash=item3f3357d22d:g:knoAAMXQyY1TPmCj
That is super cheap! The glycol is often diluted with water, and in fact what I used was a commercially pre-diluted brand by Dow. Over time it can cause corrosion. That is only benefit as I can see other than potentially more durable than plastic. Also ability to respond to a variable low voltage is potentially a plus. Your plastic valves have no steel parts in contact with coolant? Your valves are about 1/12th what mine cost. I will keep this post in mind should I find myself ever needing more valves!
TD
