DFH gets a lot of flak for being so popular and doing brewmasters as well as going outside the guidelines of what a style should be. That being said I have enjoyed several of their beers. A few of my favorites are Burton Baton, Palo Santo, and Indian Brown. I also feel Sam has been nothing but a positive influence on the craft industry and is always the first guy to give credit to other breweries that came before and after him. If the beer is not your thing then its not your thing but to simply hate on him for selling out of beer is just silly and seems a byproduct of envy. Who wouldn't want a beer that can't stay on the shelf?
Dogfish Head Reduces Distribution
- Thread starter Pennsyltucky
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PanzerBanana
Well-Known Member
It still irks me. "Somebody else wants some beer now, to bad for you". My girlfriend really likes a couple of DF brews. I'm not a regular drinker but I really like how they do their thing. It's just the point....
The only thing that would make sense is if the fan base in the dropped states was so low in comparison they're an acceptable loss. I still think it would have been better entertain reducing distribution just for the sake of the most supportive fans in those areas.
The only thing that would make sense is if the fan base in the dropped states was so low in comparison they're an acceptable loss. I still think it would have been better entertain reducing distribution just for the sake of the most supportive fans in those areas.
SourHopHead
Well-Known Member
I can only get DFH when I travel. NM beer selection is terrible unless we drink local. So many I want to try and I just try and get what I can.
It sucks but I respect their decision. They've been running full steam production for a LONG time. Whenever they add new expansions, they're immediately back to full steam. Its sustainable for some sprints, but not for a long term (and that goes for any business, not just brewing). They'd rather scale things back so that their largest markets are well supplied, and then slowly grow into newer markets. Its a sound business move. As for anyone who can't get DFH, we have plenty here in the North East, so let me know when you're coming and I'll pick up a case for you 
As for people who say DFH makes crappy beer, you obviously haven't tried all of their beers. Comparing WWS to 120 to Nut Brown to Red and White to Raison... well, there's no comparison. They're completely different brews, and they're all fantastic.
They didn't start the craft brew biz in the US, and they weren't the first brewing crazy styles (hell, just look at Anchor and Sam Adams). They made their name through shrugging standards and saying that style guides are BS, making a consistently great product, and marketing. Frankly, I agree with their stand on brewing standards and guidelines. Standards shouldn't constrain us.
As for people who don't like them purely because of price... well, certain things cost money. I have a 1970 bottle of dom perignon in my house that is worth god knows what. I have numerous vintage bottles. I regularly spend 20+ dollars on a bottle of beer. Moreso, I usually buy the bottles in groups of threes so I can have one to drink, and two to age. Why? I love vintage beers, and I love the idea of having a wine and beer cellar one day. Hell, I almost bought a 120$ Methuselah of Chimay grande yesterday purely to cellar.
Ok, off my soapbox. It sucks for those of you who won't be able to get your hands on it Take it as a business opportunity to brew some extreme beers yourself!
As for people who say DFH makes crappy beer, you obviously haven't tried all of their beers. Comparing WWS to 120 to Nut Brown to Red and White to Raison... well, there's no comparison. They're completely different brews, and they're all fantastic.
They didn't start the craft brew biz in the US, and they weren't the first brewing crazy styles (hell, just look at Anchor and Sam Adams). They made their name through shrugging standards and saying that style guides are BS, making a consistently great product, and marketing. Frankly, I agree with their stand on brewing standards and guidelines. Standards shouldn't constrain us.
As for people who don't like them purely because of price... well, certain things cost money. I have a 1970 bottle of dom perignon in my house that is worth god knows what. I have numerous vintage bottles. I regularly spend 20+ dollars on a bottle of beer. Moreso, I usually buy the bottles in groups of threes so I can have one to drink, and two to age. Why? I love vintage beers, and I love the idea of having a wine and beer cellar one day. Hell, I almost bought a 120$ Methuselah of Chimay grande yesterday purely to cellar.
Ok, off my soapbox. It sucks for those of you who won't be able to get your hands on it
Take it as a business opportunity to brew some extreme beers yourself!
maltbarleyhops
Well-Known Member
similar to qoute from the owner of Bells. spoken to a friend of mine in a restaurant. He told me "when i was telling him how much i enjoyed Hopslam every year, even in Michigan its hard to get (cause it sells out so fast) he said 'i could probably bottle piss, hop it and id sell more than i could piss', i then, cancelled my next beer, which was an Oberon and ordered a Fat Tire"
...and he hasnt purchased a Bells product since.
...Do they get to a point when they forget that the consumer is their lifes blood?
rico567
Well-Known Member
I don't really get the point here. My understanding is that DFH was scaling back their distribution so that they could fully serve a given customer base. As I remarked earlier in this thread, I was told the same thing by an owner of Newport Storm. I see the statement by Bell's owner as just being another version of the same philosophy. I understand it, I think it's good business, and if I ran a brewery I'd like to think I'd keep a clear eye on becoming overextended.
This being the Internet, I hasten to add that YMMV, you can obviously drink what you like, and "not that there's anything wrong with that."
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
yeah i don't think this is what sam's doing.
i mean, imagine if you couldn't find your favorite local 6-pack in stores because they were shipping it all over the place.
the reason DFH is big is because the locals bought a lot of beer over the last 15 years.
scottland
Well-Known Member
The Brewmaster's show was filmed in spring/summer of 2010. So the expension was already in place before show aired. With the show airing, DFH beers were insanely hard to find here in AZ. They were sold out pretty much everywhere.
I understand where they are coming from. They had an artifical spike in demand due to the show; think of it as a bubble. There's three responses they can make to that: A. Increase supply, B. Increase prices, or c. Decrease distribution. They did the later. Smart move if you ask me. They won't dilute their brand, they'll keep demand high for their beer, and they won't grow toobig. The bubble of demand for DFH will eventually burst. People probably found the show really fun to watch, but most people who drink BMC won't like an IIPA at first sip.
The states they pulled distribution from were probably the states with the fewest sales, the weakest distribution, or any other number of reasons. DFH isn't forgetting about their customers, they're protecting their brand.
I understand where they are coming from. They had an artifical spike in demand due to the show; think of it as a bubble. There's three responses they can make to that: A. Increase supply, B. Increase prices, or c. Decrease distribution. They did the later. Smart move if you ask me. They won't dilute their brand, they'll keep demand high for their beer, and they won't grow toobig. The bubble of demand for DFH will eventually burst. People probably found the show really fun to watch, but most people who drink BMC won't like an IIPA at first sip.
The states they pulled distribution from were probably the states with the fewest sales, the weakest distribution, or any other number of reasons. DFH isn't forgetting about their customers, they're protecting their brand.
Well...look at what happened to Krispy Kreme. They expanded much too fast, couldn't keep their stores stocked, so eventually customers decided, "This place sucks, they never have ________ in stock"
So the company lost profit and had to shut down nearly all the stores it recently opened.
If you can only buy a bottle of DFH every couple of months, you're going to soon stop buying their product (even when it is in stock) in favor of another beer you can acquire more readily. It sucks for the consumers in those areas, but makes sense in the long-run.
They can then relaunch distribution in those areas at a later date, in much greater volume, giving them much greater market appeal.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
lol
lol why was that funny?
I don't think they're having an increase in production, I believe they already operate and will continue to operate at their current capacity. They are trying to keep from having to increase production even more to keep up with demand, hence the reason for this business move. They are just decreasing in distribution markets. I doubt any savings will be had by the consumer for this.
As for me personally, it blows because I live in TN where they are cutting distribution and I for one really like DFH beers and attribute Sam's reckless style as a big influence in my own home brewing adventures. I was just starting to be able to find DFH at several local quick marts close to home and even at a few restaurants, so I surely wasn't expecting this news. On an up note though, I've got my process down on a 60min IPA clone that is out of this world so I will be alright! (BTW, It's Yooper's recipe, you can do a search for the thread on this site and trust me, its fantastic)
I will miss the Punkin and other seasonal/special brews though. Oh well, looks like I have even more reason to keep on brewing!
Well isn't the purpose of expanding brewery capacity to increase production?
I think at some point, one would have to ask himself, why am i doing this? Am I a brewer or the head of a corporation? Am I in this because i love the art of brewing or am i in this to make as much money as possible? At some point, DFH was going to become a monster that consumed itself and went beyond Sam's control. Considering, he's filthy rich either way, why not keep things at a reasonable level, keep your monster in check (or your bubble from getting too big and bursting). A true brewer at heart loves his craft. He can design new beers, be as outlandish as he wants and not fall under such great scrutiny as a behemoth brewer. Say Sam Adams makes a brew, they ship it out all over the country, but wait, it doesn't get good feedback, well now Sam Adams has damaged it's brand and now people are less likely to try new things from Sam Adams b/c they're so big so they should know what they're doing, and yada yada. Sam Adams can't experiment. As brewers, i think most of u can agree that we like to experiment, try to make something unique that's our own, and damned if it doesn't turn out awful sometimes. Sam's just a brewer. His whole mantra is about experimenting. You can't have a successful mega brewery that spends half their time experimenting. But if you scale it back, you can do whatever you want and chock it up to your eccentricity. Meanwhile, you can stay in the same class as most of the other microbreweries around the world and not have to be like sam adams. Don't get me wrong, i love sam adams and they do make some really great beers, but when i go to my local microbrew store, i never ever reach for sam adams, it's always the smaller brew that feels more hands on and home grown. Maybe DFH was becoming the next sam adams and wanted to reign itself in and continue being one of those beers we all reach for when we go to the store. You can't blame Sam for wanting to love his craft lest it become more than him and consumed him. I feel bad that some people can't get DFH now, but there's a lot of beers that i can't get, and i live in a beer market. Prost to Sam for having some brewer's integrity.
are u serious or are you mocking us?
Hoosier-Brewer
Well-Known Member
This news sucks! I'm in Indiana and I'm already having a hard time finding the 60 and 90 Minute IPA's. I bought everything the local liquor store and Kroger had, which was only 1 4 pack of 90 and 2 6ers of 60 and those are almost gone. Guess I need a 60 Minute clone to try soon.
looks like DFH has already inspired you to be a better brewer
Neither. My point was not to mock. I've only had DFH twice. Once when vacationing in Vegas, and once when I did a big shopping spree in Colorado.
I thought their beer was fabulous, but suspect the allure of unavailability was part of the experience. I have plenty of "great" beer available to me, but am unable to get any of the "legendary" beers here (Stone, Russian River, DFH, etc). Somehow, I survive. In fact, I suspect that the rarity of tasting such brews adds to the fact that I love them so.
Mostly, I thought it would be a funny comment.
Thakog
Well-Known Member
To be clear, I don't think that's what Sam is doing or thinking, I'm just saying his reputation has outgrown him.
maltbarleyhops
Well-Known Member
im enjoying all the points being made here. and it doesnt matter that much to me which one is correct. it just pisses me off (whatever the reason) when i can get a good beer thats a bit different, and i really enjoy it, then some ********* decides that it wont be distributed to this area anymore.
call it selfish if you want. i hate it when this happens, for whatever reason, for whoevers sake, yada, yada, yada.
bottom line - there is yet another beer that i enjoy, no longer available to me. so since i cant have it, DFH can piss off.
THE LIST-
pyramid brews - for absorbing Mactarnahans Brewery and doing away with Blackwatch oatmeal cream porter
AB/inbev - for bastardizing beer
schlafly/st louis brewery - for never letting st louis have kentucky bourbon cask ale
bells brewery - because hopslam shouldnt be 17.99 a sixer. but ill continue to buy my yearly case.
...ok, my soapbox is officially been thrown in the fire.
cheers to all!!!
call it selfish if you want. i hate it when this happens, for whatever reason, for whoevers sake, yada, yada, yada.
bottom line - there is yet another beer that i enjoy, no longer available to me. so since i cant have it, DFH can piss off.
THE LIST-
pyramid brews - for absorbing Mactarnahans Brewery and doing away with Blackwatch oatmeal cream porter
AB/inbev - for bastardizing beer
schlafly/st louis brewery - for never letting st louis have kentucky bourbon cask ale
bells brewery - because hopslam shouldnt be 17.99 a sixer. but ill continue to buy my yearly case.
...ok, my soapbox is officially been thrown in the fire.
cheers to all!!!
Ha. That's funny that you say that b/c Palo Santo is the only DFH beer I've tried that I DID NOT like at all. Tasted like it was mixed with sawdust, lol. Could be a freshness factor or something. But all other's I've tried have been great. Oh well, no matter anyways b/c I live in TN and therefore am S.O.L. We never got any of the really cool specialty stuff anyways I dont believe. I've never even seen 120min or Burton Baton? or some of these others you guys know.
Dude, trust me, search for Yooper's 60min clone recipe on this site. You will not miss dogfish 60 or 90 at all!
I understand what you're saying, but I think the timeline is off (either yours or mine). I think the expansion you're referring to has already been in place for a while now and they are already starting to outgrow it. In order to keep from expanding even more, distro cut.
please correct me if Im mistaken on this...
One more point I want to make on this and I will stop flooding the thread:
I guess I'm kinda confused on the market or DFH. I always thought of them as a specialty brand. I don't think of any DFH as session beers. I never have sat around and downed a 4pack of Midas Touch or needed my daily 120min IPA fix. I drink them occasionally and sparringly. One because they are usually higher ABV beers and two because they are damn expensive. Is the supply of this beer really so under demand that you guys in the states they are keeping distribution to really having a hard time finding it and starting to get pissy at the company about it? Who can afford DFH as their daily drinking beer? Seems like they could keep/reduce supply in all markets without completely eliminating entire states and still have a demand high enough for people to pay $15 or more for a 6er of beer. There are lots of breweries smaller that DFH getting their beer to us, albeit in small quantities. The fact that it is harder to find makes it kinda cool and special, but being impossible to get makes them irrelevant...
I guess I'm kinda confused on the market or DFH. I always thought of them as a specialty brand. I don't think of any DFH as session beers. I never have sat around and downed a 4pack of Midas Touch or needed my daily 120min IPA fix. I drink them occasionally and sparringly. One because they are usually higher ABV beers and two because they are damn expensive. Is the supply of this beer really so under demand that you guys in the states they are keeping distribution to really having a hard time finding it and starting to get pissy at the company about it? Who can afford DFH as their daily drinking beer? Seems like they could keep/reduce supply in all markets without completely eliminating entire states and still have a demand high enough for people to pay $15 or more for a 6er of beer. There are lots of breweries smaller that DFH getting their beer to us, albeit in small quantities. The fact that it is harder to find makes it kinda cool and special, but being impossible to get makes them irrelevant...
Perhaps. To my knowledge they only started expanding late last summer, and I was viewing this distribution cut as them taking time to get their new equipment up to speed, bang out all the kinks, switch their big sellers (60-minute) to the newer bigger tanks, clean the other tanks, formulate new recipes for their future larger distribution, etc.
As for price, its not THAT expensive. Only about $1.85/per bottle of 60-minute, then maybe $3.99 per bottle of the high ABV brews.
Even BMC sells for ~$1.10 per bottle or so. ($6.50 for a 6'er of Coors light)
ArtVandelay
Well-Known Member
FFFFF!
Recently stone pulled out of WI and now DFH? come on!
Recently stone pulled out of WI and now DFH? come on!
Hoosier-Brewer
Well-Known Member
I visited 6 liquor stores on my way home and only 2 had any DFH so I bought them both out of 60 and 90 Minute IPA. That was only 6 6's of 60 and 4 4's of 90 minute, but he said he would get me a couple of more cases this weekend. 
That should get me by for a bit until I can get a clone recipe together. I like to have a few DFH IPA's during the week, maybe a 6er,but sometimes a few more.
That should get me by for a bit until I can get a clone recipe together. I like to have a few DFH IPA's during the week, maybe a 6er,but sometimes a few more.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
upperNY01brewer
Well-Known Member
Readily available in upstate New York but very pricey. $15.00 for a 4pack of Burton Baton. Love it but......hard to justify $15.00 on a 4pack when I can spend that much on 2 6packs of another fine brew that I can get my hands on.
munche
Well-Known Member
I'm torn, because while I thought you had to be 21 to drink here, some people are responding like spoiled children to DFH trying to preserve the quality of their beer rather than dilute it. I'm sure these same people are praising BMC for always having a beer available to them, right?
bluesman88
Member
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I was talking to the DFH engineering manager at our brewclub meeting at The Dogfish Brewpub last week and he said they are in the process of a huge expansion right now. They have three brand new fermenters that they are installing and hope to have up and running by August. He said that it was an agressive schedule but could be done.
It's not that they want to cut back but they have a capacity issue right now. So stay tuned folks.
DFH is on the rise!
It's not that they want to cut back but they have a capacity issue right now. So stay tuned folks.
DFH is on the rise!
count_dookie
Well-Known Member
well they really only have two options for dealing with their lack of supply until they can build the capacity, pull out of some markets or raise price. I'm not a regular buyer but I know I would be even less regular if they were more expensive
linuxbgood
Member
I dont think thats true, I love their beer but their red and white is horse piss haha and it dosnt move on the shelves around here.
drinkmybeeryo
Member
You're so right man! He's staying true to what craft brewing is all about! We've all seen BEER WARS! He probably did the tv show to get extra money to give his business a jump start, most likely not expecting it to be such a huge affect! I don't blame him! He will expand and grow when ready, not just be impulsive!
Here's the problem: If this were true (and Im not saying it's not, bluesman) then why wouldn't Sam put something to this effect in the topic blog. If it was stated that this is a temporary capacity issue that is in the works of being remedied by an expansion, this would have been much better received than the 'sorry bout ya luck folks, I need the beer you would normally buy from me cuz my distributors in other areas don't get all that they could sell' and then blame it on the fact that he doesn't want to grow the company too fast. It just doesn't check out. I don't wanna be a whiner cuz I can't buy some of the beer I want, truth is I'm getting pretty good with this home brewing thing and I'm making about 70% of my stash these days anyways. It's just that I was really rooting for DFH and this move has really left a bad taste in my and many other's mouth...yea pun
He definitely inferred it. It is a little obscure though. He says he won't be able to put any stock on shelves in those states in 2011. If it were permanent, wouldn't he have said, "from now on"?
And he also says they will be "limiting" their distribution, rather than "eliminating" distribution.
Ouch... $8.99 here... only thing that pricey is Palo Santo Marron which is worth it IMO.
