Does it all depend on the yeast?

[Tactical-Brewer]

So, sorry if this is a moronic question...

Does the attenuation of your beer solely depend on the type of yeast you use or the amount of yeast you use, or does the actual grain bill come into play as well?

On all of my beers so far, every single one of them have had a pretty thick mouthfeel and a "sweetness" to them.

I understand, mash at a lower temp for the types of sugars that's easily digestible for the yeast, thus making a "dryer" beer, and vice versa for the long chained sugar molecules for the "maltier" beer.

Question is, I usually mash all of my beers, except for this latest one I mashed at 150, at 154 and like I said above they all seem to be very sweet to me with a thick/heavy mouthfeel.

They've all tasted decent, but definitely nothing you'd want to drink 6+ of in a sitting just cause they taste very sweet and heavy.

I've used SF04 primarily, and doing this, Hopefully dryer/crisper, beer with SF05.

Now, I've never "roused" the yeast, but they've all been "finished" fermenting (I presume), when I bottled them. I've never had any bottle bombs (knock on wood). But I don't know if my FG would have dropped a few points if mid ferment I would have roused the yeast. *It should be noted, I generally leave my beer in the fermentor at the very minimum 3 weeks, usually 4.

So, does it all play a factor? Should I have pitched 2 packets of yeast as opposed to 1 for more fermentation?

I made a Newcastle clone, while good, still had a lot thicker/heavier mouthfeel than if I were to go out and buy a Newcastle. So, Maybe I'm just an idiot and this is a simple search away, if so, I greatly apologize.

Also noted, I will be using starters and liquid yeast (Well, my washed yeast) from here on out. Maybe that will help?

Thanks,
Tac

 

[atom]

yes the grain bill matters...lots of crystal/non-fermentables will add to body and sweetness. what have your FGs been?

want a bone dry beer...use only base malt, mash low, use a sugar addition (5%ish) and a highly attenuating yeast.

 

[Tactical-Brewer]

yes the grain bill matters...lots of crystal/non-fermentables will add to body and sweetness. what have your FGs been?

want a bone dry beer...use only base malt, mash low, use a sugar addition (5%ish) and a highly attenuating yeast.

Usually in the high teens, low 20s.

I don't mind a bit of sweetness and mouthfeel, but not when it's over the top.

Most of them usually dry out a bit as they condition and get better to drink thank goodness though.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

If I was to make a list in order of importance.

1. Yeast, pitch rate, freshness, strain of yeast
2. Grain bill recipe and percentage of simple sugars
3. Mash Temp

I've had plenty of beers I mashed at 158-160F that still finished low and dry. I've also had beers with lots of crystal malts and non-fermentables that finished lowish (1.010-1.013). I've had a saison with 8oz of honey malt and 1lb of oats that still finished crisp and dry even with a high mash temp, and a double decoction mash schedule.

If you are using a yeast that doesn't have high attenuation, simple sugars will help drive fermentation, and even if it still finishes high above 1.015 the sugars increase alcohol without leaving dextrines behind so itll still end up on the dry side without achieving the magical "dry" numbers. Your Newcastle clone could probably handle 4-6oz of sugar, or even lyle's golden syrup (since that's still 99% fermentable).

It's been my experience that mash temp has the smallest impact on finishing gravity, grain bill in second because even with high specialty malt percents sugar and yeast strain can still drive FG down.

 

[Tactical-Brewer]

Ok, awesome. I am excited to see how much yeast starters and having a healthy amount of yeast to pitch will affect my brews.

 

[mattdee1]

As standard practice, I brew 10gal batches that are split between two buckets and fermented with 2 different yeasts. This is fun because at the end you may end up with 2 beers that are so distinct from one another that they might as well be completely different recipes.

That includes final gravity; I split a milk stout between Nottingham and Windsor and the Nottingham finished at 1.018 or so, while the Windsor was up over 1.030. Both beers are great, and honestly, the Windsor one isn't nearly as sweet as I was expecting.

As for rousing the yeast, that seems like something that is simple enough to try in an attempt to get a bit more attenuation, but probably won't do anything in most situations other than add oxygen to your wort.

Same with pitching more yeast in an attempt to "finish" a fermentation to match some expectation on FG. If you've got a big blob of yeast in your fermentor and it's not doing anything, why would adding another packet help? Chances are, the yeast have reached their alcohol tolerance and shut down, so another packet will do nothing. You can try some other kind of yeast, but that type of tactic is a bit too "willy nilly" for my comfort level. I'd just roll with what I get (within reason) but YMMV.

 

[kh54s10]

Actually, yeast selection, recipe, mash temperature, fermentation temperature among other things will have an effect on the FG of your beer.

In order of things to look at, IMO, are thermometer calibration (so you are sure you are mashing at the right temperature), proper yeast pitching and making sure the recipe is not one that will create a sweet malty beer if that is not what you want.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Same with pitching more yeast in an attempt to "finish" a fermentation to match some expectation on FG. If you've got a big blob of yeast in your fermentor and it's not doing anything, why would adding another packet help? Chances are, the yeast have reached their alcohol tolerance and shut down, so another packet will do nothing. You can try some other kind of yeast, but that type of tactic is a bit too "willy nilly" for my comfort level. I'd just roll with what I get (within reason) but YMMV.

I've found this to be generally true. I've tried adding additional yeast to beers that weren't finishing the way I've wanted. The only time I've noticed it made a difference was when I added monster yeasts like Belle Saison or 3711 French Saison yeasts that can ferment tungsten.

Rousing can work and you can avoid aerating your beer if you are very gentle, and if theres a decent layer of CO2 in the head space you should be ok, though I reserve this practice only for English strains since they always give me problems. Rousing with a tiny bit of invert syrup works wonders though.

 

[Calder]

Recipe (s).

High teens and low 20s is high for basic recipes.

 

[jabba11]

If you are trying to dry out a beer to max for a particular strain especially a high gravity beer I would add to whats been said here...oxygenation and use of servomyces

 

[SpentBrains]

Same with pitching more yeast . . . You can try some other kind of yeast, but that type of tactic is a bit too "willy nilly" for my comfort level. I'd just roll with what I get (within reason) but YMMV.

Fantastic post, except that here I would add that several "on the move", leading edge, avant-garde, in yo' face, commercial brewers, are now using a secondary strain, usually a high attenuation - minimal flavor imparting champagne yeast for finishing and bottle conditioning.

Not willy nilly by my admittedly reckless sanitation standards. The particular company I am thinking of and it's owner & proponent of the process, is by any measure, one of the word's most knowledgable yeast enthusiasts currently alive. Think Louis Pasture reincarnated.

 

[Natdavis777]

I think a number of factors come into play. I make a lot of beers with 002/1968 and 007 (imperial 002). 002 tends to flake out early (I can get it to 78%) but leaves a great profile. American strains can easily drop you to where you want to go.

So for beers I use 002 with, I mash low, with some dextrin malt to account for the lower attenuation. If I were using 007 or 001, Id mash a bit higher without dextrin. I am basing my mash around my yeast. Once you know your yeast characteristics, you can alter your mash to meet different body styles (IE 155 w/ 1056 =150=1968...)

 

[505-Brewer]

Most new brewers use too much crystal malt in my opinion which can lead to the beer being sweet. As said above, it all matters - including fermentation temp and your ability to control it properly. Also calibrate your thermometer against a standard. Most cheap thermometers are not very accurate. Your 154 could be 158 for example.

 

[specharka]

IME, yeast attenuation is the result of a number of factors. If I was struggling with beers finishing with high gravities, yeast strain selection would be one of the last places I looked.

I'm surprised nobody has touched on the impact of temperature control in attenuation. Without proper temperature control, you risk allowing the yeast to stall before all of the available sugars are consumed. This is especially important if you pitch yeast to warm wort (>65F) and allow the temperature to plummet following high krausen. Yeast viability and pitch rate are important factors, but IME temperature control can absolutely dominate in terms of attenuation. Ask anyone who's ever brewed a Belgian (especially WY3724 / WY3787)...temperature reigns supreme.

Another consideration I haven't seen mentioned is oxygenation of wort. If your beer has low amounts of dissolved oxygen, the yeast won't be able to build healthy cell walls and fermentation will suffer as a result. I believe brulosopher did an experiment on this one:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/19/wort-aeration-pt-3-nothing-vs-pure-oxygen-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Tactical-Brewer]

Very awesome info!

 

[lhommedieu]

I only have experience with British ales but I hope that the following is helpful:

A FG between the high teens and low 20's is too high. You're looking for an FG in the low teens. I aim for an FG of 1.011 for British ales, although that is, admittedly, sometimes hard to achieve.

It's best to use a starter and calculate how much starter is appropriate for your beer. Depending upon the yeast, fermenting towards the higher limit of its temperature range may cause the yeast to work faster - but can also result in fruity esters that accentuate the sweetness of the beer. You'll find a balance in there somewhere.

I find that above that above 10% of Crystal 60, my beers tend to get too sweet (at least for me). I usually use about 7.5% Crystal and 92.5% Marris Otter.

Try step-mashing and adjust your pH to accommodate both Beta and Alpha. For example, an hour at pH 5.3 at 144 F and an hour at 155F followed by a mash-out is a good baseline approach. This will provide a good supply of fermentable sugars in the wort, and you can play with cutting down the time for the second, Alpha rest. I wouldn't go below 30 minutes for the second rest, though.