Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack

[czmkid]

You know...Ive never seen how I have the lines attached to my coils. Don’t even know if I’ve hooked them both up the same way. I just started crash cooling both tanks today. Usually drop it to 35 and it gets there. We will see if this happens on my covered patio in TX heat. 91deg here today. Glycol revisor at 28 deg factor setting.

 

[Tozzi]

@Tartan1:
Absolutely. But, like you mention, does this really make a difference (at the volumes we typically work with, i.e. 5 to 17 Gal.)?
Especially with the really long coils the Ss Fermenters (Unitanks) come with? I would expect temperatures to be quite equal on input and output sides, normally, when there's no blockage of any kind.
Regarding flow rate, I was just referring to the problems prosperbrews has with his setup, as mentioned above...

 

[RevKev]

Anybody seen this, haven't been on MoreBeer on a while looks oddly familiar and a lot cheaper... With some less functionality but. Yeah. That's a lot cheaper..

https://www.morebeer.com/products/icemaster-glycol-chiller.html

 

[Morrey]

I noted when I checked, I had two tanks (the 14G and one 7G) with the inlet dropping straight down the pipe, then turning back up toward the outlet. The other 7G tank had the inlet entering the coil, then went back up the straight pipe to return. I really didn't pay much attention to the orientation as I don't remember that Ss said it mattered.

Long and short, I have never seen a difference when comparing the cooling power side by side. I've had both 7G tanks (these are the ones that are inletted opposite) running side by side and neither seemed to have a different cycling time. Since the ambient conditions are the same, I can compare realistically.

I suppose if we looked more closely at the cooling dynamics of one setup compared to another, we may find there is some academic difference. But in real life situations, I have noted no discernable difference to be aware of.

 

[prosperbrews]

Great conversation but sounds like folks are getting acceptable performance in either direction - it is interesting that ss brewtech doesn’t address this while spike makes specific recommendations based on holding temps vs cold crashing.

I still need to figure out why my unitank cant get below 45f with 75f ambient temps. Something is definitely off - I’m still stumped and it appears Ss is as well - they have not responded to my ticket yet.

 

[Morrey]

Have you had a chance to look at the pumps output to see if it’s pumping at full volume?

 

[prosperbrews]

Have you had a chance to look at the pumps output to see if it’s pumping at full volume?

The pump seems fine to me - I completely disassembled it and everything looks good - no blockages. The glycol lines going to and from the unitank are fully pressurized and when I pull up the lid on the glycol chiller there is a steady stream of glycol flowing through the copper pipe back into the reservoir. The glycol is cooled to 28, verified with a thermapen. The beer inside is truly at 45-46 also verified with a thermapen (ruling out the temp probe as the issue). Unitank is fully jacketed. Ambient temps were 75f the entire time controlled by a dedicated ac for the brew room. This was a full batch (5.5 gallons) in the 7 g unitank. ABV of 5.5%. It. Makes. No. Sense

 

[martianpc]

I think it's an inherent shortcoming of using a coil instead of a jacketed fermenter. I have a great deal of difficulty getting mine under 40 degrees with a 12 gallon batch in my 14 gallon unitank. I ended up having to drop my glycol temperature underneath 28 by a good bit in order to get there. In the end I ended up freezing some of the beer. I personally think that the neoprene jacket is just inferior to the insulation that would be necessary considering the surface size of the coil. There just doesn't seem to be enough contact area on the coil. I'm trying to figure out a way to better insulate the unitank going forward.

 

[Tozzi]

The glycol is cooled to 28, verified with a thermapen. The beer inside is truly at 45-46 also verified with a thermapen (ruling out the temp probe as the issue).

I just stumbled across this article on their FAQ, perhaps this is the case with your setup?
https://ssbrewtech.zendesk.com/hc/e...than-40-degrees-when-I-crash-cool-what-gives-
Just trying to find an explanation.
When cold crashing my current batch, I think I ran into a similar problem. Temp wouldn't go lower than 3˚C.
I at first blamed my Grainfather Glycol Chiller, but once I raised the temp to 4˚C and then lowered it back to 1˚C, it suddenly worked.
I did not open the Unitank, because it is (naturally) pressurized.

My new 3/8 HP Ss Brewtech Chiller is still sitting there, need to go buy some Aquadest tomorrow. The plug adapter (mine shipped with an UK plug) arrived today.
Review follows, so far I'm impressed by the sturdy, almost "steampunk" like design (or the lack thereof).
This is what happens when you let engineers do their thing. Nice. Form follows function, without any compromises.

 

[Joe17]

Guys I just ordered the 1/2 barrel unitank and I am looking for a cip pump for the 1” spray ball I picked up from brewers hardware . It says it works from 15-100psi and the 40-60 range works best. Do you guys know of a good pump for the job?

 

[czmkid]

Issue with gasket in butterfly valve. Anyone else seeing their gasket tear like this after 8 fermentation’s? Is this user error? I spray with starsans every time before using the valve.

 

[Tozzi]

Looks like a manufacturing fault to me.
StarSan is definitely not the culprit. Some of my butterfly valves have been used way more often without any problems so far.
I'm using StarSan, too, as well as occasionally 70% Ethanol.

 

[prosperbrews]

Unfortunately SS brewtech has been unable/unwilling to address the issue of my unitank not making it below 45F on a cold crash. I have opened up 3 support tickets to date. 2 of them received no response and the third was a generic response where they just repeated to check all of the variables I had already communicated to them and shared with you all here.

Maybe they will see these posts - but I will no longer be recommending their products until they provide real technical support

 

[Tozzi]

I still owe you guys a short summary of my first impressions of the new 3/8 HP Ss Brewtech Glycol Chiller...
I finally received another 5 Litres of Glycol today and was able to put it to a first test.

It's quite a monster.
In order to fill up the tank, you'll need 3 Gallons of Propylene Glycol, and twice that amount of distilled water.
So, all in all, it's 9 Gallons or just a little less than 35 litres of liquid.

The hose barbs are 3/8" (BSP threads, I don't know if the US version will have NPT ones).
I've replaced a few with quick disconnects:



QA seems to be quite tight, there's 6(!) signatures on a sticker at the bottom plate of the device:



The compressor is impressive, it shows 460W on the label. Some shops have it listed as 770W, Ss say it's 3/8 HP which would imply 280W. Confusing. I'll try and measure the actual power consumption some time soon(tm).



I attached a few FTSs pumps and made sure the glycol and water were well mixed, then switched the chiller on for the first time and was immediately impressed.
While the noise level is still comparatively low, you can definitely tell that this machine is a powerful workhorse.
I've made a little video of that:





I like the design (or the lack thereof). Steampunk. Form follows function. No doubts there.
This thing is serious.
An engineer's dream, a designer's nightmare.
I love it, it reminds me of Tim Taylor's "Tool Time". Binford Mega Turbo Chiller 2000.

The 35 litres (9.2 Gal) coolant got chilled down from 25˚C (77 F) to -3˚C (27 F) in approximately one hour's time.
I'm impressed and happy I bought this thing, even though it's probably total overkill for my humble brewery.
At least I won't ever have to worry about my cooling system being powerful enough for a cold crash, anymore.
Also, no more worries about dry hops settling out.
Filling bottles with the Beer Gun will be a piece of cake now, too.

 

[czmkid]

@Tozzi

Thanks for your initial impressions. Can you tell me more about your lines and insulation around it. It almost looks like one piece!

Here is a follow up to my butterfly gasket tear. I contacted Ss and provided photos of the issue on Monday. I hear back from them Tuesday saying that most definitely this was a manufacturer issue and was still under warranty. They are sending out a few gaskets. I did ask if they had a how to with pictures so I wouldn’t muck it up. They wrote back saying there wasn’t one but provided rudimentary instructions. I suggested they added this with pix to their ZenDesk in case others run across the same issue.

@prosperbrews

Sorry your issue is not resolved. I wonder if there is a way to measure the gal per min using one or more of your pumps and seeing what a nominal flow rate is from an ‘normal’ pump? From reading your posts it seem s like the glycol unit is working. Maybe you can ask to change out the cooling coil that goes into the tank and see if that is the issue? Just thinking out loud here.

More......After thinking more you could even test the flow rate of the glycol thru the coil to determine if that’s where your blockage is after ruling out bad pump flow rates. Maybe a piece of metal from the machine process of making the coil or welding it onto the tc lid is the issue...ie a bad weld causing slag to get in the way of the opening. I would think that as long as you sent back the pump and coil that Ss would not have an issue with the exchange as they too would want to know how to solve this issue if it came up again.

 

[Tozzi]

Can you tell me more about your lines and insulation around it. It almost looks like one piece!

Sure!
These are the pipes meant for the Grainfather chiller:
https://www.grainfather.com/shop/conical-fermenter/cooling-connection-kit.html
Apparently these aren't yet available in the US, though.
They come with the disconnects I've shown, but I'm sure there must be a cheaper option, too.
The hoses are basically just standard PVC plastic, 9 mm (3/8"), with armaflex insulation around them (inner diameter=15 mm), like these:
https://isolierprofi.eu/af2-15-armaflex-af-schlauch-11--13776.html

Glad you could sort the issue with your butterfly gaskets.
I wonder how one would replace these, thanks for asking them to put it on the zendesk. Will be good to know.

 

[Morrey]

@prosperbrews

Sorry your issue is not resolved.

More......After thinking more you could even test the flow rate of the glycol thru the coil to determine if that’s where your blockage is after ruling out bad pump flow rates. Maybe a piece of metal from the machine process of making the coil or welding it onto the tc lid is the issue...ie a bad weld causing slag to get in the way of the opening. I would think that as long as you sent back the pump and coil that Ss would not have an issue with the exchange as they too would want to know how to solve this issue if it came up again.[/QUOTE]
******************************************************************
Good thinking.

If this was my situation, I'd have the pump submerged in the glycol bath and run a short piece of hose from the pump's outlet. Energize the pump and watch/time the flow rate that should be unobstructed considering he reported the impeller and drive shaft checked clear. Since the flow rate is now established, reconnect to the coil and see if the flow rate is slowed which can indicate its obstructed. There could be some blockage or small manufacturing debris causing a partial obstruction that a new coil would quickly solve.

FWIW, this may not be isolated to Ss. A brewing buddy has a new Spike CF10 and he is having a very similar problem. I have 3 Uni tanks and they all function flawlessly, but this doesn't suggest problems can't and don't exist in similar units.

 

[prosperbrews]

Thanks for all the feedback. I’m still working with SS brewtech on the chilling issue. It’s just a slow process as there is a lag time between every response and it takes about 3 communications to communicate all the variables and troubleshooting I’ve already done.

I did just receive a second 7 gallon unitank, so very anxious to test a cold crash, which if successful, would certainly implicate the coil in my first tank.

Unfortunately the second tank I received had a bent ferrule for the racking arm which causes the butterfly valve to slant to one side. Appears to be cosmetic but I’m still requesting SS to replace it. Will certainly being putting their customer service to the test and keep everyone posted. Pics attached

 

[Morrey]

Darn, seems you are being put to the test regarding your patience levels. I have always been impressed that the Uni tanks seemed so nicely packed for shipping. Did you note any exterior damage on the boxes in which an impact may have bent that ferrule as badly as was shown in your pics?

When you have time, you can always test the flow of the two coils side by side to compare the flow rate now that you have two to test.

 

[Beholder]

Unfortunately SS brewtech has been unable/unwilling to address the issue of my unitank not making it below 45F on a cold crash. I have opened up 3 support tickets to date. 2 of them received no response and the third was a generic response where they just repeated to check all of the variables I had already communicated to them and shared with you all here.

Maybe they will see these posts - but I will no longer be recommending their products until they provide real technical support

It would be interesting to do a thermodynamic check of heat balance. Do you have capability to measure surface temperatures via infrared? If so, you can calculate the heat flux through the insulation (as well as the non-insulated portions) and calculate the heat extraction through the coils to balance the observed temperatures. Cross checking this against heat pickup from reservoir to return line to rule out heat infiltration into the system as a key contributor.

Then it becomes a heat exchanger efficiency problem - smooth wall HTC correlations and flow rate measurements will clarify if you increase flow rate, what your cold side full potential is... however, your warm side heat transfer (beer to coil) is a limiting factor here as you are conduction limited on heat transfer. My guess is that this the culprit —> solution would then be to reduce heat infiltration and consider options to introduce convection during cold crash operations, e.g. start carbonation process at beginning of cold crash. Presuming of course that you step down on crash or set glycol temp higher initially to avoid icing on the coils.

 

[prosperbrews]

Darn, seems you are being put to the test regarding your patience levels. I have always been impressed that the Uni tanks seemed so nicely packed for shipping. Did you note any exterior damage on the boxes in which an impact may have bent that ferrule as badly as was shown in your pics?

When you have time, you can always test the flow of the two coils side by side to compare the flow rate now that you have two to test.

The packaging was fine. This seems like a mfg defect rather than shipping damage.

 

[prosperbrews]

It would be interesting to do a thermodynamic check of heat balance. Do you have capability to measure surface temperatures via infrared? If so, you can calculate the heat flux through the insulation (as well as the non-insulated portions) and calculate the heat extraction through the coils to balance the observed temperatures. Cross checking this against heat pickup from reservoir to return line to rule out heat infiltration into the system as a key contributor.

Then it becomes a heat exchanger efficiency problem - smooth wall HTC correlations and flow rate measurements will clarify if you increase flow rate, what your cold side full potential is... however, your warm side heat transfer (beer to coil) is a limiting factor here as you are conduction limited on heat transfer. My guess is that this the culprit —> solution would then be to reduce heat infiltration and consider options to introduce convection during cold crash operations, e.g. start carbonation process at beginning of cold crash. Presuming of course that you step down on crash or set glycol temp higher initially to avoid icing on the coils.

This might be viable if Ss were paying me for product engineering, which they are not. To bump it up to more simplistic terms, others on this forum are getting to 35F rather easily with higher ambient temps then my 75F. Something is amiss somewhere. The cold crash on my new unitank with new coil and new pump will tell the story and hopefully weed out the defective part. Will keep you all posted

On a side note, the coil design could use some improvement. A good portion of the coil sits in the free airspace any fermenter would have, without any contact with liquid. If you compare the design with Spike’s coil, you’ll see Spike’s coil immediately drops to clear the headspace before spiraling and reaches deeper into the comical. This is a superior design.

 

[BuckyB5]

With they glycol temps in the 20-30s, do you see any problems with over/under-shoot when trying to maintain target fermentation temp for ales (mid 60-low 70 range)

 

[Tozzi]

It does undershoot a little, of course. But that's well within the range of 1-2˚F, so nothing to really worry about, from my experience.
I've set my FTSs to 0,1˚C hysteresis, and 30 minutes delay (so the heating won't kick in when the temp is undershot).
Usually I don't have both heating & chilling connected, though.
You'll need to find the sweet spot in your environment, but since it's all configurable, no worries there.

 

[prosperbrews]

You know...Ive never seen how I have the lines attached to my coils. Don’t even know if I’ve hooked them both up the same way. I just started crash cooling both tanks today. Usually drop it to 35 and it gets there. We will see if this happens on my covered patio in TX heat. 91deg here today. Glycol revisor at 28 deg factor setting.

How’d the cold crash go?

 

[czmkid]

How’d the cold crash go?

@prosperbrews

Sorry just seeing this. With the added outside temps and humidity it would only bring the two tanks down to 38 set at the factory 28 deg setpoint. I dropped that to 25 and it got to35 in the tanks no problemo. I’d say from 65 to 38 on two tanks in about 90 min.

You get your issue narrowed down any?

 

[prosperbrews]

@prosperbrews

Sorry just seeing this. With the added outside temps and humidity it would only bring the two tanks down to 38 set at the factory 28 deg setpoint. I dropped that to 25 and it got to35 in the tanks no problemo. I’d say from 65 to 38 on two tanks in about 90 min.

You get your issue narrowed down any?

Those cooling numbers seem incredibly fast especially given the ambient temps outside.

Unfortunately no solution for me yet. I received a second tank and swapped in the coil and pump and did a test using water. I filled the tank with about 6.5 gallons to submerge more of the coil. The water crash stalled out at 47F after running for about 12 hours. Pretty sad results.

I’ve now tested and swapped every single variable EXCEPT the QDs on the glycol lines. My next test will eliminate the QDs and use a different 3/8 ID line. Although the flow doesn’t appear to be impeded, this is the final thing I can do before giving up

 

[prosperbrews]

So just before I tossed the unitank out the window, I decided just for giggles to swap the control unit and thermostat with the new unitank I just received. I never did this before because the samples I took from the sample port always matched almost exact what the thermostat read, about 45-46 degrees.

Well, I swapped the control unit and thermostat for the FTSS and low and behold the temp immediately dropped to 36 degrees. What? How could this be.

After diving into the settings of the original controller I found that the calibration settings were set to + 9 degrees! After correcting this it also read correctly!

Crazy - be sure to check your default settings. It’s looks like I’m now crashing to about 36-37 which makes me feel much better!

So....how do we explain the beer taken from the sample port matching the bad calibration on the Ftss controller? It’s temp stratification that occurs in the tank. I took another sample which measured at 41, but then immediately pulled the coil and a the thermapen read 32 degrees at the top of the tank.

This also means I have been fermenting my beers 9 degrees colder than thought. I’ve made my best two batches since using the unitanks so now looking forward to better results now that the temp is dialed in.

 

[Tozzi]

Wow! Glad you finally figured it out.
Well, you had almost all other possible causes eliminated by now...
Good thing you realized this before accidentally making an "Eisbock"...

 

[MaltManMike]

Has anyone tried the spike conical heating pads on the ss brewtech unitanks? I have two 14 gal unitanks with inkbird hot+cold controllers. The brewtech heat pads appear to only have connectors for the ftss controller, but the spike pads can plug right into the inkbirds I already own. I realize I can find the fermentwrap or whatever, but it's trickier to source those outside the US and I like the plug and play of the spike pads.

 

[marjen]

So I just want to make sure anyone considering a unitank knows it really does not work well for 1/2 batches if you want to cold crash. Now that warmer air and humidity has arrived I can't get below 45 on a 1/2 batch. Temp in the room is around 72-73. Last time I cleaned it out I saw that only the last couple inches of the coil had hop debris on it, meaning thats all that reaches the beer. Through in a dump of trub during the crashing process makes it even worse. Even in the winter I only was able to get to 38-39 on a cold crash. I have yet to do a full batch in the 14g unitank so can't comment on its performance. Frustrating thing is before I bought they told me it would work with 1/2 batches.

So make sure you size according. I now wish I had the 7 g. I may by one next year. They have mentioned they might come out with a different coil, honestly they should provide one for free if they do, spike seems to have gotten this part right, I wish SSBT did.

 

[czmkid]

How do y’all clean the carb stone for storage between batches? Usually I drop it along with all of the fittings and tc parts in pbw....then rinse in 130 water....then iadaphore it before tank reassemble.

While I know this does t clean the pores I always boil it for about ten min and then soak it in iadaphore before putting it back onto the tank and filling it with the same while the brew day goes on to sanitize.

Well I spent a month in cozumel and came back to two fuzzy carb stones. So I am guessing that boilining them before reinserting them into the tank for any length of storage time is the way to go? I boiled both with pbw for ten, boiled in rince water for ten, soaked in starsans for ten, and finally in iadaphore for ten to clean. After this one stone has what can only be described as stains on it while the other came completely clean.

Hope I’m good to go an that this cleaning wiped out whatever was on there as I used this stone in the tank for yesterday’s brew and will b using the clean looking one in today’s brew.

 

[eltorrente]

So I just want to make sure anyone considering a unitank knows it really does not work well for 1/2 batches if you want to cold crash. Now that warmer air and humidity has arrived I can't get below 45 on a 1/2 batch. Temp in the room is around 72-73. Last time I cleaned it out I saw that only the last couple inches of the coil had hop debris on it, meaning thats all that reaches the beer. Through in a dump of trub during the crashing process makes it even worse. Even in the winter I only was able to get to 38-39 on a cold crash. I have yet to do a full batch in the 14g unitank so can't comment on its performance. Frustrating thing is before I bought they told me it would work with 1/2 batches.

So make sure you size according. I now wish I had the 7 g. I may by one next year. They have mentioned they might come out with a different coil, honestly they should provide one for free if they do, spike seems to have gotten this part right, I wish SSBT did.

Maybe you should try these coil extensions from SS brewtech: https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/copy-of-ftss-chiller-coil-extensions-7-gal

 

[Morrey]

So I just want to make sure anyone considering a unitank knows it really does not work well for 1/2 batches if you want to cold crash. Now that warmer air and humidity has arrived I can't get below 45 on a 1/2 batch. Temp in the room is around 72-73. Last time I cleaned it out I saw that only the last couple inches of the coil had hop debris on it, meaning thats all that reaches the beer. Through in a dump of trub during the crashing process makes it even worse. Even in the winter I only was able to get to 38-39 on a cold crash. I have yet to do a full batch in the 14g unitank so can't comment on its performance. Frustrating thing is before I bought they told me it would work with 1/2 batches.

So make sure you size according. I now wish I had the 7 g. I may by one next year. They have mentioned they might come out with a different coil, honestly they should provide one for free if they do, spike seems to have gotten this part right, I wish SSBT did.

After seeing several posts (including yours)...plus reading between the lines in a discussion with Ss, I got the distinct idea that crashing problems would exist with half batches in a uni tank. Ideally a 5.5G batch would be suitable in a 14G Uni to give some flexibility into your brewing schedule. HOWEVER, there were too many red flags waving so I heeded my gut feelings and bought two different size tanks designed for the batch size I'll be making. This seems to have been a good choice, but maybe Ss will address this problem with a design modification. I also hear Spike is having customer complaints about half batches but this is purely hearsay.

Maybe you should try these coil extensions from SS brewtech: https://www.ssbrewtech.com/products/copy-of-ftss-chiller-coil-extensions-7-gal

Uni tanks have a different coil configuration and unfortunately these extenders wont work for a Uni Tank.

 

[gyropilot1]

HELP!!! I have the perlick 4404 and trying to play with the programming parameters I F@@k the unit. Now it doesn't start.
There is no place in the world that show you that code CCL or HA or what ever, means and how to adjust it. I am starting my brewery with this chiller that I got very cheap I want to be able to control the fermentation temp and then later do a cold crash to 35'. But the only programming pdf I found in the internet , only show how to read hy and low. and to program the set value(? set what?) I am clueless beside messing with all the programming parameters

 

[gyropilot1]

I have 2 3.5bbl in series . It started to work fine but when I manage to find how to enter the factory programing parameter is when I screw up. So I need to know if there is a perlick expert that can walk me thru re programing it back.

 

[Morrey]

Opinion question: Do you feel 40F is low enough to crash my Uni Tanks a couple of days to settle out the beer before kegging? My brew cave in non-temp controlled, and the humidity now is like breathing water vapor. When I do a 35F crash, I got darn near a flooded floor from condensation. I can deal with it (mops and towels), but if 40F can work, this cuts my condensation considerably. Will 40F be acceptable before kegging?

 

[dunnry]

Opinion question: Do you feel 40F is low enough to crash my Uni Tanks a couple of days to settle out the beer before kegging? My brew cave in non-temp controlled, and the humidity now is like breathing water vapor. When I do a 35F crash, I got darn near a flooded floor from condensation. I can deal with it (mops and towels), but if 40F can work, this cuts my condensation considerably. Will 40F be acceptable before kegging?

I would think it would be fine. I do mine at 38 and force carb - that seems to be fine too. If you are carbing, it might not be as carbed as you would like, but I think you could fix that in a couple days in the kegerator.

 

[Morrey]

I would think it would be fine. I do mine at 38 and force carb - that seems to be fine too. If you are carbing, it might not be as carbed as you would like, but I think you could fix that in a couple days in the kegerator.

Thanks! I have been closing my BO valve when I get down to a SG reasonably close to FG to do some natural carbing. This gives me a head start so I can fine tune final carbing on CO2 in the keg.

I also ordered a Ss Spunding valve so I can do some controlled fermenting under pressure with a pre-set relief.

Sorry for the wandering, and I appreciate your thoughts that 40F will be ok to crash. As long as this temp is low enough to add gelatin finings and flocculate proteins and floating particulate in the beer, I am good. Thanks!

 

[czmkid]

I hear you with the condensation issues while cold crashing. Here in central texas I have the same problem but just deal with it by sopping up with shop towels. On the covers back patio so I don’t care about the water issue as much.

On another note, please share your thoughts and pix once you get the Ss Spunding valve set up. In the thread I started on that piece someone chimed in that our PRV could be set by the end user which makes this Ss part more attractive in theory. But like anything I want to hear from one of us before pulling the trigger. Which version did you purchase?