dog problem

[RICLARK]

Hey Erik sorry to hear about it, We had the same problem with a Shep we had when I was a kid. The vet diagnosed him with "Rage". We did not have the heart to put him down so we took him to a place here in Lansing called Sher Kar kennels. She takes aggresive dogs and re-trains them for Security work or police work if there hips are ok. If you want to give her a call and see what she thinks I can give you the number tomorrow at the Darkhorse or if you need it sooner I can pm it to you.

 

[Laurel]

I understand that there are some avenues to try new things out, but I wouldn't be willing to TRY things with my other pets and children. If it doesn't work, then you have to worry about the possibility of the dog actually damaging your son, and if it does work, will you ever really trust the dog completely knowing that it has a history of doing that? I think RICLARK's idea is a good one. I hope everything works out for you and him.

 

[the_bird]

I understand that there are some avenues to try new things out, but I wouldn't be willing to TRY things with my other pets and children. If it doesn't work, then you have to worry about the possibility of the dog actually damaging your son, and if it does work, will you ever really trust the dog completely knowing that it has a history of doing that? I think RICLARK's idea is a good one. I hope everything works out for you and him.

+10000. It's one thing to talk about this in THEORY....

 

[budbo]

human child > dog

Matter of Opinion

Sorry to hear about it. I'm sure there is a rescue somewhere that will take him even with his condition

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

Matter of Opinion

Sorry to hear about it. I'm sure there is a rescue somewhere that will take him even with his condition

I hope you forgot the after your 'Matter of opinion statement. If you really think that dog>kids you have a mighty skewed view on the world. And this coming from some who cried like a baby when I put down my dog this year. There is no comparison between a dog and a person, 'specially a small child.

 

[RICLARK]

It's hard enough for him as it is without folks arguing if the dog is more important then a kid. RDWHAHB

 

[blacklab]

Matter of Opinion

Uh...think you're in the minority there, pal. Perhaps you forgot your smiley, big guy.

 

[olllllo]

Stay on topic please.

 

[2nd Street Brewery]

Stay on topic please.

Sorry olllllo, I actually left the thread and passed on but I had to come back to say something. His statement was boarderline trolling in my opinion and I wanted to give him a chance to clarify his statement.

 

[mot]

Wrong wrong wrong

Only one alpha is needed. The dog will not attack another especially human if there is a strong alpha.
Or in this case a mental issue where it is noted and on medicine. Im curious at to what though.

The No-kill shelter is the way to go. A family with no kids and no other dogs would be ideal

its an animla and you cant control it just like you cant control a human, a strong alpha is not gonna do a thing

 

[mot]

I would scrap all this talk about giving the dog a few months...I love dogs dont get me wrong but one slight mistake by the dog and your son could be gone

 

[MikeFlynn74]

I would scrap all this talk about giving the dog a few months...I love dogs dont get me wrong but one slight mistake by the dog and your son could be gone

You sound like this dog is a ruthless killing machine. Its not.

You are 1000 times more likely to be killed in an Auto accident. Yet you are not giving up your car are you?

Get the dog fixed. You wuold be amazed at how well this will change a dogs temperment.

 

[david_42]

Since the meds aren't working, I have to agree putting him down is the best thing to do. I had to do that with a biter my former GF brought home.

No-kill shelters aren't magic. They don't have the people, time, or money to deal with problem dogs. All too often, they fill up with unplacable animals and end up in bankrupcy. Even if they don't, no one wants a known biter, that's on meds, and still bites.

Please save the shelter space for the millions of animals that can be placed.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Any dog that can't learn that EVERY human out ranks it needs to be put down.

Bingo. Put him down. It may not be easy, but if one of my dogs went after one of my kids, I probably wouldn't wait for the vet; I'd get my gun. All love for the dog goes out the window if they attack my kids.

 

[eriktlupus]

he was fixed the first time this happened and placed on meds that didn't do squat. he has an appt. on wed with my vet's mental expert hopefully he can recommend a treatment plan that will work.


it's not an aggression type thing more like a mental imbalance like bi-polar disorder. dog is normally a shy and timid dog that seems to act aggressive out of fear. as long as he's in his safe place(our private bathroom) he's fine with people here, i've had company here for hours and he slept through it with him in there.

 

[reim0027]

I am very sorry to hear that. I am a veterinarian and this type of behavior problem can be very hard to fix. From what you described, this is not a seizure.

I would still recommend consulting with a vet and having him examined. 99% chance this is a behavioral problem, but there is a very small chance there is an underlying disease.

If there is no apparent disease, then you have 2 options IMO. The first is to see a veterinary behavior specialist. Specialists will spend a large amount of time working with you and your dog. They will help you find the trigger and eliminate it or condition your dog to not respond to it.

If that is not an option, then putting him down is the only choice (IMO). That has to be a gutwrenching decision. But what is worse, putting him down, or having him maim your son?

BTW, I did not read every post, so I am sorry if this is a dead topic or if I needlessly repeated what others have said.

 

[mot]

You sound like this dog is a ruthless killing machine. Its not.

You are 1000 times more likely to be killed in an Auto accident. Yet you are not giving up your car are you?

Get the dog fixed. You wuold be amazed at how well this will change a dogs temperment.

haha ok nice comparison

 

[kornkob]

You sound like this dog is a ruthless killing machine. Its not.

You are 1000 times more likely to be killed in an Auto accident. Yet you are not giving up your car are you?

Get the dog fixed. You wuold be amazed at how well this will change a dogs temperment.

He would be getting rid of the car if the brakes intermittently refused to work and the reccomended repair didn't fix it.

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

He would be getting rid of the car if the brakes intermittently refused to work and the reccomended repair didn't fix it.

You just described my car perfectly, but I am still driving it. You just have to be careful, drive slow, know your limits, and piss off the people that insist in driving 10 over the speed limit all the time.

I am glad you are seeing a behaviorist, but as it has been said above, if you are unwilling/unable to make the changes and provide the supervision necessary to ensure the safety of your family, as well as do what is required to make sure your dogs behavior changes for the better, then putting him down may be the best option.

The fact that you are willing to see a behaviorist shows you are willing to work with your dog, and that is ALWAYS a good start

 

[kornkob]

You just described my car perfectly, but I am still driving it. You just have to be careful, drive slow, know your limits, and piss off the people that insist in driving 10 over the speed limit all the time.

Brakes are a primary safety system. Driving a vehicle on public roads with breaks that are not fully functional and reliable is irresponsible and if it isn't criminal it should be.

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

Brakes are a primary safety system. Driving a vehicle on public roads with breaks that are not fully functional and reliable is irresponsible and if it isn't criminal it should be.

They meet all inspection standards so they are perfectly legal, But that doesn't mean that I trust them 100% of the time. Like I said above, I drive slow and careful, brake early, and if I detect that I am not slowing down like I should, I have plenty of room to come to a safe stop and/or evade. A safety system, no mater what it is, what its on, or what is supposed to do should not be trusted, because it CAN and WILL fail at some point of time. Complete and utter trust on a safety system is irresponsible due to the danger you put others in WHEN it fails

Back on topic, just like brakes on ANY vehicle, you cannot trust ANY dog 100% of the time. Like brakes, some dogs you can trust more often, but with the right kind of provocation/under the right circumstances, any dog can and will bite. Learning how to deal with this is the owners responsibility, and if they are unwilling/unable to, then you are right, getting rid of the car/dog is the responsible course of action.

 

[MikeFlynn74]

but with the right kind of provocation/under the right circumstances, any dog can and will bite. Learning how to deal with this is the owners responsibility

Thats exactly my point. Most of you in the thread are acting like this dog is just sitting around waiting to attack. So your easiest answer is to kill it. Go get another. The owner need to spend more time with the dog in 3 areas. Exercise #1, playtime and petting #2, Correct diet #3. But more time needs to be spent with the dog. Too many people get a dog and expect them to be perfect out of the box with little to no work or hardship. Especially working dogs who thrive and grow when worked!

1-2hrs a day is the minimum that should be spent with a dog especially a working breed. Cant do that then get a cat, they sleep 16hrs a day.

 

[JustDave]

Thats exactly my point. Most of you in the thread are acting like this dog is just sitting around waiting to attack. So your easiest answer is to kill it. Go get another. The owner need to spend more time with the dog in 3 areas. Exercise #1, playtime and petting #2, Correct diet #3. But more time needs to be spent with the dog. Too many people get a dog and expect them to be perfect out of the box with little to no work or hardship. Especially working dogs who thrive and grow when worked!

1-2hrs a day is the minimum that should be spent with a dog especially a working breed. Cant do that then get a cat, they sleep 16hrs a day.

I see what you're saying Mike, and that's great advice for the proper relationship with any dog.

But if this isn't a behavioral problem, then no amount of exercise and petting in the world will solve that -- if the wires are getting crossed somewhere, and it's truly a mental problem, then I think that all goes out the window, right?

But what do I know? I'm just going to go back to thinking about beer while I pretend to work

 

[DUCCCC]

Thats exactly my point. Most of you in the thread are acting like this dog is just sitting around waiting to attack. So your easiest answer is to kill it. Go get another. The owner need to spend more time with the dog in 3 areas. Exercise #1, playtime and petting #2, Correct diet #3. But more time needs to be spent with the dog. Too many people get a dog and expect them to be perfect out of the box with little to no work or hardship. Especially working dogs who thrive and grow when worked!

1-2hrs a day is the minimum that should be spent with a dog especially a working breed. Cant do that then get a cat, they sleep 16hrs a day.

This may be a valid argument for some, but in the case of having this dog in the house, around children, and taking into account the size and breed of dog, I totally disagree on any advice to keep the dog. As for not having the dog fixed yet, I'm disappointed with the OP. The whole idea of having bred lines of dogs is to promote positive traits and eliminate negative ones. I know this flies in the face of the modern puppy mill thought to simply crank out a bunch of dogs that look cool, but purebreds have their place. Unprovoked violence and skittishness are definitely negative traits, and the OP not only runs the risk of having his own family injured by this dog, he also could be found negligent and 100% liable if this dog injures someone else. The fact that he has now posted this in a public forum where the information is freely available also makes it that much more likely that if, god forbid, this dogs harms someone the OP won't only be liable, but that his homeowner's insurance, if he carries it, probably has grounds to not cover it.

I stand by my advice to put the dog down. If this is not just a behavior problem, and it's a mental problem the dog should not have the capacity to reproduce, and it should be in the hands of a professional, not a family home.

My two cents, and Mike I don't mean to make an enemy of anyone here on HBT, I just want to point out some serious concerns. I'm a dog owner. I love my dog. I just don't hold my dog's right to exist above my family's. Sorry to the OP and all if I offended you.

 

[the_bird]

As for not having the dog fixed yet, I'm disappointed with the OP...

Point of fact...

he was fixed the first time this happened and placed on meds that didn't do squat. he has an appt. on wed with my vet's mental expert hopefully he can recommend a treatment plan that will work.

 

[DUCCCC]

Point of fact...

My bad, I missed that. I apologize to the OP for my disappointed comment.

 

[Dr_Deathweed]

I see what you're saying Mike, and that's great advice for the proper relationship with any dog.

But if this isn't a behavioral problem, then no amount of exercise and petting in the world will solve that -- if the wires are getting crossed somewhere, and it's truly a mental problem, then I think that all goes out the window, right?

But what do I know? I'm just going to go back to thinking about beer while I pretend to work

99 out of 100 times in this situation the problem is behavioral and not neurological as has been stated by myself and reim0027 (the other vet in this thread) If this happens to be a neurological problem or the OP is not willing to make the effort to make the behavioral changes, the recommendation of euthanasia still stands.

And Ma2brew, the OP did state that he fixed his dog, you were probably confused by the plethora of posts before the OP stated this that recommended fixing him. Other than that I agree 110% with your post.


I think this topic is... well for lack of a better term... beating a dead horse. Until we get an update from the OP on what his vet/behaviorist says, I think all topics have been covered.

eriktlupus, best of luck to you and Spike, and lets hope this story has a happy ending

 

[eriktlupus]

okay just got back from the vet(who raises shepard's). diagnoses is that spike has a fear/aggression hardwired. recommended treatment is 8wk on amitryptylline and a visit to a behavoirist with a followup visit to vet in 3-4wks.
also reccomended reading "culture clash" and obedience ttraining for the family.



also the child in question is 16 yrs

 

[RICLARK]

okay just got back from the vet(who raises shepard's). diagnoses is that spike has a fear/aggression hardwired. recommended treatment is 8wk on amitryptylline and a visit to a behavoirist with a followup visit to vet in 3-4wks.
also reccomended reading "culture clash" and obedience ttraining for the family.



also the child in question is 16 yrs

Well that is some good news Erik. Glad everything is gonna work out.

 

[freyguy]

Great job Erik.