Does anything here look out of place in a saison?

[catdaddy66]

Grain bill:

8# Belgian pilsner malt
1# Munich malt
1# Belgian biscuit malt
8oz Honey malt
4oz Carapils
4oz Acidulated malt

Hop schedule:

.5oz Northern Brewer (5.3% aa) FWH
1oz Cluster (7.4% aa) @ 20 min
1oz Saaz (2.8% aa) @ 5 min
1oz Saaz (2.8% aa) @ 0 min

Yeast: 1250ml slurry of Belle Saison

Mash schedule: 60 min @ 148°; then sparge 15 min @ 168°. Collect 7.25 gal of wort. Boil 90 minutes, cool then pitch. Ferment no lower than room temp (72°- 80°)

(abv% 5.5/srm 7/ibu 27)

 

[thehaze]

If you are looking for a clean Saison, then Biscuit, Honey and Carapils are kinda out of place. I would keep Pilsner, Munich and Acidulated ( I assume it's there for lowering the pH of the mash ).

If you want more complexity in your grain bill, you can either go with Biscuit or Honey Malt, although never tried myself and would not know how they will contribue.

IBUs seem a bit high. Maybe keep them in the 15-20. I found out that Saisons are better left with lower IBUs, or at least that how I like them.

 

[Gravity]

Saisons are meant to be simple and not all over the place with the grain bill and hops.

I would do the Pilsener and Munich and maybe a touch of the biscuit if that , the rest I would drop. Hops look fine. This is personal preference of course

 

[IslandLizard]

What they said ^

How old and thick is that slurry? 1.25 liter of a thick, even pourable slurry is way, way, way too much.

 

[andrewbrews]

My opinion is that nothing is out of place but in aggregate it seems a little muddied. I personally like biscuit in my saison (along with some wheat and oats), and I've seen recipes with the other malts in there as well. This seems like it is going a couple different directions.

I think the Saaz hops look good. I like my IBU right about where you have it.

I feel like Saison is a style that you can play with quite a bit. It's more about what are you hoping to taste and/or highlight. That said, I would think about what you are hoping for in an end product with respect to the malt. Could be great though!

 

[Gravity]

Ummmm...oats?...no

I agree with the experimental part and of course personal preference

 

[jodell]

Carapils is a little out of place.

Carapils adds more body to your beer, saisons are usually very dry. A lot of people add table sugar to help with that

 

[catdaddy66]

Thanks for all of the replies! I have brewed about a half dozen saison recipes and it is one of my favorite styles.

I agree that the grist is a bit muddled. I was trying to use some of my stock that has accumulated recently, especially the biscuit malt (it's been burning a hole in my fridge!). The carapils was to aid in head retention though I realize caramel malts are not typical. My bad on the word "slurry", I meant starter. My app doesn't give me a choice of words and it popped in slurry.

Should I drop the honey malt and just use honey to help the gravity and dry it out a bit?

Thanks again for all of your help, guys!

 

[jodell]

Duplicate post

 

[jodell]

Should I drop the honey malt and just use honey to help the gravity and dry it out a bit?

Thanks again for all of your help, guys!

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd add the honey when fermentation slows down. Leaves more honey flavor, plus it prevents the yeast from binging early.

Unless you have a saved slurry of Belle Saison to make a starter from, a sachet of dry yeast only needs to be properly rehydrated right before pitching.

 

[catdaddy66]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes

Done deal!

Going to the lhbs after I get home from work. This will be brewed Sunday.

 

[secondbase]

I think the IBU you have are great.

 

[carloslavin]

I agree with the one that said it might be muddied, especially by the biscuit and honey malt. I'd choose one of those and drop the other. Don't see an issue with malty saison, but the biscuit and honey each give a distinctive character that you might miss if combining them. I'd keep the biscuit, had a belgian pale (I know it's not a saison) with plenty biscuit and loved the belgian+malty profile.

Carapils might also not be needed, but can't see 4oz affecting anything (just one more grain to add that is more expensive than base).

Also agree with the ones saying that's too much slurry. I use about 1 cup thick-ish slurry (the part that settles below the beer when you save it and put it in the fridge) and always get happy fermentations.

 

[catdaddy66]

I agree with the one that said it might be muddied, especially by the biscuit and honey malt. I'd choose one of those and drop the other. Don't see an issue with malty saison, but the biscuit and honey each give a distinctive character that you might miss if combining them. I'd keep the biscuit, had a belgian pale (I know it's not a saison) with plenty biscuit and loved the belgian+malty profile.

Carapils might also not be needed, but can't see 4oz affecting anything (just one more grain to add that is more expensive than base).

Also agree with the ones saying that's too much slurry. I use about 1 cup thick-ish slurry (the part that settles below the beer when you save it and put it in the fridge) and always get happy fermentations.

Thanks for the feedback! I am dropping the honey malt and will be adding regular honey late in the primary.

Again, use of the word "slurry" was an oversight on my part. I never EVER use slurries in my beers as I always build starters from harvested yeast. I should have said a 1250ml starter instead of slurry. Typically I build up a starter to 1.75 or 2L and save about 500ml for future use.

 

[catdaddy66]

I dropped the honey malt and will use Golden candi syrup in its place. I have it doughed in and mashing as I type this. Let's hope for the best.

 

[JordanKnudson]

I think the adjustments you made are good -- I love candi syrup in my saisons.

I'm just going to jump in here and give a general piece of information (of which you may or may not already be aware). Remember that honey malt is a type of crystal malt and contributes significant residual sugars and sweetness, and it must be treated as such. When formulating a recipe, you have to decide whether that is a good or bad thing for the beer. In a saison, I'd say it almost always works against you, since you want a very dry final product. On the other hand, it is fantastic in something like a session beer for giving some desired fullness that might otherwise be lacking. Obviously the amount ultimately determines how significant an impact it has, but don't underestimate honey malt's potency, or you're liable to end up with something pretty overwhelming.

Hope your brew day goes smoothly and the recipe turns out great!

 

[catdaddy66]

Just admiring 5 gal of saison wort soon to have multitudes of yeast cells gorging on it! Nailed my pre boil gravity at 1.046 but I will wait to add the candi sugar til day 5-7 in the primary.

 

[JordanKnudson]

Awesome, man! Definitely look forward to hearing how it turns out!

 

[catdaddy66]

My OG was 1.055 which is not taking into account the added candi sugar I will add in a week. How is that value added or accounted for in the OG? I know it dries out the beer and contributes to higher abv%, but how is that calculated?

Just curious...