Does anyone use table sugar for brewing?

[Art2019]

Considering price of corn sugar & malt, I'm thinking of using table sugar for my next extract ale to boost my og. The extract is expected to be 1.051 og & want to bring it up to, at least 1.06.

Some say table sugar will thin brew & you won't get the body needed for a nice beer head since it'll die off quickly & others say go for it, it makes no difference. I will be kegging & have, on ocassions added about a half cup but noticed no difference after kegging to serve.

 

[Willy]

Considering price of corn sugar & malt, I'm thinking of using table sugar for my next ale to boost my og. The extract is expected to be 1.051 og & want to bring it up to, at least 1.06.

Some say table sugar will thin brew & you won't get the body needed for a nice beer head since it'll die off quickly & others say go for it, it makes no difference. I will be kegging & have, on ocassions added about a half cup but noticed no difference after kegging to serve.

For my taste buds .... If I add sugar, I go with demerera sugar (from Mauritius Islands, East Coast of Africa). Dog Fish Head Brewers also find it delicious. It is. And it adds to the beers complexity in positive ways.

Generic refined sugar is basically flavorless so the alcohol produced just makes the beer taste more "alcoholy" for lack of a better term. Of all the sugars available - refined white sugar is way down the list - in my experience anyway. YMMV.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Does anyone use table sugar for brewing?

Many craft brewers will use simple sugars when making DIPAs - but there's more to DIPA recipe design than taking an IPA recipe and adding sugar.

Considering price of corn sugar & malt, I'm thinking of using table sugar for my next ale to boost my og. The extract is expected to be 1.051 og & want to bring it up to, at least 1.06.

Assuming an "all-grain" recipe, a 10 pt change in OG by adding table sugar (ABV from 5.25% to 6.5% assuming a FG of 10), without any other recipe adjustments, may be a noticeable change. Might be a good change. Might be a not so good change. eta: I rarely use sugar in my "normal" and "imperial" strength ales.

Assuming a DME/LME recipe, using 5% to 10% sugar in place of the same amount of DME/LME is a common technique for enhancing the overall fermentability of the wort. I've found that I can go higher (15%) without encountering "cidery" flavors that seem to have been a concern decades ago.

 

[Art2019]

I'm doing Extract.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm doing Extract.

I'll assume you are brewing with DME for this reply.

Consider finding a OG 60 recipe that you like, then substitute some (10%?) sugar for a matching amount of DME. This will lower the FG by a couple of points (recipe software can provide the details), but probably not enough to matter.

With regard to DME pricing, there appears to be a pattern where "national" (or well known) online stores tend to have meaningfully higher prices than "regional" (or lesser known) online stores. Shipping costs (distance between you and the store) are also a consideration; so I can't answer that "which store has the best prices for DME" for most people reading this reply.

If you can mention what region / state you are in, others may share when they are getting DME from online stores in your area.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I use a fair bit of sugar(s) in my all-grain brewery, it's a handy tool to help you fine tune your beer's mouthfeel and finish. Can table sugar thin a beer's body? Certainly. Like any ingredient, you have to use it in an appropriate quantity in an appropriate application.

I'll argue that table sugar is especially useful for extract brewers because it provides the brewer with the opportunity to "tighten up" a beer's finish with 5% table sugar, or nudge the beer toward a drier finish with around 10% table sugar. I understand that extract has become vastly improved since I last used it a few decades ago. Nevertheless, whenever I provide assistance to starting extract brewers and convince them to use 5-10% table sugar the feedback is always positive because it allows them some control over their beer's finish. "It tastes less homebrewy," is a common remark.

You'll want to tailor your use of table sugar to the recipe. A wheat beer grist that only uses wheat extract is a good candidate for 5%. An American Brown Ale that really leans into the C-malts would be an appropriate candidate for something closer to 10%. Also, consider the weather. During the summer you might want to use a bit more sugar to tighten up the beer's finish and make it more crushable during the summer months. I used table sugar in an Australian Sparkling Ale this summer for exactly this reason. In contrast, you might want a January beer to be a bit rounder, even a bit flabby. In that case, you might want to omit the sugar entirely. Last, your gravity plays a big role in the appropriate amount of sugar to use: 10% sugar in a 1.042 Blonde Ale is going to play very differently than 10% sugar in a 1.078 Imperial Red IPA with lots of C-malts.

Unfortunately, like all things homebrewing, it comes down to starting out small and iterating your way toward something that fits your personal tastes, but I don't think you can go wrong by starting at 5%.

Since you're concerned about the cost of malt and adjuncts such as rice and corn (and who isn't?!), you might want to consider making your own invert sugars. Here's a great thread on making invert. It's pretty simple and it's a cheap. All you'll need is citric acid (less than ten bucks for a lifetime supply), some Ball Jars, a sauce pan/pasta pot, and an accurate thermometer. You likely have most of that stuff already. The nice thing about invert is that it doesn't just manipulate a beer's mouthfeel, it also adds pleasant flavors of its own. It's good stuff and it's cheap.

I hope you found this useful.

 

[fluketamer]

when i bottle my ciders i use table sugar.
when i make juice wines i always use table sugar,.

 

[Art2019]

I use a fair bit of sugar(s) in my all-grain brewery, it's a handy tool to help you fine tune your beer's mouthfeel and finish. Can table sugar thin a beer's body? Certainly. Like any ingredient, you have to use it in an appropriate quantity in an appropriate application.

I'll argue that table sugar is especially useful for extract brewers because it provides the brewer with the opportunity to "tighten up" a beer's finish with 5% table sugar, or nudge the beer toward a drier finish with around 10% table sugar. I understand that extract has become vastly improved since I last used it a few decades ago. Nevertheless, whenever I provide assistance to starting extract brewers and convince them to use 5-10% table sugar the feedback is always positive because it allows them some control over their beer's finish. "It tastes less homebrewy," is a common remark.

You'll want to tailor your use of table sugar to the recipe. A wheat beer grist that only uses wheat extract is a good candidate for 5%. An American Brown Ale that really leans into the C-malts would be an appropriate candidate for something closer to 10%. Also, consider the weather. During the summer you might want to use a bit more sugar to tighten up the beer's finish and make it more crushable during the summer months. I used table sugar in an Australian Sparkling Ale this summer for exactly this reason. In contrast, you might want a January beer to be a bit rounder, even a bit flabby. In that case, you might want to omit the sugar entirely. Last, your gravity plays a big role in the appropriate amount of sugar to use: 10% sugar in a 1.042 Blonde Ale is going to play very differently than 10% sugar in a 1.078 Imperial Red IPA with lots of C-malts.

Unfortunately, like all things homebrewing, it comes down to starting out small and iterating your way toward something that fits your personal tastes, but I don't think you can go wrong by starting at 5%.

Since you're concerned about the cost of malt and adjuncts such as rice and corn (and who isn't?!), you might want to consider making your own invert sugars. Here's a great thread on making invert. It's pretty simple and it's a cheap. All you'll need is citric acid (less than ten bucks for a lifetime supply), some Ball Jars, a sauce pan/pasta pot, and an accurate thermometer. You likely have most of that stuff already. The nice thing about invert is that it doesn't just manipulate a beer's mouthfeel, it also adds pleasant flavors of its own. It's good stuff and it's cheap.

I hope you found this useful.

You mentioned percentages ".......but I don't think you can go wrong by starting at 5%.". Can you enlighten me what percentages you refer to (percent of what)? I am only extract brewing until I'm comfortable my processes are refined from my bad habits over the years.
I'm going to brew Hefeweizen which is a 5% abv extract so I would like to bump this up a bit. I usually enjoy brews with a bit of a kick.

 

[d40dave]

I only have used sugar to carbonate my bottled beer. I used to used corn sugar but swithced to table sugar and didn't notice a difference exept for price.

 

[Bramling Cross]

You mentioned percentages ".......but I don't think you can go wrong by starting at 5%.". Can you enlighten me what percentages you refer to (percent of what)? I am only extract brewing until I'm comfortable my processes are refined from my bad habits over the years.
I'm going to brew Hefeweizen which is a 5% abv extract so I would like to bump this up a bit. I usually enjoy brews with a bit of a kick.

Nuts! I'm sorry about the confusion.

When I write 5% I mean 5% of your total grist/amount of fermentable goods.

To illustrate this, I tossed together an extract recipe in Beersmith for a stout-ish thing at 6.5gals,* then re-sized the same batch to 3.5gals. Notice that the weight of each ingredient has decreased in the 3.5gal recipe, but if you look to the column to the right of the ingredient name, named "%/IBU" the percentages have stayed the same and both recipes' gravity remains at 1.067 (although I stupidly cropped that out of both photos, so you're going to have to trust me). So that's why we tend to talk in terms of percentages. A person that brews 10gal batches can easily and accurately speak to a person that brews 3gal or 5,000gal recipes by speaking in terms of percentages.

6.5gal @ 1.067

3.5gal @ 1.067

Turning to your second question, about using sugar to goose the gravity on a Hefeweizen, that's a style where table sugar will struggle a bit because you're likely not adding much in the way of anything other than wheat extract. Assuming you're brewing 5gal batches, 8oz will dry the finish a bit. A full pound will certainly dry the finish more, but it'll start getting close to the point where it starts reducing the body of a beer. I would start at 8ozs and assess the beer.

If you're really wanting to goose the gravity, look at Belgian breers. They're infamous for having more that a bit of a kick and they rely on various simple or cooked sugars to provide a lot of that kick while still remaining very guzzle-able.


* Don't brew this!!!! It's just something that I slapped together for this demonstration. Absolutely zero thought went into this recipe, it would be dreadful!

 

[Rish]

Would it be correct to say that if you are using a total 5# mixture of dme and table sugar in an all extract brew, 5% table sugar would be 4.75# dme and .25# table sugar or do you have to take in to account to PPE of the fermentables?

 

[Art2019]

Nuts! I'm sorry about the confusion.

When I write 5% I mean 5% of your total grist/amount of fermentable goods.

To illustrate this, I tossed together an extract recipe in Beersmith for a stout-ish thing at 6.5gals,* then re-sized the same batch to 3.5gals. Notice that the weight of each ingredient has decreased in the 3.5gal recipe, but if you look to the column to the right of the ingredient name, named "%/IBU" the percentages have stayed the same and both recipes' gravity remains at 1.067 (although I stupidly cropped that out of both photos, so you're going to have to trust me). So that's why we tend to talk in terms of percentages. A person that brews 10gal batches can easily and accurately speak to a person that brews 3gal or 5,000gal recipes by speaking in terms of percentages.

6.5gal @ 1.067
View attachment 857269

3.5gal @ 1.067
View attachment 857270

Turning to your second question, about using sugar to goose the gravity on a Hefeweizen, that's a style where table sugar will struggle a bit because you're likely not adding much in the way of anything other than wheat extract. Assuming you're brewing 5gal batches, 8oz will dry the finish a bit. A full pound will certainly dry the finish more, but it'll start getting close to the point where it starts reducing the body of a beer. I would start at 8ozs and assess the beer.

If you're really wanting to goose the gravity, look at Belgian breers. They're infamous for having more that a bit of a kick and they rely on various simple or cooked sugars to provide a lot of that kick while still remaining very guzzle-able.


* Don't brew this!!!! It's just something that I slapped together for this demonstration. Absolutely zero thought went into this recipe, it would be dreadful!

I'll try a Belgian beer next. I already have my Hefeweizen kit. Thanks

 

[Bramling Cross]

Would it be correct to say that if you are using a total 5# mixture of dme and table sugar in an all extract brew, 5% table sugar would be 4.75# dme and .25# table sugar or do you have to take in to account to PPE of the fermentables?

Hey, Rish!

I'm going to gallantly punt the football on this and let those that know better provide you a proper answer.

The term "PPE" isn't ringing a bell, but I get the feeling you're talking about gravity points--ie, 2-row is ~1.035/lb, sucrose is ~1.038/lb, that kinda thing? I hope I have that right. Frankly, it's been decades since I sat down with a spiral ring notebook, a pencil, and an HP calculator to bang things out like that. Once I figured out that ProMash would do the points/lb calculations for me I hung up my spiral ring notebooks. Then I eventually moved on to Beersmith.

With that in mind, I will suggest that while our software is able to simulate our beers to a high degree of precision, that precision is ultimately based on assumptions that the author(s) have made about brewing materials that have a demonstrable drift in their characteristics from year to year. The plumpness or protein content of malt can vary from crop to crop, as can the acid concentrations of hops, etc. As a result, I sometimes chuckle a bit to myself when I see folks that very obviously only ever brewed with software get worked up about stuff that ultimately is little more than a rounding error.

You and I have more than a few batches under our belts, so we have a (for want of a better term) "intuition" for how certain ingredients work. For example, you know honey malt waaaaaay better than I do and you're likely comfortable writing a recipe and saying, "6oz is about right." I have a lot of experience with sugar, so I can sorta ballpark my way into sugar additions and usually get it right. Not all the time, though. But I do get it right the second time.

This is a wholly unsatisfactory answer, hence my decision to punt the football. I just don't think about brewing that way anymore. Sorry about the crap answer!

 

[Art2019]

Hey, Rish!

I'm going to gallantly punt the football on this and let those that know better provide you a proper answer.

The term "PPE" isn't ringing a bell, but I get the feeling you're talking about gravity points--ie, 2-row is ~1.035/lb, sucrose is ~1.038/lb, that kinda thing? I hope I have that right. Frankly, it's been decades since I sat down with a spiral ring notebook, a pencil, and an HP calculator to bang things out like that. Once I figured out that ProMash would do the points/lb calculations for me I hung up my spiral ring notebooks. Then I eventually moved on to Beersmith.

With that in mind, I will suggest that while our software is able to simulate our beers to a high degree of precision, that precision is ultimately based on assumptions that the author(s) have made about brewing materials that have a demonstrable drift in their characteristics from year to year. The plumpness or protein content of malt can vary from crop to crop, as can the acid concentrations of hops, etc. As a result, I sometimes chuckle a bit to myself when I see folks that very obviously only ever brewed with software get worked up about stuff that ultimately is little more than a rounding error.

You and I have more than a few batches under our belts, so we have a (for want of a better term) "intuition" for how certain ingredients work. For example, you know honey malt waaaaaay better than I do and you're likely comfortable writing a recipe and saying, "6oz is about right." I have a lot of experience with sugar, so I can sorta ballpark my way into sugar additions and usually get it right. Not all the time, though. But I do get it right the second time.

This is a wholly unsatisfactory answer, hence my decision to punt the football. I just don't think about brewing that way anymore. Sorry about the crap answer!

A lot of exerience with sugar & I really have none & don't brew all grain, yet. I want to get my extracts outmof the way, first.
You said 6 oz of sugar, bit with Hefeweizen alone with adding sugar? It's only 5 abv & looking for more.

 

[Rish]

term "PPE"

Ha! I have a work history in industrial safety and maybe a little senility so I used PPE (personal protective equipment) when I meant PPG (points per gallon) of fermentables.
I really appreciate your response and was just thinking about how the OP would go about calculating % of grist of table sugar in an all extract brew. Probably using Beersmith or other software would be the simplest solution.

 

[doug293cz]

Would it be correct to say that if you are using a total 5# mixture of dme and table sugar in an all extract brew, 5% table sugar would be 4.75# dme and .25# table sugar or do you have to take in to account to PPE of the fermentables?

To be rigorous, you should take into account the gravity potential of the components if using all grain, but with DME typically having a potential of ~44 pts/lb and table sugar 46 pts/lb, it's not going to make much difference if the sugar percentage is 20% or less of the total fermentables.

Brew on

 

[Rish]

To be rigorous, you should take into account the gravity potential of the components if using all grain, but with DME typically having a potential of ~44 pts/lb and table sugar 46 pts/lb, it's not going to make much difference if the sugar percentage is 20% or less of the total fermentables.

Brew on

Thanks for the clarification. I think you're right. Probably undectable with dme vs. table sugar.

 

[Bramling Cross]

A lot of exerience with sugar & I really have none & don't brew all grain, yet. I want to get my extracts outmof the way, first.
You said 6 oz of sugar, bit with Hefeweizen alone with adding sugar? It's only 5 abv & looking for more.

Again, I'm sorry about the confusion, Art2019. Disregard the exchange between Rish and myself, we're buddies and we were having an Inside Baseball kinda discussion about the gory details of brewing.

Something that I've been negligent about is the volume you're brewing. To this point, I've assumed you're making a 5gal batch. Is that correct? If so, I think you'll find a half pound of table sugar will dry your finish a bit without boosting your gravity very much. A full pound will increase your gravity a bit and it'll slightly erode the silky mouthfeel that is characteristic of a Hefe.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, a Hefe isn't a great candidate for boosting your gravity with sugar. You can certainly do it, but it'll start to thin out and become less Hefe-like as you add more sugar.

Again, I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Ha! I have a work history in industrial safety and maybe a little senility so I used PPE (personal protective equipment) when I meant PPG (points per gallon) of fermentables.
I really appreciate your response and was just thinking about how the OP would go about calculating % of grist of table sugar in an all extract brew. Probably using Beersmith or other software would be the simplest solution.

Please ignore this post, Art2019!

Aw, hell, I've been there man! When I switched from working on cars to guitars it took me years to stop calling the guitars cars. It drove me nuts!

You're not alone in trying to figure that out. During my second response, where I put up the Beersmith pictures and explained why we talk about recipes in terms of percentages, I found myself thinking, "How in the hell did I ever used to figure this stuff out?!" Then I remembered Ray Daniels' PPG tables, the spiral ringed notebooks, and the calculators. You're right, software is the answer...even if it rests on the shaky foundation of the author's assumptions.

 

[Art2019]

Again, I'm sorry about the confusion, Art2019. Disregard the exchange between Rish and myself, we're buddies and we were having an Inside Baseball kinda discussion about the gory details of brewing.

Something that I've been negligent about is the volume you're brewing. To this point, I've assumed you're making a 5gal batch. Is that correct? If so, I think you'll find a half pound of table sugar will dry your finish a bit without boosting your gravity very much. A full pound will increase your gravity a bit and it'll slightly erode the silky mouthfeel that is characteristic of a Hefe.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, a Hefe isn't a great candidate for boosting your gravity with sugar. You can certainly do it, but it'll start to thin out and become less Hefe-like as you add more sugar.

Again, I apologize for the confusion.

Thanks. Yeah, I'm doing a 5 gal batch since it seems easier this way. Thanks for the advice, didn't know Hefes would be negatively affected. I've been brewing extract for almost 10 yrs & thought the flavor was always different from commercial brews. When I moved, I didn't brew for a couple yrs & really started thinking something was wrong. Did 2 clones & compared with comercial and was definately off flavor. Now I'm finding out what I did wrong.
1) fermented what I thought was fermenting temp (in my house at 72F) but learned, brew temp increases during fermentation which means brew was too warm while fermenting.
2) if fermentation wasn't vigorus enough (no bubbles in airlock) after 2 days, I opened fermenter to notice activity. Definate NO NO.
3) I noticed evap during end of process so after I emptied trub ball, I added back liquid lost, up to 5 gal mark. Another No No for adding liquid PLUS oxygenation.
4) Was told i shouldn't open transfer, but have also heard that careful transfer wouldn't affect contamination too much. I'm on fence with closed transfer.
You all have been doing this for a long while from what I'm understanding. What do you think from above? I'm fixing 1-3. Not sure about 4.

 

[jerrylotto]

Under acidic conditions table sugar (sucrose) breaks down (inverts) to its monosaccharide components fructose and glucose so there's really not much of a difference using it.

 

[Art2019]

Someone here said not to use sugar due Hefe since too much would ruin the body & flavor.

 

[jerrylotto]

Someone here said not to use sugar due Hefe since too much would ruin the body & flavor.

Depends on quantity used and style brewed. There's nothing wrong with using sugar to raise your gravity a couple of points.

 

[ba-brewer]

If you invert your table sugar the glucose may help enhance the production of esters, which cold be a good thing if you want more banana in your hefe.

I used to use corn sugar(glucose) for adding to beers but with the elevated cost lately I switched to home made invert sugar to save a little money so I indirectly use table sugar. I use it mostly in English ales that I want to help ester production.

 

[jerrylotto]

If you invert your table sugar the glucose may help enhance the production of esters, which cold be a good thing if you want more banana in your hefe.

I used to use corn sugar(glucose) for adding to beers but with the elevated cost lately I switched to home made invert sugar to save a little money so I indirectly use table sugar. I use it mostly in English ales that I want to help ester production.

Technically, the term "dextrose" is used to describe the monosaccharide when used in food production, "glucose" is used to refer to it in medical usage aka blood

 

[mabrungard]

I recently brewed a Saison and used table sugar with no detrimental effect. The beer scored 36 in the Indiana Brewers Cup.

 

[MaxStout]

Ordinary table sugar can be a brewer's secret weapon. As OP is looking to save a little $, it can cut costs while adding a desirable facet to the brew. The PPG is very close to that of extract, so one can use sugar to extend fermentables. Within reason.

And as @Bramling Cross pointed out, you can invert sugar to add even more dimensions. Just sugar, water, a little citric acid or cream of tartar, and time, and you can cook up some neat additives with varying flavor profiles and colors.

I might mention that many Belgian brewers have long used table sugar in their brews. Check out Brew Like A Monk. You really don't need expensive candi sugars when you can use the stuff from the supermarket for the same effect.

 

[Art2019]

Ordinary table sugar can be a brewer's secret weapon. As OP is looking to save a little $, it can cut costs while adding a desirable facet to the brew. The PPG is very close to that of extract, so one can use sugar to extend fermentables. Within reason.

And as @Bramling Cross pointed out, you can invert sugar to add even more dimensions. Just sugar, water, a little citric acid or cream of tartar, and time, and you can cook up some neat additives with varying flavor profiles and colors.

I might mention that many Belgian brewers have long used table sugar in their brews. Check out Brew Like A Monk. You really don't need expensive candi sugars when you can use the stuff from the supermarket for the same effect.

I found over a lb of light dme extract & used it for my Hefe. Went from 1.05 to 1.085. Unsure how this will turn out & hoping it's not going to be too sweet with my wp-06.