Don't Drink Beer

[bramsdell]

First off congrats man for doing the damn thing...always glad to have more podcasts...just not digging the format.

You're completely carrying the show. The other two jabronies aren't contributing much at all. The one dude bringing Modelo/Micheladas to the tasting segment is kinda funny once in a while, but it's already played out after doing it 2 times in a row. To balance out the co-hosts that don't know a ton about what you're talking about, it seems like a seriously imbedded beer nerd guest would help set everyone up for one liners and banter. Doesn't have to be anyone notable, just someone willing to chop it up. Obviously I'm judging it after 2 episodes, so I have no idea what y'all have planned.

probably should have included more commas in my review...Steve Body rolling over in his grave

Agreed. I definitely got some great laughs, but the level of beer nerdom of your average DDB reader wildly exceeds the two other hosts. Having one other person who would be on your level, which would also allow for deeper, nerdier beer/beer culture jokes, would probably be an improvement. That said, it's funny as ****.

 

[drgarage1]

Agreed. I definitely got some great laughs, but the level of beer nerdom of your average DDB reader wildly exceeds the two other hosts. Having one other person who would be on your level, which would also allow for deeper, nerdier beer/beer culture jokes, would probably be an improvement. That said, it's funny as ****.

<coughs>

 

[primebeer]

First off congrats man for doing the damn thing...always glad to have more podcasts...just not digging the format.

You're completely carrying the show. The other two jabronies aren't contributing much at all. The one dude bringing Modelo/Micheladas to the tasting segment is kinda funny once in a while, but it's already played out after doing it 2 times in a row. To balance out the co-hosts that don't know a ton about what you're talking about, it seems like a seriously imbedded beer nerd guest would help set everyone up for one liners and banter. Doesn't have to be anyone notable, just someone willing to chop it up. Obviously I'm judging it after 2 episodes, so I have no idea what y'all have planned.

probably should have included more commas in my review...Steve Body rolling over in his grave

I’m going to disagree here. I think the balance of hardcore, medium, and novice beer person provides a nice balance to the show. Honestly, some of my favorite parts of the first two podcasts have been the almost cringe-y explanations of ridiculous beer nerd things. Fully enjoyed. I also think it provides a nice level-setting to be knocked down a few notches by putting the rare beers and their cost into context. Guilty as charged on drinking and trading for nice bottles, and it’s nice to laugh at myself sometimes at the ridiculousness of what we do in the name of our hobby.

That said, I do think some beer nerds guests would be fun as it would tee off a bunch of teasing and banter for the two guys that aren’t as deep into beer, like you said.

Also, I knew Michael Gabriel in college and it’s hilarious to hear him in this context, so I definitely have some bias.

 

[jmgrub]

Listening to b2 right now. Think you guys are off to a good start. I think that, over time, you will find the right balance between beer nerd and more general appeal.

I'm sure you hate requests, but a segment on terrible beer reviews could have some potential. Pretty easy to find some terrible, hilarious **** on B**r A******e

 

[sacrelicio]

First off congrats man for doing the damn thing...always glad to have more podcasts...just not digging the format.

You're completely carrying the show. The other two jabronies aren't contributing much at all. The one dude bringing Modelo/Micheladas to the tasting segment is kinda funny once in a while, but it's already played out after doing it 2 times in a row. To balance out the co-hosts that don't know a ton about what you're talking about, it seems like a seriously imbedded beer nerd guest would help set everyone up for one liners and banter. Doesn't have to be anyone notable, just someone willing to chop it up. Obviously I'm judging it after 2 episodes, so I have no idea what y'all have planned.

probably should have included more commas in my review...Steve Body rolling over in his grave

I expected a more eggheaded, collaborative comment out of you.

 

[swivelhips1]

I think episode 3 was a big improvement in terms of balancing the aforementioned hardcore / medium / novice trio of hosts. I know you said you didn't plan the NorCal theme, but it worked really well, and being able to talk about trends in clean, low abv well executed classic styles via Anchor was great.

Which brings me to a podcast question:

Will you put a guess to when we will see a decline in fruited beers and a return to well very well executed riffs on classic styles? While this question equally applies to berliner / gose / sour ipa / milkshake ipa / whatever fruited thing is next, I am more specifically thinking about saisons. We have seen a progression from fruiting beers with things like puree, to the high-end market moving towards sourcing local, whole fruit (i.e Casey) or working with purveyors of high end fruit (e.g cquiroga), but a lot of fruit beers are hiding something more beautiful underneath or just masking the flaws of the base beer. I'm not sure there is a stonefruit beer in existence that is better than just eating one of Chris' peaches. Give me a Stenciled Pages over Westly any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Tlo4sho]

Give me a Stenciled Pages over Westly any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I agree, give me an unfruited saison or gueze any day. Fruit can definitely be a distraction from the beer at times. Good luck finding a SP. Westly on the other hand, is in abundance after the last cellar sale.

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I think episode 3 was a big improvement in terms of balancing the aforementioned hardcore / medium / novice trio of hosts. I know you said you didn't plan the NorCal theme, but it worked really well, and being able to talk about trends in clean, low abv well executed classic styles via Anchor was great.

Which brings me to a podcast question:

Will you put a guess to when we will see a decline in fruited beers and a return to well very well executed riffs on classic styles? While this question equally applies to berliner / gose / sour ipa / milkshake ipa / whatever fruited thing is next, I am more specifically thinking about saisons. We have seen a progression from fruiting beers with things like puree, to the high-end market moving towards sourcing local, whole fruit (i.e Casey) or working with purveyors of high end fruit (e.g cquiroga), but a lot of fruit beers are hiding something more beautiful underneath or just masking the flaws of the base beer. I'm not sure there is a stonefruit beer in existence that is better than just eating one of Chris' peaches. Give me a Stenciled Pages over Westly any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

http://www.latimes.com/food/la-fo-masumoto-peach-beer-20160819-snap-story.html

TIL that Chris is a fruit broker and probably the conduit behind the amazing Matsumoto fruit that another friend (Shad) sources for Bottle Logic among others.

 

[iong516]

a lot of fruit beers are hiding something more beautiful underneath or just masking the flaws of the base beer. I'm not sure there is a [...] fruit beer in existence that is better than just eating (fruit and drinking the base beer). Give me a Stenciled Pages over Westly any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

This. All of this. I've considered making memes about it.

 

[cquiroga]

I think episode 3 was a big improvement in terms of balancing the aforementioned hardcore / medium / novice trio of hosts. I know you said you didn't plan the NorCal theme, but it worked really well, and being able to talk about trends in clean, low abv well executed classic styles via Anchor was great.

Which brings me to a podcast question:

Will you put a guess to when we will see a decline in fruited beers and a return to well very well executed riffs on classic styles? While this question equally applies to berliner / gose / sour ipa / milkshake ipa / whatever fruited thing is next, I am more specifically thinking about saisons. We have seen a progression from fruiting beers with things like puree, to the high-end market moving towards sourcing local, whole fruit (i.e Casey) or working with purveyors of high end fruit (e.g cquiroga), but a lot of fruit beers are hiding something more beautiful underneath or just masking the flaws of the base beer. I'm not sure there is a stonefruit beer in existence that is better than just eating one of Chris' peaches. Give me a Stenciled Pages over Westly any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'm obviously biased (although I suppose I was tagged here so I could weigh in on this), but I don't really agree with the argument in this. I mean, I think there is sort of a false narrative or false dichotomy/trichotomy set up here. I absolutely love "beer that tastes like beer," so I can relate to a yearning for more vocal appreciation of "classic styles," but I just don't see that fruited beers have exactly taken over the world, to the detriment of anything else.... Are you really having trouble finding great examples of non-fruited saisons? Stenciled Pages exists, and Westly can exist too.

And if you say the unadulterated Masumoto fruit is amazing (I agree, it is), I can't see how that says anything negative about stonefruit beer... These are two different things. Luckily, we can have both. If anything, it sounds like I almost feel the opposite as you do about the excitement around these adjuncts-- that it's really awesome to see brewers and drinkers that have access to and heartily embrace using these high-quality ingredients.

To me, this is a tremendous boon for craft beer and craft beer drinkers in general-- it's a sign of maturation of the market, with a much greater diversity of offerings all along the spectrum(s)... of cost, "intensity," quality, etc.

And I'm not sure I agree with the point about fruit beers "hiding something more beautiful underneath" either, and certainly not "just masking the flaws of the base beer." With regard to Masumoto fruited beers in particular, I've always said that I don't think the excellent fruit can take a bad beer and make it good, but that I think it can take a good beer and make it great. I know this could be inflammatory, and I hope it's obvious that that's not the reason I'm asking, but can you name any specific examples?

That said, I admit that the beers I tend to prefer in this vein are the ones with sort of a "less is more" approach-- where the fruit is dialed somewhat down in intensity, serving as more of an accent note rather than an in-your-face explosion of character-- where more of the base beer can poke through. But to each his own.

I just don't think there is any real need for a paradigm shift or a pendulum swinging back away from fruit. Virtually every brewer I can think of that is using this Masumoto fruit in their saisons also has tasty offerings of non-fruited saisons that are at least as readily available as the fruited beers (Sante Adairius, Cellador Ales, Homage, Highland Park, Monkish, Resident...) Arguably not Modern Times, now that I think about it. But that's a pretty good hit rate of delicious, non-fruited saisons, if you ask me.

Very curious to hear other people's thoughts on this. Is this a commonly-shared sentiment, that fruit beers are somehow ruining other beers?

 

[reverseapachemaster1]

Very curious to hear other people's thoughts on this. Is this a commonly-shared sentiment, that fruit beers are somehow ruining other beers?

Ruining is probably not the right context. More that fruited beers crowd out the same styles without fruit. In my experience if I go to a taproom or look at a lineup from a brewery 99% of the time if there are five farmhouse or sour beers at least four of them will be fruited. There's not anywhere near as much attention paid to putting out the same styles without fruit across the board.

Some of this is just where craft beer is right now. Consumers want fruit beer and they will pay premium prices for them--and not just within sours or saisons. All the hazy IPAs with and without fruit are all filled with fruit flavors. Some of that may back off but it's hard to imagine it goes away with sour/saison/farmhouse/whatever.

Some of it is where craft beer has always been. There is a market for non-fruited saisons but I don't remember a time where, at least in this country, there was a market for breweries to just put out sour beer without fruited options. Those of us who generally prefer sour beer without fruit is a niche within a niche within a niche. Why fight to build that audience when you can make an arbor mist sour and charge $25/12oz.

 

[swivelhips1]

although I suppose I was tagged here so I could weigh in on this

Yes, and I thank you for the thoughtful response. I think one reason we all enjoy the brown bag shares and Woodshop is your love for bringing people together to celebrate the production of such a high-quality beers is on full display at these events. Making these kinds of beers is a labor of love, and I am glad people like you are involved in it.

I've always said that I don't think the excellent fruit can take a bad beer and make it good, but that I think it can take a good beer and make it great. I know this could be inflammatory, and I hope it's obvious that that's not the reason I'm asking, but can you name any specific examples?

I don't think this beer used Masumoto fruit, but a recent example was I thought Highland Park Brewery's Science Sucks was much better than Science Sucks with Apricots and I would have much rather seen the whole batch come to market unfruited. I will agree that a bad base beer will not be improved with fruit, but I do think it is easier to mask imperfections in the base beer when fruited. I think breweries like HPB (and the others you mention) that release unfruited and fruited versions of their beers is the exception today. We might just be privileged in California to have breweries with the maturity to do this. Which brings me back to my original DDB question, are we going to see more breweries moving in this direction where we can get the fruited and unfruited version? Even places that do release unfruited beers, like Casey, have said they have trouble selling the unfruited versions. I am wondering if we get to a point where the unfruited beers don't have trouble selling?

Very curious to hear other people's thoughts on this. Is this a commonly-shared sentiment, that fruit beers are somehow ruining other beers?

Maybe I didn't phrase this well in my original post, but its not that I think fruit is ruining other beers, its just that the intensity of flavor I get from biting into a peach is never going to be matched by a beer. And while combining that fruit flavor with a beer does produce a very different flavor profile (and one I enjoy!), I just personally prefer the end-member experience of the pure expression of eating fruit or drinking a saison, not something that melds the two. Maybe I wrote my original post in a bit of an inflammatory way (this is a DDB thread after all). TrysteroCoffee and I were just raving last weekend about how amazing HPB Occupied Space was. But for me, when I am sitting around being a nerd and mulling over the best beers I have had, the ones that truely stand out did it without fruit.

 

[trickytunadicky]

Ruining is probably not the right context. More that fruited beers crowd out the same styles without fruit. In my experience if I go to a taproom or look at a lineup from a brewery 99% of the time if there are five farmhouse or sour beers at least four of them will be fruited. There's not anywhere near as much attention paid to putting out the same styles without fruit across the board.

Some of this is just where craft beer is right now. Consumers want fruit beer and they will pay premium prices for them--and not just within sours or saisons. All the hazy IPAs with and without fruit are all filled with fruit flavors. Some of that may back off but it's hard to imagine it goes away with sour/saison/farmhouse/whatever.

Some of it is where craft beer has always been. There is a market for non-fruited saisons but I don't remember a time where, at least in this country, there was a market for breweries to just put out sour beer without fruited options. Those of us who generally prefer sour beer without fruit is a niche within a niche within a niche. Why fight to build that audience when you can make an arbor mist sour and charge $25/12oz.

It's not just beer. It's happening in mead, too. There has been a trend to do bigger meads with a thicker mouthfeel (overwhelming the yeast with tons of honey or back-sweetening after fermentation has been halted), plus loading them up with tons of fruits, particularly big tannic ones like currants, raspberries, blackberries, and peanut butter (PB 2 or boiled peanut water for the must).

It's getting to a point where while I like a few ounces of the style, I really can't drink all that much. Honey is really acidic, as are a lot of the popular fruits for this. It messes with my acid reflux for one, and I would rather have a bigger glass of something with a lighter touch than a 2 oz pour of something that has been heavy laden with fruit and honey to the point of asking why did you bother fermenting this...

If you dial it back, make smart choices with fermentation temperature, yeast, a good honey, and just enough fruit, everything gets to shine and you can enjoy a whole glass.

 

[rcubed1]

It's not just beer. It's happening in mead, too. There has been a trend to do bigger meads with a thicker mouthfeel (overwhelming the yeast with tons of honey or back-sweetening after fermentation has been halted), plus loading them up with tons of fruits, particularly big tannic ones like currants, raspberries, blackberries, and peanut butter (PB 2 or boiled peanut water for the must).

It's getting to a point where while I like a few ounces of the style, I really can't drink all that much. Honey is really acidic, as are a lot of the popular fruits for this. It messes with my acid reflux for one, and I would rather have a bigger glass of something with a lighter touch than a 2 oz pour of something that has been heavy laden with fruit and honey to the point of asking why did you bother fermenting this...

If you dial it back, make smart choices with fermentation temperature, yeast, a good honey, and just enough fruit, everything gets to shine and you can enjoy a whole glass.

And cider. And sake. And ????

 

[trickytunadicky]

And cider. And sake. And ????

Everyone wants to have the beetus.

 

[Rau711]

dontdrinkbeer big bubbas BBQ is gross as ****. The only reason they are in business are because of valley rats and people going to events at the fair. And the reason the fest has a redneck vibe is because it is technically a fundraiser for the pioneer day of Paso Robles.
Paso is a redneck town, but we try to pretend to be a fancy wine town.

 

[Iliketurtles]

dontdrinkbeer is right that guisados is amazing. Fortunately my friends live right near one. I always go there right when they open at nine and eat 4 breakfast tacos. Amazing. Chorizo con queso is my go to for dinner. MMM.

 

[richiesd]

dontdrinkbeer is right that guisados is amazing. Fortunately my friends live right near one. I always go there right when they open at nine and eat 4 breakfast tacos. Amazing. Chorizo con queso is my go to for dinner. MMM.

gotta get one of those al and bea combo burritos for the ultimate boyle heights experience

 

[dontdrinkbeer]

dontdrinkbeer big bubbas BBQ is gross as ****. The only reason they are in business are because of valley rats and people going to events at the fair. And the reason the fest has a redneck vibe is because it is technically a fundraiser for the pioneer day of Paso Robles.
Paso is a redneck town, but we try to pretend to be a fancy wine town.

80% of the fun is literally eating in that jail cell and overtipping the incredibly tolerant servers

 

[dontdrinkbeer]

dontdrinkbeer is right that guisados is amazing. Fortunately my friends live right near one. I always go there right when they open at nine and eat 4 breakfast tacos. Amazing. Chorizo con queso is my go to for dinner. MMM.

Oh man that post turned into tacowars2018

Had no idea tacos could be a toxic topic

 

[Rau711]

80% of the fun is literally eating in that jail cell and overtipping the incredibly tolerant servers

I'm just saying, of all the mediocre places to eat in town, you pick the worst.

 

[dontdrinkbeer]

I'm just saying, of all the mediocre places to eat in town, you pick the worst.

My pick was very intentional, it was after a sun stroked fest of stupid **** and it’s walking distance and you can eat in a jail cell

If you think this wasn’t completely designed for pure Central Valley amazing experience then you are wildly out of touch

 

[Rau711]

My pick was very intentional, it was after a sun stroked fest of stupid **** and it’s walking distance and you can eat in a jail cell

If you think this wasn’t completely designed for pure Central Valley amazing experience then you are wildly out of touch

Very true, could have very well been a highway 99 meth corridor reunion. You are the target market.

 

[iong516]

your average DDB reader

 

[dontdrinkbeer]

DDB and Malt Couture are doing an AMA on Reddit r/beer right now!

ask away, nothing is too attenuated.

Yes I realize driving traffic away from an AMA to an AMA is absurd, such is the crushing kafkaesque beer world in the post-click era of digital marketing, the sword of damacles hanging ever wanting, each of us falling like Persephone indulging on pomegranate seeds of malty succor


(Link to media)

 

[brentsdodgers]

Yes I realize driving traffic away from an AMA to an AMA is absurd

Yes because this thread is so active...

 

[Brew33]

I had to share.... From a bottle shop near me.


(Link to media)

 

[user 306926]

Serious... do you think MG adds anything to the podcast besides voices. This is not quite the podcast I expected. If I wanted yet another podcast explaining the basics of beer styles and reviewing **** troll beers from MG I'd listen to every other beer podcast.
****** Blah Couture.

Just checked FB... no way is MG a comedy writer.

 

[iong516]

https://dontdrinkbeer.com/2014/02/2...o-not-either-almost-no-one-brews-lambic-ever/

 

[dontdrinkbeer]

https://dontdrinkbeer.com/2014/02/2...o-not-either-almost-no-one-brews-lambic-ever/

Haha holy **** I don’t even remember writing that