Does lager recipe for non-lager work?

[Cro Magnon]

I don't have the equipment to lager or cold ferment. I was wondering if I just used pilsner malt (maaaybe add a bit off crystal), and a pinch of saaz, and use an ale yeast like s-04 and ferment at 18 - 22C, what will I end up with?

 

[AzOr]

I think you’d end up with a tasty beer nonetheless.
IME lager yeast will take the fg a couple points lower but if you’re not happy with outcome you can play with some of the brewing enzymes to lower your fg even more than ale yeast can.
I’ve heard people say that notty yeast at the lower end of temps can produce a really clean beer.

 

[AzOr]

Also search some of the warm fermented lager threads on this forum.

 

[jrgtr42]

I've done this with a couple beers. Last one was a Schwarzbier recipe, I don't have the facilities for lagering, so I used German Ale yeast (Imperial Yeast's G03 Dieter.) It's officially a Kolsch yeast, so I figured it would work well and it did - really tasty beer.

 

[Dland]

I agree, the beer should be fine. If you can keep it around 18C, US-05 would be a good choice too. If you want it to have even more lager like finish, after it is carbed, cold crash and let it sit for a couple of weeks at around freezing, 0C, 32F.

 

[BrewAgain]

If you can get some Omega lutra kveik, it ferments very clean when at the low temp end. I used it as a fake Mexican lager. Came out clean. It was a slow ferment but is a crowd pleaser.

 

[Cro Magnon]

I think you’d end up with a tasty beer nonetheless.
IME lager yeast will take the fg a couple points lower but if you’re not happy with outcome you can play with some of the brewing enzymes to lower your fg even more than ale yeast can.
I’ve heard people say that notty yeast at the lower end of temps can produce a really clean beer.

Hmmm interesting...thanks for the tip about enzymes. I might just try it as an experiment to see if it's a drinkable beer. I've checked out some of the warm ferment threads but thing is...a lot of them end up lagering anyway. If I could skip that process altogether it would be gold.

 

[wepeeler]

Check out Imperial Dieter yeast. You can ferment at ale temps (62-65F) and get a very clean, crisp beer. I've used it numerous times for my Kolsch and it's AMAZING.

 

[jrgtr42]

Check out Imperial Dieter yeast. You can ferment at ale temps (62-65F) and get a very clean, crisp beer. I've used it numerous times for my Kolsch and it's AMAZING.

I used that for my Schwartzbier and it came out great.

 

[Cro Magnon]

Check out Imperial Dieter yeast. You can ferment at ale temps (62-65F) and get a very clean, crisp beer. I've used it numerous times for my Kolsch and it's AMAZING.

Great thanks for the suggestion...turns out we don't get it here... Anyway commonly available substitute?

 

[GrogNerd]

Devils Backbone Brewing in Nelson County, VA uses pilsner as a base for ALL their beer.

their award-winning Vienna Lager is top-notch & their 8-point IPA is one of my first favorite IPAs

 

[tieflyer]

How about cry havoc Charlie pap..... u know who used it in his recipes.

 

[tieflyer]

it is now called WLP1983 Charlie's Fist Bump Yeast
Charlie Papazian uses it in his books "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing," "The Homebrewer’s Companion," and "Microbrewed Adventures"

 

[Cro Magnon]

Devils Backbone Brewing in Nelson County, VA uses pilsner as a base for ALL their beer.

their award-winning Vienna Lager is top-notch & their 8-point IPA is one of my first favorite IPAs

woh.....gotta check them out!

 

[Cro Magnon]

it is now called WLP1983 Charlie's Fist Bump Yeast
Charlie Papazian uses it in his books "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing," "The Homebrewer’s Companion," and "Microbrewed Adventures"

Gotta check this out too! Still haven't read it! Don't get WLP here either

 

[Grand Lake Brewer]

I don't have the equipment to lager or cold ferment. I was wondering if I just used pilsner malt (maaaybe add a bit off crystal), and a pinch of saaz, and use an ale yeast like s-04 and ferment at 18 - 22C, what will I end up with?

I ferment German Pilsners at these temps using Saflager W-34/70 with great results consistently. I do cold crash for about 3 to 4 days before I transfer to serving keg. I'll probably catch some grief for this but check out Brulosophy.com, they have done many (exbeeriments) using lager yeast at warmer temps. I've improve the quality of my beer 10 fold following some of their results.

 

[Beermeister32]

It will work just make sure to do a 90 minute boil if using pilsner malt.

 

[wepeeler]

Great thanks for the suggestion...turns out we don't get it here... Anyway commonly available substitute?

I've used wyeast 2565 for the Kolsch, but I was not nearly as happy. You can still ferment it cold, and people love it. Clean, no diacetyl.

 

[Cro Magnon]

@Grand Lake Brewer You mean you regularly make lagers just brewing them like a normal ale? I guess I could manage a cold crash with an ice bath....if I can avoid the long drawn out lagering process then this sounds awesome....I can pretty much make lagers without a dedicated fridge. Will defo check out the brulosophy exbeeriments. Thanks!

@Beermeister32 Thanks for the tip! Didn't know this....any reason for the 90 min boil for pilsner?

@wepeeler Unfortunately don't get wyeast either. Only fermentis strains....thanks though...interesting point to note for kolschs..

 

[Beermeister32]

SMM / DMS precursor reduction, so your beer doesn't take on that cabbage soup taste...

 

[Cro Magnon]

SMM / DMS precursor reduction, so your beer doesn't take on that cabbage soup taste...

Ahh got it. I was wondering....can I do the lagering in the bottles? i.e. basically treat the bottle conditioning as lagering, after adding the priming? So basiscally, ferment at 18C, bottle with priming, and then put in the fridge for 30 days or more. Or is this not the same? What different effect will this have or not have that lagering will?

 

[Beermeister32]

Always better to lager in a keg. I like 3 months before bottling, but you can lager in bottles after several weeks carbing. Put them away for a few months at 34F and go brew another batch to get your mind off of them. Build your pipeline!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Always better to lager in a keg. I like 3 months before bottling, but you can lager in bottles after several weeks carbing. Put them away for a few months at 34F and go brew another batch to get your mind off of them. Build your pipeline!

That's great to know, thanks for the info! Def gonna try it....Gonna go build that pipeline now

 

[GBRbrew]

I just brewed up an oktoberfest last weekend, I can't lager so i used us-05 because it a pretty clean yeast, fermenting at 66 we'll see how it turns out

 

[Cro Magnon]

I just brewed up an oktoberfest last weekend, I can't lager so i used us-05 because it a pretty clean yeast, fermenting at 66 we'll see how it turns out

Wow...I' dying to know how it turns out... Post your results here when it is!

 

[Beermeister32]

Aletoberfest...!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Aletoberfest...!

Glad you didn't say 'oktoberfale'!

 

[Immocles]

+1 to bottle lagering. I do it pretty often.

 

[GBRbrew]

Wow...I' dying to know how it turns out... Post your results here when it is!

Will do, it'll be at least a month but I'll post how it turns out.

 

[Cro Magnon]

+1 to bottle lagering. I do it pretty often.

Would love to know more about your process!

 

[Immocles]

Hah, this just came up in another thread a couple day ago

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/lager-bottling.683336/
My example there uses a lager yeast, but my go-to for pseudo/hybrid lager is wyeast 1007. I know you mentioned only have access to fermentis, and there’s a guy on the forum with a great spreadsheet for cross referencing yeasts, but I’m at work and it’s saved on my MacBook. I’ll try to remember to link it after work.
Anyways, I’d ferment with a nice clean ale yeast, bottle carbonate as usual, and then cold condition in the fridge for a good handful of weeks. That’s all lagering really is—Extended cold condition. I crack a bottle after two weeks of carbing and if I’m happy with it, to the beer fridge it goes.

 

[Cro Magnon]

Hah, this just came up in another thread a couple day ago

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/lager-bottling.683336/
My example there uses a lager yeast, but my go-to for pseudo/hybrid lager is wyeast 1007. I know you mentioned only have access to fermentis, and there’s a guy on the forum with a great spreadsheet for cross referencing yeasts, but I’m at work and it’s saved on my MacBook. I’ll try to remember to link it after work.
Anyways, I’d ferment with a nice clean ale yeast, bottle carbonate as usual, and then cold condition in the fridge for a good handful of weeks. That’s all lagering really is—Extended cold condition. I crack a bottle after two weeks of carbing and if I’m happy with it, to the beer fridge it goes.

Thanks! That really simplifies it a lot....I was really confused with all the cold crashing, lagering etc. I might just try doing a bottle lager with a regular ale yeast. (Dunno how you can classify the beer the comes out, but hey, if it tastes good, I don't mind even calling it the 'gourmetdogpoo' lagerale.
That spreadsheet sounds gold as well! Thanks a bunch..if you do remember at some point, would be very grateful

 

[Immocles]

Well, it’ll still be an ale. Of course you can lager an ale, but to get that true lager feeling, it requires a good lager yeast.

but it’ll still be tasty!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Well, it’ll still be an ale. Of course you can lager an ale, but to get that true lager feeling, it requires a good lager yeast.

but it’ll still be tasty!

Tasty is what I'm going for!

 

[Immocles]

Here is the spreadsheet I was talking about. I use it to find similar strains for my extremely limited inventory LHBS. It's some handy work by @dmtaylor

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit#gid=1846233287

 

[Cro Magnon]

Here is the spreadsheet I was talking about. I use it to find similar strains for my extremely limited inventory LHBS. It's some handy work by @dmtaylor

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit#gid=1846233287

Wow thanks a mill! This will really help me....very limited variety of strains available to me.

 

[GBRbrew]

Ok so here's my aletoberfest with us 05 not quite as clear as I was hoping for but not bad for a ale, super malty the 05 really let's the flavor shine through i will back off a little on the grain bill next time as I over shot my og also abv is 6.8% so the smaller bill should get me closer next time. Still I'm happy with it I MADE BEER lol


Cheers!!!

 

[Beermeister32]

Great job! Prost!

 

[Cro Magnon]

Ok so here's my aletoberfest with us 05 not quite as clear as I was hoping for but not bad for a ale, super malty the 05 really let's the flavor shine through i will back off a little on the grain bill next time as I over shot my og also abv is 6.8% so the smaller bill should get me closer next time. Still I'm happy with it I MADE BEER lol


Cheers!!!View attachment 703142

Wow looks great! Really nice amber colour. What's your grain bill? Hops?

 

[GBRbrew]

41% Pilsner 2row German
31% Munich malt German
20% Vienna malt German
8% Carmel/crystal 80l
Mash at 151 60 min
1.5oz hallertau mittelfrueh at 60min
.5oz at 20 min

5 gallon batch

Cheers!!