Dopplebock yeast quantity

[Wesori]

Im a new brewer and learning the hard way I need to think ahead a little more before getting started. I've brewed a 5 gallon doppelbock and this is the first time I've made something this strong with an OG of about 1.080. For yeast, I only bought one pack of White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager yeast, and at the time to pitch I'm realizing that I should have either made a yeast starter or bought 3 packs of yeast. I ended up letting the brew sit in a warmer place (65ish degrees) for 24 hours until it started bubbling every 30 seconds or so before moving it to a colder (51deg) place to ferment. I'm wondering if I should still buy and pitch another yeast packet or two, or what would happen if I just let it ferment as is?

 

[NotSure]

If you leave it as is, it could be OK. If you do this though, the worst case scenario is if the yeast appear to be at FG but in reality they are just slowly working and then you bottle. These could become bottle bombs. The best case scenario is that it'll be fine. The in-between scenario is that it'll stall.

If you pitch more yeast, you're going to have to make a starter and pitch while active.

If it were me, I'd (1) leave it as is and hope for the best, (2) raise temp as the activity is dying-down to help the yeast along, (3) give it extra time in the fermenter, and (4) if I think there's the slightest chance of bottle bombs I'd drink it as fast as I could in the interest of safety.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

If you have 3-4 days between stable gravity readings, I wouldn't worry about bottle bombs.

 

[NotSure]

If you have 3-4 days between stable gravity readings, I wouldn't worry about bottle bombs.

3-4 days of stable gravity usually works fine... unless you dramatically underpitch. I found this out the hard way with a Baltic Porter earlier in the year. The bottles never actually exploded, but it took me two days to clean the room in my house where I opened the gushing bottle. I bottled with a stable gravity reading over six days. The airlock was going ultra slow though, execept for the last couple days. But it had stable gravity, so I thought it was just degassing.

For the remaining bottles, I bled the pressure and discovered it was bottled eight points above FG. It took eight weeks to move the eight points.

 

[odie]

I've never used more than a single pack for any beer...even my 13% RIS.

leave it be and it will finish fine.

 

[davidabcd]

For the remaining bottles, I bled the pressure and discovered it was bottled eight points above FG. It took eight weeks to move the eight points.

You bottled with a FG eight points above what the recipe or predicted FG was supposed to be?
How much did you dramatically under pitch?
Even using a packet of dry yeast for a 10% beer hasn't had those kind of effects and that was for about ten or fifteen batches.
Readings four days apart will logically give at least a little difference if the beer is fermenting.
Was an infection ruled out?
Cheers.

 

[davidabcd]

OG of about 1.080. For yeast, I only bought one pack of White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager yeast,

I'm with many on this: it's fine.

 

[NotSure]

You bottled with a FG eight points above what the recipe or predicted FG was supposed to be?
How much did you dramatically under pitch?
Even using a packet of dry yeast for a 10% beer hasn't had those kind of effects and that was for about ten or fifteen batches.
Readings four days apart will logically give at least a little difference if the beer is fermenting.
Was an infection ruled out?
Cheers.

Looking back the recipe I was expecting somewhere between 1.021 to 1.018 for FG. I bottled at 1.021 and it ended-up at 1.013. I did mash on the low side.

Thought there was a chance it was an infection at first. It tasted fine though once done (and pressure relieved) and when the gravity was stable, it was for a week or so.

For 26 litres (6.8 gallons) @ 1.080, I pitched two Wyeast 2206 packs. If I recall correctly, they only swelled a little bit and I pitched cold.

I have had better luck with dry yeast as well and I'm using more of it these days.

@Wesori hopefully is fine, but knowing the worst that could (not will) happen might help.

 

[davidabcd]

Looking back

I don't see anything off there except maybe the 1.013 FG and I'm not sure if that's a possible byproduct of mash temp. The mystery is still the gravity not moving so many days apart. The only thing that makes sense is infection since you did the readings and all that. I'm assuming it spent some decent time in the primary. Over-priming the bottles is still off on the table. You know that chart for priming from Brewer's Friend where it talks about calculating the priming sugar based on the temperature that the beer was fermented at? I've run into that and got some gushers.
Maybe some others would, but I wouldn't call two packs "under pitching." One pack might have been a little light for the batch size but opinions vary. I was considering a severe under-pitch could have left the batch open to infection but I don't think so at all now because of two.
And pitching cold is what it is--just give a bit of a delay.
Dry is just too easy for me to pass up--two packs, bam, done. I do 5gal/19l and big ABVs though 10%-plus.
Edit: over priming doesn't account for the big FG change.

 

[NotSure]

I don't see anything off there except maybe the 1.013 FG and I'm not sure if that's a possible byproduct of mash temp. The mystery is still the gravity not moving so many days apart. The only thing that makes sense is infection since you did the readings and all that. I'm assuming it spent some decent time in the primary. Over-priming the bottles is still off the table. You know that chart for priming from Brewer's Friend where it talks about calculating the priming sugar based on the temperature that the beer was fermented at? I've run into that and got some gushers.
Maybe some others would, but I wouldn't call two packs "under pitching." One pack might have been a little light for the batch size but opinions vary. I was considering a severe under-pitch could have left the batch open to infection but I don't think so at all now because of two.
And pitching cold is what it is--just give a bit of a delay.
Dry is just too easy for me to pass up--two packs, bam, done. I do 5gal/19l and big ABVs though 10%-plus.

For priming bottles, I use the calculator on my own site: Brewingcalculators.com - Priming Sugar . The equation is from the Hall paper in Zymurgy 1995 and the amount of sugar I used for the Baltic Porter was reasonable compared with other calculators as well (140g sugar for the 23.5 litres bottled).

I put all this in a thread last year: Why underpitching yeast is bad. Worst (almost) case scenario. | Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

You may be right, and it may have been an infection. If it was though, it quit at 1.013, and it was a good tasting infection!

 

[davidabcd]

If it was though, it quit at 1.013, and it was a good tasting infection!

That's funny.
"Over priming due to temp" was actually a bad idea on my part considering all the info from the FG. I didn't think of that til later.
I remember that thread--wasn't too long ago.
The only thing I've had happen similarly (gravity readings aside but results looked just like yours) was when I added fruit to a wheat beer. I think the fruit started fermentation anew and I didn't account for it. Gushers all around. More disappointing was that the fruit flavor was perfect and I ignored all suggestions of backsweetening.
So I just stick to stouts, old ales and triples these days.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've done enough split batch yeast pitch experiments to know that underpitching is a major hitch in producing "excellent" beer. I'm not saying that underpitched beers won't ferment and usually reach final gravity. I'm suggesting that it generally makes estery lagers (not appropriate for the style) that often have other off flavor problems like diacetyl and acetaldehyde.

 

[Bobby_M]

For yeast, I only bought one pack of White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager yeast, and at the time to pitch I'm realizing that I should have either made a yeast starter or bought 3 packs of yeast.

One major factor is how old the pack was also. It loses about 50% viability every month it is in the package.

Let's be generous and say the pack was only a month old:

You'd still need 2 packs into a 4 liter starter.

 

[superiorsat]

One major factor is how old the pack was also. It loses about 50% viability every month it is in the package.

Let's be generous and say the pack was only a month old:
View attachment 760689

You'd still need 2 packs into a 4 liter starter.

View attachment 760691

Never stumbled across this software. What are you using? I'd like to take a peak. Thanks.

 

[Bobby_M]

Never stumbled across this software. What are you using? I'd like to take a peak. Thanks.

That particular one is the yeast tool in BrewFather but you can find a similar one on Brewersfriend.com and in the Beersmith software as well.

 

[Wesori]

An update for anyone who cares... After about one month of primary, FG measuring 1.018 (1.019 was target). I dont detect any odd smells. It tastes good, but a bit sweeter than I had expected, especially since FG is lower than target. So far, it would appear that using only one pack and no starter has had any negative impact. I plan to cold crash for a day or so and then transfer to a new container to lager for a while. Will the lagering reduce that sweetness further and how long should I let it go?

 

[Bobby_M]

Sweetness doesn't age out. It actually gets worse as oxidation takes hold. I'd get that beer into the final package sooner than later.